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Ziktofel / Archipelago

Archipelago Multi-Game Randomizer and Server
https://archipelago.gg
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Stalwart Nerfed state #267

Open Ziktofel opened 1 month ago

Ziktofel commented 1 month ago 
          Checked the basic unit list, they're only a basic unit for advanced tactics. At that tactics level, I expect a player to know how to use terrain to get good wall-offs and unit positioning, and they should already be using that to deal with lings using stalwarts/immortals. I could see an argument for stalwart vs marine to be significantly impacted, but I think it's better to let the beta testers have at it and provide feedback.

Originally posted by @MatthewMarinets in https://github.com/Ziktofel/Archipelago/issues/266#issuecomment-2267176456

266 Creates a Stalwart nerfed state of Stalwarts with only 2 attack range. That unit could get too bad. An alternative was suggested there instead of nerf getting an upgrade that behaves like a Dragoon Trillic that enables shield regen during combat

Ziktofel commented 1 month ago

From Nokatrax on Discord: https://discord.com/channels/731205301247803413/1154164338769268859/1269438219804475453

the immortal model is almost 2 range thick wide by itself, even two rows firing are probably going to involve a fair bit of the backrow shuffling around, especially when fighting against non-melee-range units. For comparison, roaches have twice the range at 4.

Additionally this makes them unusable highly inconvenient in armies that contain other low-range units like archons (range 3) or even adepts (range 4); even manoeuvring to let zealots through to charge will most likely lead to immense downtime in damage.

I'm not entirely against low-range immortals, but 2 range feels like it's trading 'have a nice tank' for 'this thing will always need to be micro'ed only to die'

The only other range 2 unit is the baseline firebat; and that one already feels borderline unplayable without the range upgrade even though the hitbox of it is a lot smaller.

I haven't actually played with it in ap, only a few tests in the editor, so it might not be like this in an actual run, but man does 2 range feel bad.

Solely based on playing around with it in the editor I don't think I would build these without their range upgrade so that they at least don't require constant micro to keep shooting at roaches