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Source Han Serif | 思源宋体 | 思源宋體 | 思源宋體 香港 | 源ノ明朝 | 본명조
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Adjustment suggestion to HK/TW's ⿰⺼ component #128

Open tamcy opened 2 years ago

tamcy commented 2 years ago

Preface

This issue is about the component component(⺼), specifically about the placement of the two strokes in the middle, i.e. component-middle(冫) in Source Han Serif v2.000.

The component is a variant form of the radical 肉.

For CN/JP/KR, ⺼ is amost always written as 月 when placed on the left/right or bottom of the glyph. For TW and HK, the two horizontal strokes become "冫" when it is on the left. When placed at the right or bottom, TW still uses the "冫" form, while HK glyphs are written like 月.

region-diff

This issue is focused on the "⺼(⿴⺆冫)" form adopted by TW and HK, and affects only with the composition ⿰⺼, like 肥, 俷, 蜰 or 葋. ⺼ on the right (like 胡) and at the bottom (like 胃, 骨, 肖) are not affected.

The problem

For most (if not all) of the characters with the composition ⿰⺼, the placement of the two middle strokes 冫 seems always too high.

When I tried to use Source Han Serif to typeset a document, the placement of 冫 somewhat surprised me - I immediately thought "wait, isn't it a bit too high"?

I then check the glyphs having ⺼ on the left and found this is not an isolated case. Here are some examples that the middle strokes are obviously too "high" to my eyes. You may also look at the character 肋 above .

high_examples

I did an extremely rough calculation. For the horizontal version 月, the height of the three whitespace is about 1 : 1 : 1.5. For the TW/HK version ⺼, I measured the heights of the left and right side of the whitespace area and took the average, and the ratio is about 1 : 1 : 1.95. Obviously there is too much whitespace at the bottom. I'm not good at maths so just take it as a grain of salt. But practically, the glyph looks more "natural" to me when I shifted the two middle strokes 冫 downwards (and it seems a little more space could be assigned to the middle whitespace).

adjusted_form

So I'd like to suggest revisiting the characters with with the structure ⿰⺼, and make adjustments to the placement to the strokes of 冫 where neccessary. I am illustrating the issue using only the ExtraLight master, but I suggest to also review the Heavy master glyphs.

Other notes

As said, this issue doesn't apply to characters with ⺼ on the right. An example is 湖 (U+6E56). While I think the horizontal placement of the middle component 冫 (esp. the dot) could be further optimized, the vertical placement of 冫 looks fine to me:

ok-compare

The reason is easy to tell when comparing the vertical placement of the 冫 component of the TW glyph (black) against the two horizontal strokes of the JP glyph (green):

compare

This may serve as a modification reference if you decide to tackle this issue (just the vertical spacing, not the horizontal placement).

