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ab9st8 / minimal-friction

Original VCV Rack module collection
GNU General Public License v3.0
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I see inputs on Terminal and departures and arrivals, where is the mixed output? #4

Open Cubistguitar opened 6 months ago

Cubistguitar commented 6 months ago

Maybe I don't understand, but I thought this would have a mixed output. I only see a main input and loop connections, no output. Please advise.

ab9st8 commented 6 months ago

There are no mixed outputs per se. This was originally a design choice but now that I think about it I may have to add them cause there really seems to be no way to get the delayed-only signal. Thanks for the heads-up and I'll look into it.

ab9st8 commented 6 months ago

Or maybe I misread you, Deparures always contain the original input signal "mixed in with" the respective Arrival input delayed and attenuated, so they are "mixed outputs" in a way. What I meant was there is no actual way to get the signal that is "in the path between an Arrival and a Departure".

Cubistguitar commented 6 months ago

Thanks for your response. I guess the departure always has the feedback line present, and I need another mixer to combine the three loop signals together. I suppose I thought about processing in a typical way, Like I want to add some chorus and delay and another channel has reverb and distortion and then the third pitchshifted filtered tones that I could sort of mix or swap as I dream. It just seemed laid out like the signal went input> loop out>process> loop in and then goes nowhere, but the return loop in is always added to the loop out jack, which may be extreme for some processors, so I will gain down to maintain something usable. I think the mixed output of all three would be very interesting.The three delay lines combined would be very cool musically.

On Tue, May 14, 2024 at 12:04 AM ab9st8 @.***> wrote:

Or maybe I misread you, Deparures always contain the original input signal "mixed in with" the respective Arrival input delayed and attenuated, so they are "mixed outputs" in a way. What I meant was there is no actual way to get the signal that is "in the path between an Arrival and a Departure".

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ab9st8 commented 6 months ago

Alright I'll lay out the ways I've interpreted your comment and you can pick out which one you actually mean you wish were there because I'm not sure I understand you 100% clearly:

  1. You want one big stereo output which would contain a mix of all 3 channels, each attenuated by some corresponding "level" knob/fader,
  2. You want to be able to have "pre-"gain before each Departure, i.e. decide how much the input signal is attenuated before going out a Departure
  3. You want a "wet-only" output for each channel (the delayed and attenuated Arrival, or in other words the signal as it is "in-between an Arrival and a Departure").

You're free to pick all three, just let me know what you meant and I'll think if/how to implement that. If I'm being honest I would dismiss 1. because there's so many mixer/summer modules out there already and I'm not sure how practical it would be to stick three more knobs and 6 (one for level modulation of each channel + two for stereo output) more ports into an already kind of large module for it to do what you can just do with another module whose use in VCV Rack is costless.

Obviously you can counter that by saying Terminal is already doing what you can do with a couple of VCAs and "signal delay" modules but it would be somewhat complex and a feedback loop is a musical concept well defined enough that I think it should have a neat little module dedicated to it. Anyway I think it has potential to sound cool and I'm definitely going to expand Terminal and Kanon and others in the future.

Just so it's clear I'm super grateful for your feedback, I appreciate it a ton because other people might run into design issues I haven't encountered / conceived of in my own usage. Your worries about the outputs are 100% justified and I just wanna clarify what you meant.

Cubistguitar commented 6 months ago

I guess I didn’t completely know what I meant, but after some thought adding #3 would give folks the most sound design options. And some way to appreciate that the loop send also has the loop return mixed with it, because one can’t really get that from just looking at the unit. It looks incomplete because it has an input and nothing labeled output. You don’t have to remedy that but some way to identify the departure also includes arrivals signal, or I will not the be the only one confused. I have been using pro audio gear for 35 years, nothing in my experience works like this exactly, but that is why it could be quite cool. Sent from my iPhoneOn May 14, 2024, at 2:31 PM, ab9st8 @.***> wrote: Alright I'll lay out the ways I've interpreted your comment and you can pick out which one you actually mean you wish were there because I'm not sure I understand you 100% clearly:

You want one big stereo output which would contain a mix of all 3 channels, each attenuated by some corresponding "level" knob/fader, You want to be able to have "pre-"gain before each Departure, i.e. decide how much the input signal is attenuated before going out a Departure You want a "wet-only" output for each channel (the delayed and attenuated Arrival, or in other words the signal as it is "in-between an Arrival and a Departure").

You're free to pick all three, just let me know what you meant and I'll think if/how to implement that. If I'm being honest I would dismiss 1. because there's so many mixer/summer modules out there already and I'm not sure how practical it would be to stick three more knobs and 6 (one for level modulation of each channel + two for stereo output) more ports into an already kind of large module for it to do what you can just do with another module whose use in VCV Rack is costless. Obviously you can counter that by saying Terminal is already doing what you can do with a couple of VCAs and "signal delay" modules but it would be somewhat complex and a feedback loop is a musical concept well defined enough that I think it should have a neat little module dedicated to it. Anyway I think it has potential to sound cool and I'm definitely going to expand Terminal and Kanon and others in the future. Just so it's clear I'm super grateful for your feedback, I appreciate it a ton because other people might run into design issues I haven't encountered / conceived of in my own usage. Your worries about the outputs are 100% justified and I just wanna clarify what you meant.

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