profile=hiking-mountain routes over way with foot=no

vincentius63 commented 1 year ago

Hi,

http://www.brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=16/49.4824/8.4732/osm-mapnik-german_style&lonlats=8.469056,49.480667;8.466704,49.47854&profile=hiking-mountain

brouter-web routes through the "Tunnelstraße". This way is currently set with access foot=no because of construction works https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/114399554#map=17/49.47835/8.46851

Most bike profiles do it right: http://www.brouter.de/brouter-web/#map=16/49.4824/8.4732/osm-mapnik-german_style&lonlats=8.469056,49.480667;8.466704,49.47854

Best regards Vinzenz

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

It belongs rather here: https://github.com/poutnikl/Brouter-profiles/issues

Most bikes do not ride on sidewalks.

I have noticed I have set foot access right, but then decided if there is no footaccess but is there bikeaccess, it falls back to be allowed with penalty 4, being taken, if the detour is 5x times longer.

While it affect all foot profiles, it is rather funny you have used hiking mountain profile for city walking.

quaelnix commented 1 year ago

@poutnikl, the problem is the issidewalk logic.

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

Yes, but that is tricky, as foot=no applies on the main road, while there is a sidewalk.

If I set it to deny foot access, it could cause regression of denying access for all roads with no foot access, where footways/paweways/sidewalks are not mapped as an independent OSM highway=*, but are mapped as the main road feature sidewalk=left|right|both|yes

So the profile rather correctly follows "OSM reality" which incorrectly follows "real reality".

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

@poutnikl, the problem is the issidewalk logic.

Hmm, you seem right.

as workaround until profiles are fixed, you can modify and manually upload the profile to the BRouter server

with modification assign issidewalk and not foot=no sidewalk=left|right|both|yes

instead of original assign issidewalk sidewalk=left|right|both|yes

quaelnix commented 1 year ago

I would suggest that we don't fix this bug because, as you said, it would very likely do more harm than good.

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

I quite agree with you. there will be always false positives (routing via denied roads) and false negatives (avoiding available roads). One then has to evaluate pros and cons of "allow/deny always". For one correctly denied pass, there can be multiple incorrectly denied passes.

Very little seriously, a mountain hiker cannot be deterred by denied passage More seriously, I am for respecting laws and directions, obviously.

vincentius63 commented 1 year ago

While it affect all foot profiles, it is rather funny you have used hiking mountain profile for city walking.

It's the only walking profile in brouter-web. Because of that I used this as this issue came up in https://community.openstreetmap.org/t/fussgangerrouting-trotz-foot-no/101846

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

I see. I seldom use Brouter web, usually only for convenient profile testing during development of my profile templates, or using my own uploaded profiles.

Note that all my foot profiles are based on the single template so all behave the same way here.

There is suspicion that denying access for proerly tagged foot=no for road under construction will deny access for road in properly tagged foot=no with denied access for walking on the main road only, while there are sidewalking structures.

Bike profiles do not have this issue for obvious reasons.

quaelnix commented 1 year ago

@poutnikl, what if we would replace:

or issidewalk

with:

or and issidewalk not access=no

This would likely almost exclusively affect ways that are closed for construction.

quaelnix commented 1 year ago

Unfortunately it's not that simple. To make it really work, we would need something ugly like this:

or and issidewalk not ( and access=no and ( or bicycle= bicycle=no ) and ( or motor_vehicle= motor_vehicle=no ) and ( or bus= bus=no ) ( or psv= psv=no ) )

This would fix ~ 90 % of all the cases in europe: https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/1ymG

Here are some more test cases:

poutnikl commented 1 year ago

Or
assign issidewalk   if  (sidewalk=left|right|both|yes) 
   then ( not ( and access=no
                     and ( or bicycle= bicycle=no ) 
                     and ( or motor_vehicle= motor_vehicle=no ) 
                     and ( or bus= bus=no ) 
                           ( or psv= psv=no ) 
                      )
           ) 
   else false

vincentius63 commented 1 year ago

Thank you for your great work. I feared that it was not easy.

Best regards

abrensch / brouter

profile=hiking-mountain routes over way with foot=no #604