Affected codepoints

Click to see the list of affected codepoints and glyphs: | # | Codepoint | Character | TW | HK | --- | --------- | --------- | ---------- | ---------- | 1 | U+3B39 | 㬹 | | uni3B39-HK | 2 | U+43D9 | 䏙 | | uni43D9-HK | 3 | U+43DF | 䏟 | | uni43DF-HK | 4 | U+43F0 | 䏰 | | uni43F0-HK | 5 | U+43F2 | 䏲 | | uni43F2-HK | 6 | U+4401 | 䐁 | | uni4401-HK | 7 | U+4402 | 䐂 | | uni4402-HK | 8 | U+4413 | 䐓 | | uni4413-HK | 9 | U+4425 | 䐥 | | uni4425-HK | 10 | U+442D | 䐭 | | uni442D-HK | 11 | U+4FF7 | 俷 | uni4FF7-TW | | 12 | U+6721 | 朡 | uni6721-TW | uni6721-HK | 13 | U+6DDD | 淝 | uni6DDD-TW | | 14 | U+7B4B | 筋 | uni7B4B-TW | | 15 | U+808A | 肊 | uni808A-TW | | 16 | U+808B | 肋 | uni808B-TW | | 17 | U+808C | 肌 | uni808C-TW | | 18 | U+8090 | 肐 | uni8090-TW | | 19 | U+8092 | 肒 | uni8092-TW | | 20 | U+8095 | 肕 | uni8095-TW | | 21 | U+8098 | 肘 | uni8098-TW | | 22 | U+809A | 肚 | uni809A-TW | | 23 | U+809B | 肛 | uni809B-TW | | 24 | U+809C | 肜 | uni809C-TW | | 25 | U+809D | 肝 | uni809D-TW | | 26 | U+809F | 肟 | | uni809F-HK | 27 | U+80A1 | 股 | uni80A1-TW | | 28 | U+80A2 | 肢 | uni80A2-TW | | 29 | U+80A3 | 肣 | uni80A3-TW | | 30 | U+80A5 | 肥 | uni80A5-TW | | 31 | U+80A7 | 肧 | | uni80A7-HK | 32 | U+80AA | 肪 | uni80AA-TW | | 33 | U+80AB | 肫 | uni80AB-TW | | 34 | U+80AD | 肭 | uni80AD-TW | | 35 | U+80AE | 肮 | uni80AE-TW | | 36 | U+80B1 | 肱 | uni80B1-TW | | 37 | U+80B5 | 肵 | uni80B5-TW | | 38 | U+80B6 | 肶 | | uni80B6-HK | 39 | U+80B7 | 肷 | | uni80B7-HK | 40 | U+80B8 | 肸 | uni80B8-TW | uni80B8-HK | 41 | U+80BA | 肺 | uni80BA-TW | | 42 | U+80C2 | 胂 | uni80C2-TW | | 43 | U+80C5 | 胅 | uni80C5-TW | | 44 | U+80C6 | 胆 | | uni80C6-HK | 45 | U+80C7 | 胇 | uni80C7-TW | | 46 | U+80C8 | 胈 | uni80C8-TW | | 47 | U+80C9 | 胉 | uni80C9-TW | | 48 | U+80CA | 胊 | uni80CA-CN* | | 49 | U+80CD | 胍 | uni80CD-TW | | 50 | U+80CE | 胎 | uni80CE-TW | | 51 | U+80CF | 胏 | uni80CF-TW | | 52 | U+80D0 | 胐 | uni80D0-CN* | | 53 | U+80D1 | 胑 | uni80D1-TW | | 54 | U+80D5 | 胕 | uni80D5-TW | | 55 | U+80D6 | 胖 | uni80D6-TW | | 56 | U+80D7 | 胗 | uni80D7-TW | | 57 | U+80D8 | 胘 | uni80D8-TW | | 58 | U+80D9 | 胙 | uni80D9-TW | | 59 | U+80DA | 胚 | uni80DA-TW | uni80DA-HK | 60 | U+80DB | 胛 | uni80DB-TW | | 61 | U+80DC | 胜 | uni80DC-TW | | 62 | U+80DD | 胝 | uni80DD-TW | | 63 | U+80DE | 胞 | uni80DE-TW | | 64 | U+80E0 | 胠 | uni80E0-TW | | 65 | U+80E3 | 胣 | uni80E3-TW | | 66 | U+80E6 | 胦 | uni80E6-TW | | 67 | U+80ED | 胭 | uni80ED-TW | | 68 | U+80EF | 胯 | uni80EF-TW | | 69 | U+80F0 | 胰 | uni80F0-TW | | 70 | U+80F1 | 胱 | uni80F1-TW | | 71 | U+80F2 | 胲 | uni80F2-TW | | 72 | U+80F3 | 胳 | uni80F3-TW | | 73 | U+80F4 | 胴 | uni80F4-TW | | 74 | U+80F5 | 胵 | uni80F5-TW | | 75 | U+80F6 | 胶 | | uni80F6-HK | 76 | U+80F8 | 胸 | uni80F8-TW | | 77 | U+80F9 | 胹 | uni80F9-TW | | 78 | U+80FA | 胺 | uni80FA-TW | | 79 | U+80FB | 胻 | uni80FB-TW | | 80 | U+80FC | 胼 | uni80FC-TW | | 81 | U+8101 | 脁 | uni8101-TW | | 82 | U+8102 | 脂 | uni8102-TW | | 83 | U+8103 | 脃 | | uni8103-HK | 84 | U+8106 | 脆 | uni8106-TW | | 85 | U+8107 | 脇 | | uni8107-HK | 86 | U+8108 | 脈 | uni8108-TW | | 87 | U+8109 | 脉 | | uni8109-HK | 88 | U+8115 | 脕 | uni8115-TW | | 89 | U+8116 | 脖 | uni8116-TW | | 90 | U+8117 | 脗 | | uni8117-HK | 91 | U+8118 | 脘 | uni8118-TW | | 92 | U+8119 | 脙 | uni8119-TW | | 93 | U+811A | 脚 | | uni811A-HK | 94 | U+811B | 脛 | uni811B-TW | | 95 | U+811D | 脝 | uni811D-TW | | 96 | U+811E | 脞 | uni811E-TW | | 97 | U+811F | 脟 | uni811F-TW | | 98 | U+8121 | 脡 | uni8121-TW | | 99 | U+8122 | 脢 | uni8122-TW | | 100 | U+8124 | 脤 | uni8124-TW | | 101 | U+8125 | 脥 | uni8125-TW | | 102 | U+8127 | 脧 | uni8127-TW | uni8127-HK | 103 | U+812A | 脪 | | uni812A-HK | 104 | U+812B | 脫 | uni812B-TW | uni812B-HK | 105 | U+812C | 脬 | uni812C-TW | | 106 | U+812D | 脭 | uni812D-TW | | 107 | U+812F | 脯 | uni812F-TW | | 108 | U+8130 | 脰 | uni8130-TW | | 109 | U+8131 | 脱 | | uni8131-HK | 110 | U+8134 | 脴 | | uni8134-HK | 111 | U+8139 | 脹 | uni8139-TW | | 112 | U+813A | 脺 | uni813A-TW | | 113 | U+813D | 脽 | uni813D-TW | | 114 | U+813E | 脾 | uni813E-TW | | 115 | U+8142 | 腂 | | uni8142-HK | 116 | U+8143 | 腃 | uni8143-TW | | 117 | U+8144 | 腄 | uni8144-TW | | 118 | U+8146 | 腆 | uni8146-TW | | 119 | U+8147 | 腇 | uni8147-TW | | 120 | U+8148 | 腈 | | uni8148-HK | 121 | U+814A | 腊 | uni814A-TW | | 122 | U+814B | 腋 | uni814B-TW | | 123 | U+814C | 腌 | uni814C-TW | uni814C-HK | 124 | U+814D | 腍 | uni814D-TW | | 125 | U+814F | 腏 | uni814F-TW | | 126 | U+8151 | 腑 | uni8151-TW | | 127 | U+8152 | 腒 | uni8152-TW | | 128 | U+8153 | 腓 | uni8153-TW | | 129 | U+8154 | 腔 | uni8154-TW | | 130 | U+8155 | 腕 | uni8155-TW | | 131 | U+815B | 腛 | uni815B-TW | | 132 | U+815C | 腜 | uni815C-TW | uni815C-HK | 133 | U+815E | 腞 | uni815E-TW | | 134 | U+8160 | 腠 | uni8160-TW | | 135 | U+8161 | 腡 | uni8161-TW | | 136 | U+8162 | 腢 | uni8162-TW | | 137 | U+8164 | 腤 | uni8164-TW | | 138 | U+8165 | 腥 | uni8165-TW | | 139 | U+8166 | 腦 | uni8166-TW | | 140 | U+8167 | 腧 | uni8167-TW | uni8167-HK | 141 | U+8169 | 腩 | uni8169-TW | | 142 | U+816B | 腫 | uni816B-TW | | 143 | U+816C | 腬 | | uni816C-HK | 144 | U+816D | 腭 | | uni816D-HK | 145 | U+816E | 腮 | uni816E-TW | | 146 | U+816F | 腯 | uni816F-TW | | 147 | U+8170 | 腰 | uni8170-TW | | 148 | U+8171 | 腱 | uni8171-TW | | 149 | U+8172 | 腲 | uni8172-TW | | 150 | U+8173 | 腳 | uni8173-TW | | 151 | U+8174 | 腴 | uni8174-TW | | 152 | U+8176 | 腶 | uni8176-TW | | 153 | U+8177 | 腷 | uni8177-TW | | 154 | U+8178 | 腸 | uni8178-TW | | 155 | U+8179 | 腹 | uni8179-TW | uni8179-HK | 156 | U+817A | 