Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements?

[apekshajha]

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

[creighton]

you mean: http://adlnet.gov/expapi/verbs/progressed

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 2:26 AM apekshajha notifications@github.com wrote:

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAIEAXXKYBLPJDMPXI26UVLRU45CDANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ .

[aaronesilvers]

One recommendation I’d make to achieve what you’re looking to do in a more interoperable way is to borrow from the video profile.

Played segments is an extension of an xAPI Statement used to record any named or identified parts, or “segments” played in the audio or video, listed in chronological order (regardless of play order). Played segments will likely be included in statements related to pausing, completion, or termination of video and audio.

The played-segments value is used for computing progress and completion. The kind of info which can be used to generate a heat map of consumption for a given audio or video content.

Instructions: When referencing the segments played from a video in an xAPI Statement, it MUST set https://w3id.org/xapi/video/extensions/played-segments to a STRING of the value of the time into the video for each played segment, expressed in seconds and milliseconds (e.g. “0.000[.]12.000[,]14.000[.]21.000[,]18.000[.]30.000”).

I’d propose doing something similar. I don’t think it needs a new verb. It needs this extension without the requirement that the string values represent time. IMHO

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From: apekshajha notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 2:26:42 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJMVMICVA7NWEQWCYORHFDRU45CFANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ.

[aaronesilvers]

Indeed per Tom - progressed + an extension to capture and recall the progress info should do the trick nicely

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From: Aaron Silvers aaron.silvers@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:41:11 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec reply@reply.github.com; adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

One recommendation I’d make to achieve what you’re looking to do in a more interoperable way is to borrow from the video profile.

Played segments is an extension of an xAPI Statement used to record any named or identified parts, or “segments” played in the audio or video, listed in chronological order (regardless of play order). Played segments will likely be included in statements related to pausing, completion, or termination of video and audio.

The played-segments value is used for computing progress and completion. The kind of info which can be used to generate a heat map of consumption for a given audio or video content.

Instructions: When referencing the segments played from a video in an xAPI Statement, it MUST set https://w3id.org/xapi/video/extensions/played-segments to a STRING of the value of the time into the video for each played segment, expressed in seconds and milliseconds (e.g. “0.000[.]12.000[,]14.000[.]21.000[,]18.000[.]30.000”).

I’d propose doing something similar. I don’t think it needs a new verb. It needs this extension without the requirement that the string values represent time. IMHO

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

---

From: apekshajha notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 2:26:42 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJMVMICVA7NWEQWCYORHFDRU45CFANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ.

[creighton]

Another option, try the SCORM profile's way: https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-SCORM-Profile/blob/master/xapi-scorm-profile.md#progress-measure

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:43 AM Aaron E. Silvers notifications@github.com wrote:

Indeed per Tom - progressed + an extension to capture and recall the progress info should do the trick nicely

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

---

From: Aaron Silvers aaron.silvers@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:41:11 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec reply@reply.github.com; adlnet/xAPI-Spec < xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com> Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

One recommendation I’d make to achieve what you’re looking to do in a more interoperable way is to borrow from the video profile.

Played segments is an extension of an xAPI Statement used to record any named or identified parts, or “segments” played in the audio or video, listed in chronological order (regardless of play order). Played segments will likely be included in statements related to pausing, completion, or termination of video and audio.

The played-segments value is used for computing progress and completion. The kind of info which can be used to generate a heat map of consumption for a given audio or video content.

Instructions: When referencing the segments played from a video in an xAPI Statement, it MUST set https://w3id.org/xapi/video/extensions/played-segments to a STRING of the value of the time into the video for each played segment, expressed in seconds and milliseconds (e.g. “0.000[.]12.000[,]14.000[.]21.000[,]18.000[.]30.000”).

I’d propose doing something similar. I don’t think it needs a new verb. It needs this extension without the requirement that the string values represent time. IMHO

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

---

From: apekshajha notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 2:26:42 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub< https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095>, or unsubscribe< https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJMVMICVA7NWEQWCYORHFDRU45CFANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ

.

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[aaronesilvers]

And voila

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From: tom creighton notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:47:55 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Aaron E. Silvers aaron.silvers@gmail.com; Comment comment@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

Another option, try the SCORM profile's way: https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-SCORM-Profile/blob/master/xapi-scorm-profile.md#progress-measure

On Thu, Jun 4, 2020 at 8:43 AM Aaron E. Silvers notifications@github.com wrote:

Indeed per Tom - progressed + an extension to capture and recall the progress info should do the trick nicely

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

---

From: Aaron Silvers aaron.silvers@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 8:41:11 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec reply@reply.github.com; adlnet/xAPI-Spec < xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com> Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

One recommendation I’d make to achieve what you’re looking to do in a more interoperable way is to borrow from the video profile.

Played segments is an extension of an xAPI Statement used to record any named or identified parts, or “segments” played in the audio or video, listed in chronological order (regardless of play order). Played segments will likely be included in statements related to pausing, completion, or termination of video and audio.

The played-segments value is used for computing progress and completion. The kind of info which can be used to generate a heat map of consumption for a given audio or video content.

Instructions: When referencing the segments played from a video in an xAPI Statement, it MUST set https://w3id.org/xapi/video/extensions/played-segments to a STRING of the value of the time into the video for each played segment, expressed in seconds and milliseconds (e.g. “0.000[.]12.000[,]14.000[.]21.000[,]18.000[.]30.000”).