腺 | uni817A-TW | | 157 | U+817D | 腽 | | uni817D-HK | 158 | U+817F | 腿 | uni817F-TW | | 159 | U+8180 | 膀 | uni8180-TW | | 160 | U+8183 | 膃 | uni8183-TW | | 161 | U+8184 | 膄 | | uni8184-HK | 162 | U+8186 | 膆 | uni8186-TW | | 163 | U+8187 | 膇 | uni8187-TW | | 164 | U+8188 | 膈 | uni8188-TW | | 165 | U+8189 | 膉 | uni8189-TW | | 166 | U+818A | 膊 | uni818A-TW | | 167 | U+818C | 膌 | uni818C-TW | uni818C-HK | 168 | U+818D | 膍 | uni818D-TW | | 169 | U+8193 | 膓 | | uni8193-HK | 170 | U+8195 | 膕 | uni8195-TW | | 171 | U+8197 | 膗 | uni8197-TW | | 172 | U+8198 | 膘 | uni8198-TW | uni8198-HK | 173 | U+8199 | 膙 | uni8199-TW | | 174 | U+819B | 膛 | uni819B-TW | | 175 | U+819C | 膜 | uni819C-TW | | 176 | U+819D | 膝 | uni819D-TW | | 177 | U+819E | 膞 | uni819E-TW | | 178 | U+819F | 膟 | uni819F-TW | | 179 | U+81A0 | 膠 | uni81A0-TW | | 180 | U+81A2 | 膢 | uni81A2-TW | uni81A2-HK | 181 | U+81A3 | 膣 | uni81A3-TW | | 182 | U+81A6 | 膦 | uni81A6-TW | uni81A6-HK | 183 | U+81A7 | 膧 | uni81A7-CN* | | 184 | U+81A8 | 膨 | uni81A8-TW | | 185 | U+81A9 | 膩 | uni81A9-TW | | 186 | U+81AA | 膪 | | uni81AA-HK | 187 | U+81AB | 膫 | uni81AB-TW | | 188 | U+81AC | 膬 | uni81AC-TW | | 189 | U+81AE | 膮 | uni81AE-TW | | 190 | U+81B0 | 膰 | uni81B0-TW | | 191 | U+81B1 | 膱 | uni81B1-TW | | 192 | U+81B2 | 膲 | uni81B2-TW | | 193 | U+81B3 | 膳 | uni81B3-TW | | 194 | U+81B4 | 膴 | uni81B4-TW | | 195 | U+81B5 | 膵 | uni81B5-TW | | 196 | U+81B7 | 膷 | uni81B7-TW | | 197 | U+81B9 | 膹 | uni81B9-TW | | 198 | U+81BB | 膻 | uni81BB-TW | | 199 | U+81BC | 膼 | uni81BC-TW | | 200 | U+81BD | 膽 | uni81BD-TW | | 201 | U+81BE | 膾 | uni81BE-TW | uni81BE-HK | 202 | U+81BF | 膿 | uni81BF-TW | | 203 | U+81C1 | 臁 | | uni81C1-HK | 204 | U+81C3 | 臃 | uni81C3-TW | | 205 | U+81C4 | 臄 | uni81C4-TW | | 206 | U+81C5 | 臅 | uni81C5-TW | | 207 | U+81C6 | 臆 | uni81C6-TW | | 208 | U+81C7 | 臇 | uni81C7-TW | | 209 | U+81C8 | 臈 | | uni81C8-HK | 210 | U+81C9 | 臉 | uni81C9-TW | | 211 | U+81CA | 臊 | uni81CA-TW | uni81CA-HK | 212 | U+81CC | 臌 | uni81CC-TW | | 213 | U+81CD | 臍 | uni81CD-TW | uni81CD-HK | 214 | U+81CF | 臏 | uni81CF-TW | | 215 | U+81D0 | 臐 | uni81D0-TW | | 216 | U+81D1 | 臑 | uni81D1-TW | | 217 | U+81D2 | 臒 | uni81D2-TW | | 218 | U+81D5 | 臕 | uni81D5-TW | | 219 | U+81D7 | 臗 | uni81D7-TW | | 220 | U+81D8 | 臘 | uni81D8-TW | uni81D8-HK | 221 | U+81D9 | 臙 | uni81D9-TW | | 222 | U+81DA | 臚 | uni81DA-TW | | 223 | U+81DB | 臛 | uni81DB-TW | | 224 | U+81DE | 臞 | uni81DE-TW | | 225 | U+81DF | 臟 | uni81DF-TW | | 226 | U+81E2 | 臢 | uni81E2-TW | | 227 | U+8409 | 萉 | uni8409-TW | | 228 | U+8444 | 葄 | uni8444-TW | | 229 | U+844B | 葋 | uni844B-TW | | 230 | U+8730 | 蜰 | uni8730-TW | | 231 | U+9721 | 霡 | | uni9721-HK | 232 | U+9722 | 霢 | uni9722-TW | | 233 | U+2112F | 𡄯 | | u2112F-HK

I understand this is not a trival modification. I also tried to see if it is possible to reduce its size by only including frequently used characters. This reduces the number of items to ~140, and the number of glyphs to ~150:

Click to see the reduced list, which excludes infrequently used characters: | # | Codepoint | Character | TW | HK | --- | --------- | --------- | ---------- | ---------- | 1 | U+3B39 | 㬹 | | uni3B39-HK | 3 | U+43DF | 䏟 | | uni43DF-HK | 6 | U+4401 | 䐁 | | uni4401-HK | 13 | U+6DDD | 淝 | uni6DDD-TW | | 14 | U+7B4B | 筋 | uni7B4B-TW | | 16 | U+808B | 肋 | uni808B-TW | | 17 | U+808C | 肌 | uni808C-TW | | 20 | U+8095 | 肕 | uni8095-TW | | 21 | U+8098 | 肘 | uni8098-TW | | 22 | U+809A | 肚 | uni809A-TW | | 23 | U+809B | 肛 | uni809B-TW | | 25 | U+809D | 肝 | uni809D-TW | | 26 | U+809F | 肟 | | uni809F-HK | 27 | U+80A1 | 股 | uni80A1-TW | | 28 | U+80A2 | 肢 | uni80A2-TW | | 30 | U+80A5 | 肥 | uni80A5-TW | | 32 | U+80AA | 肪 | uni80AA-TW | | 33 | U+80AB | 肫 | uni80AB-TW | | 34 | U+80AD | 肭 | uni80AD-TW | | 35 | U+80AE | 肮 | uni80AE-TW | | 36 | U+80B1 | 肱 | uni80B1-TW | | 38 | U+80B6 | 肶 | | uni80B6-HK | 41 | U+80BA | 肺 | uni80BA-TW | | 42 | U+80C2 | 胂 | uni80C2-TW | | 44 | U+80C6 | 胆 | | uni80C6-HK | 49 | U+80CD | 胍 | uni80CD-TW | | 50 | U+80CE | 胎 | uni80CE-TW | | 55 | U+80D6 | 胖 | uni80D6-TW | | 56 | U+80D7 | 胗 | uni80D7-TW | | 59 | U+80DA | 胚 | uni80DA-TW | uni80DA-HK | 60 | U+80DB | 胛 | uni80DB-TW | | 61 | U+80DC | 胜 | uni80DC-TW | | 62 | U+80DD | 胝 | uni80DD-TW | | 63 | U+80DE | 胞 | uni80DE-TW | | 67 | U+80ED | 胭 | uni80ED-TW | | 68 | U+80EF | 胯 | uni80EF-TW | | 69 | U+80F0 | 胰 | uni80F0-TW | | 70 | U+80F1 | 胱 | uni80F1-TW | | 72 | U+80F3 | 胳 | uni80F3-TW | | 73 | U+80F4 | 胴 | uni80F4-TW | | 74 | U+80F5 | 胵 | uni80F5-TW | | 75 | U+80F6 | 胶 | | uni80F6-HK | 76 | U+80F8 | 胸 | uni80F8-TW | | 78 | U+80FA | 胺 | uni80FA-TW | | 80 | U+80FC | 胼 | uni80FC-TW | | 82 | U+8102 | 脂 | uni8102-TW | | 84 | U+8106 | 脆 | uni8106-TW | | 85 | U+8107 | 脇 | | uni8107-HK | 86 | U+8108 | 脈 | uni8108-TW | | 87 | U+8109 | 脉 | | uni8109-HK | 89 | U+8116 | 脖 | uni8116-TW | | 90 | U+8117 | 脗 | | uni8117-HK | 91 | U+8118 | 脘 | uni8118-TW | | 93 | U+811A | 脚 | | uni811A-HK | 94 | U+811B | 脛 | uni811B-TW | | 96 | U+811E | 脞 | uni811E-TW | | 99 | U+8122 | 脢 | uni8122-TW | | 102 | U+8127 | 脧 | uni8127-TW | uni8127-HK | 104 | U+812B | 脫 | uni812B-TW | uni812B-HK | 105 | U+812C | 脬 | uni812C-TW | | 107 | U+812F | 脯 | uni812F-TW | | 109 | U+8131 | 脱 | | uni8131-HK | 111 | U+8139 | 脹 | uni8139-TW | | 113 | U+813D | 脽 | uni813D-TW | | 114 | U+813E | 脾 | uni813E-TW | | 116 | U+8143 | 腃 | uni8143-TW | | 120 | U+8148 | 腈 | | uni8148-HK | 121 | U+814A | 腊 | uni814A-TW | | 122 | U+814B | 腋 | uni814B-TW | | 123 | U+814C | 腌 | uni814C-TW | uni814C-HK | 124 | U+814D | 腍 | uni814D-TW | | 126 | U+8151 | 腑 | uni8151-TW | | 128 | U+8153 | 腓 | uni8153-TW | | 129 | U+8154 | 腔 | uni8154-TW | | 130 | U+8155 | 腕 | uni8155-TW | | 138 | U+8165 | 腥 | uni8165-TW | | 139 | U+8166 | 腦 | uni8166-TW | | 141 | U+8169 | 腩 | uni8169-TW | | 142 | U+816B | 腫 | uni816B-TW | | 144 | U+816D | 腭 | | uni816D-HK | 145 | U+816E | 腮 | uni816E-TW | | 146 | U+816F | 腯 | uni816F-TW | | 147 | U+8170 | 腰 | uni8170-TW | | 148 | U+8171 | 腱 | uni8171-TW | | 150 | U+8173 | 腳 | uni8173-TW | | 151 | U+8174 | 腴 | uni8174-TW | | 152 | U+8176 | 腶 | uni8176-TW | | 153 | U+8177 | 腷 | uni8177-TW | | 154 | U+8178 | 腸 | uni8178-TW | | 155 | U+8179 | 腹 | uni8179-TW | uni8179-HK | 156 | U+817A | 腺 | uni817A-TW | | 157 | U+817D | 腽 | | uni817D-HK | 158 | U+817F | 腿 | uni817F-TW | | 159 | U+8180 | 膀 | uni8180-TW | | 160 | U+8183 | 膃 | uni8183-TW | | 164 | U+8188 | 膈 | uni8188-TW | | 165 | U+8189 | 膉 | uni8189-TW | | 166 | U+818A | 膊 | uni818A-TW | | 167 | U+818C | 膌 | uni818C-TW | uni818C-HK | 168 | U+818D | 膍 | uni818D-TW | | 170 | U+8195 | 膕 | uni8195-TW | | 172 | U+8198 | 膘 | uni8198-TW | uni8198-HK | 174 | U+819B | 膛 | uni819B-TW | | 175 | U+819C | 膜 | uni819C-TW | | 176 | U+819D | 膝 | uni819D-TW | | 177 | U+819E | 膞 | uni819E-TW | | 178 | U+819F | 膟 | uni819F-TW | | 179 | U+81A0 | 膠 | uni81A0-TW | | 181 | U+81A3 | 膣 | uni81A3-TW | | 182 | U+81A6 | 膦 | uni81A6-TW | uni81A6-HK | 184 | U+81A8 | 膨 | uni81A8-TW | | 185 | U+81A9 | 膩 | uni81A9-TW | | 193 | U+81B3 | 膳 | uni81B3-TW | | 195 | U+81B5 | 膵 | uni81B5-TW | | 198 | U+81BB | 膻 | uni81BB-TW | | 199 | U+81BC | 膼 | uni81BC-TW | | 200 | U+81BD | 膽 | uni81BD-TW | | 201 | U+81BE | 膾 | uni81BE-TW | uni81BE-HK | 202 | U+81BF | 膿 | uni81BF-TW | | 203 | U+81C1 | 臁 | | uni81C1-HK | 204 | U+81C3 | 臃 | uni81C3-TW | | 205 | U+81C4 | 臄 | uni81C4-TW | | 207 | U+81C6 | 臆 | uni81C6-TW | | 210 | U+81C9 | 臉 | uni81C9-TW | | 211 | U+81CA | 臊 | uni81CA-TW | uni81CA-HK | 212 | U+81CC | 臌 | uni81CC-TW | | 213 | U+81CD | 臍 | uni81CD-TW | uni81CD-HK | 214 | U+81CF | 臏 | uni81CF-TW | | 216 | U+81D1 | 臑 | uni81D1-TW | | 219 | U+81D7 | 臗 | uni81D7-TW | | 220 | U+81D8 | 臘 | uni81D8-TW | uni81D8-HK | 225 | U+81DF | 臟 | uni81DF-TW | | 226 | U+81E2 | 臢 | uni81E2-TW | | 233 | U+2112F | 𡄯 | | u2112F-HK * For U+80CA 胊, U+80D0 胐 and U+81A7 膧, the CN glyph adopts the "⺼/⿴⺆冫" form instead of 月. The design is a little bit different from TW/HK's ⺼, and