I’d propose doing something similar. I don’t think it needs a new verb. It needs this extension without the requirement that the string values represent time. IMHO

Get Outlook for iOShttps://aka.ms/o0ukef

---

From: apekshajha notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, June 4, 2020 2:26:42 AM To: adlnet/xAPI-Spec xAPI-Spec@noreply.github.com Cc: Subscribed subscribed@noreply.github.com Subject: [adlnet/xAPI-Spec] Why don't we have predefined verb for posting intermediate progress statement for xAPI statements? (#1095)

SumTotal is an LMS which has integrated with many content providers and import their content in our LMS. We are using xAPI to interact with the content providers to exchange details like start , completion and the score of the content. Our customers also want us to capture the intermediate progress for content Proposed Solution: Have a standardized verb like 'Completed' to capture the intermediate progress percentage for content so that every provider do not define their own extension to capture the same

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub< https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095>, or unsubscribe< https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJMVMICVA7NWEQWCYORHFDRU45CFANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ

.

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[apekshajha]

In this scenario, content is played in a different environment and the data is captured in a third-party environment. Data is being communicated between two systems through the xAPI statements.

[jono-poltrack]

Hi there. What Tom mentions above should work for you. He wasn't suggesting to use SCORM -- he was suggesting the xAPI SCORM Profile way of doing things, which is xAPI. There is a small para and an example of how to handle a certain amount of progress using the http://adlnet.gov/expapi/verbs/progressed verb and result.score.scaled to indicate the progression.
You could also coin an extension as Aaron mentioned for this measure, but if it is 0-100 (or 0 to 1 actually), this approach would work just fine

[apekshajha]

As majority of the LMSs depend on "result" node to identify the Completion status for a course, instead of depending on verbs or extensions, is it possible to standardize structure of "result" to have a placeholder for "Progress%"

[brianjmiller]

FWIW cmi5 as a profile handles progress, score, and completion as well as the session mechanics (launched, initialized, terminated). It is a lighter weight specification than the ADL SCORM Profile (since it doesn't attempt to hit SCORM parity), see https://github.com/AICC/CMI-5_Spec_Current/blob/quartz/cmi5_spec.md#9551-progress and also provides for standardized packages, launch process, and typically better security on authentication than the original Tin Can launch guidelines.

[aaronesilvers]

Which is why at Elsevier, we’ve begun to use cmi5 and xAPI for all new clinical solutions elearning content products :)

-a-

On Jun 12, 2020, at 5:21 PM, Brian J. Miller notifications@github.com wrote:

FWIW cmi5 as a profile handles progress, score, and completion as well as the session mechanics (launched, initialized, terminated). It is a lighter weight specification than the ADL SCORM Profile (since it doesn't attempt to hit SCORM parity), see https://github.com/AICC/CMI-5_Spec_Current/blob/quartz/cmi5_spec.md#9551-progress https://github.com/AICC/CMI-5_Spec_Current/blob/quartz/cmi5_spec.md#9551-progress and also provides for standardized packages, launch process, and typically better security on authentication than the original Tin Can launch guidelines.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/adlnet/xAPI-Spec/issues/1095#issuecomment-643488351, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAJMVMIM4DXZWKJTMEKP2J3RWKL6XANCNFSM4NSKCJFQ.

[garemoko]

+1 for using cmi5

[brianjmiller]

As majority of the LMSs depend on "result" node to identify the Completion status for a course, instead of depending on verbs or extensions, is it possible to standardize structure of "result" to have a placeholder for "Progress%"

First, to be clear, it is possible, but I would offer it is unlikely. For a number of reasons:

• Leveraging the result.completion property to identify "Completion" is also arguably a wrong interpretation of the xAPI specification's use of said property (in so far as you can infer semantic meaning of such outside of a use case within a specific profile at all) because it breaks the intention of a statement as being an isolated piece of data. result.completion should indicate that the thing marked by this statement is completed, not necessarily that the experience or even the object is completed. To derive that type of semantic meaning you would need a profile that has defined it as such, and based on work done on cmi5 and other profiles the concept of "completion of an experience of an object" is better codified using a verb indicating such rather than solely relying on the result object for any given single statement.
• Adding a defined property like this to an existing xAPI object (such as Result) is a breaking change and could only be considered in the context of a major version bump of the specification. It is the reason why extensions were added into the objects defined in the specification to begin with, because there was no way to anticipate what additional pieces of information might be needing to be captured in a statement.
• The concept of "progress" is very difficult to define itself, even within a profile such as cmi5 it was a difficult thing to nail down. "Progress" in a statement result for instance would indicate "progress" towards a goal for a given statement? object? experience? registration? etc. The concept of "progress" was originally in the Tin Can API 0.9 specification (as an inProgress property which was boolean in nature) and was intentionally removed because it proved to be to problematic to keep.
• It is difficult to claim that the "majority of LMSs" do anything, but if you restrict that to only LMSs that have an xAPI implementation then it might hold true, but xAPI isn't really intended to be framed for the LMS use case. As a communication and data protocol (only) it has seen adoption well beyond the LMS, so catering to that specific concept is outside of the scope of this specification and is better catered to in something like cmi5 which is intentionally developed for the LMS use case.

(Note: these are largely my opinions and/or interpretations. The existence of inProgress in the 0.9 specification is about the only fact above.)