This is not surprising, because many the characters like 腦=brain, 腳=leg, 臉=face, 臟腑=organs, 膨脹=expand, 脂肪/肥胖=fat, 脫=take off (clothes etc.), escape, so using these characters in an article is unavoidable.

punchcutter commented 2 years ago

Like https://github.com/adobe-fonts/source-han-serif/issues/127 this one has also been bothering me.

NightFurySL2001 commented 2 years ago

It should be noted that ⺼ in left and bottom should touch the left and right stroke according to The Dictionary of Chinese Variant Form (異體字字典) and Source Han Serif did not met the requirement for bottom ⺼. For ⺼ on the right the MOE Sung demonstrate that most are touching, and Source Han Serif appears to be touching too. image

Affected characters as viewed in Regular: (201 characters) ⺼肓肖肙肩肯育肴胃胄背胡胤胥能脅脊脣脩腎膂膏膺臀臂佾俏偝削厭厴哨唷啃喟嗋堉塉壓娟婿媦嬮宵尳屑峭崤帩弰悁悄愲愶態捎捐掮掯揟揱揹搚搰散旓梋梢楈榍榾樇殽消涓淆淯渭湑湚滑滫漘潲澈焆煟熁熊犤狷猏猒猾琄痟瘠睄睊矲硝磭稍稰筋筲箾糈絹綃縃縎罥罷羆艄莦菺萷葫蓇蓨蕱藣蘛蛸蜎蜰蝑蝟螖螚裐褙誚諝謂趙踃蹐輎逍郩鄁酳醑銷鋗錥錹霄霰靨鞘鞙顅顝餚饜駽骨骫骭骯骰骱骳骴骷骸骹骻骼骾骿髀髁髂髆髇髊髍髏髐髑髒髓體髕髖髾鬍魈魘鮹鵑鵳鶦鶺鶻黶 image

tamcy commented 2 years ago

@NightFurySL2001 I am not sure why you are still keeping your eyes on this "to touch or not to touch" issue after reading the official reply you got yesterday. And the concern you posted here and in other issue(s) may have been well answered here, and here.

hfhchan commented 2 years ago

Characters containing the ⺼component overwhelmingly apply to glyphs unique to TW or glyphs shared only between TW and HK, so there is little effect on the glyph count if such "noncompliance" was rectified.

However, as compliance will yield an objectively horrible result, I believe proposing so is a form of malicious compliance. 😆

NightFurySL2001 commented 2 years ago

I would like to point out a few things:

  1. the current ⺼ only applies for TW and HK, so no new glyphs will be required for this operation;

  2. this edit is trivial by just stretching the 冫 across and touching;

  3. both left and (most) right ⺼ component already has a touching form and only bottom ⺼does not touch the left/right stroke, causing inconsistency in the font itself. image

  4. the comment provided to SHSans does not fit this issue as 1. the example is not mentioned in any documents in Taiwan MOE; 2. these glyphs are non-sharable already due to the design of ⺼ itself. Adobe however should consult with the designers whether it is ok to fix this issue.

tamcy commented 2 years ago

While I don't think it is a good idea to force the middle strokes to touch the outer component, I agree to leave it to Adobe's designer to decide. And just FYI, Taiwan MoE's official Sung (Serif) and Kai (Script) fonts also exhibit such "inconsistencies": meat