ak2yny
commented
1 month ago My opinion:
- Lars added extra texture maps. It's a different discussion, whether or not to use extra texture maps, and they can easily be removed from Lars' mannequins. I prefer mannequins without them for the most part, because of two reasons:
- Mannequins (stage) load faster (without extra texture maps)
- With normal maps, mannequins look bad from afar (unless normal maps use mip-maps)
- I find it a neat idea to use the original pose, if it works on the OCP and roster hack stages (which they do). Some mannequins were changed by UltraMegaMagnus, so they can be used on any location, such as Human Torch or Deadpool. They should only use their original poses on the original stages (GE and other vanilla stages). On these stages, the rotation is different again, so the original mannequins should be used instead of Lars' (except for the scale, possibly), but it really depends on the mannequin.
- Black Widow: The PSP pose is nice, but Lars' attempt looks unnatural. Originally, BW rests the gun on her leg and the pose looks well balanced, while it looks that BW has quite an effort to hold that pose in Lars' version. I think it's good to have the Modern/NPC skin for BW instead of the Ultimate, but the original Ultimate mannequin should probably be added to the optional Ultimate BW skin. This is a very difficult pose to re-create, but the current attempt just doesn't do it IMO. Between Lars' mannequin and the current OCP, I choose OCP.
- Captain America: The original mq. really needed this update, as its low quality look makes it stand apart from most of the others. The high quality texture has its flaws, but that's a different story. I don't know which pose I prefer, I like UltraMegaMagnus' custom pose just as much. If we're going for original poses for consistency, I think this mq. is definitely worth backing up (as an optional mod, maybe).
- Captain Marvel: An excellent re-creation of the pose. Apparently, the arms are a little different, but I don't see it (grated, my PSP preview is tiny). I like floating mannequins, but it forces him to be a back-row character. Not sure here. As for the texture maps: I prefer MrK's (not sure if I give correct credits here) version of the emission map.
- Colossus: He's floating on my stage, now. It looks like he needed the tilt, but somehow it looks worse, IMO. Giving him the Ultimate skin is fair, even though the official loading screen shows his Classic costume. He uses the Ultimate costume for primary skin and mannequin originally, after all. (The scale looks good to me on both mannequins, but I actually might be showing the scaled mannequin by Outsider.)
- Cyclops: Needed the rotation for non-vanilla stages/positions. This is another costume change from the OCP that is fair, because Cyclops appears in his Astonishing costume in the cutscene. But if we're sticking to LS/skin/mq. matching, the Astonishing skin is not an option. Apparently, he was floating before, but I'm not seeing it.
- Doctor Doom: Floating and belt are fixed, but the mannequin has more issues, which aren't fixed (joint discs, coming from the skin). This mannequin has the wide belt, so I prefer the floating mannequin (it works, because Doom is a back row character, originally). The standing mannequin could be an optional mannequin for better compatibility with other locations. Note: The OCP mannequin appears to be bigger, but the size should be accurate to the skin size. It could be scaled, if necessary (although, it looks to me like the standing mq. is rather too small).
- Elektra: The hands are worse IMO. The og. mannequin's left hand is possibly not good, but it doesn't look better in Lars' version, I think. The right hand holds the Sai incorrectly AFAIK. The OCP hand is the worst. The breast is fixed in Lars' version, but the pose looks worse, IMO. There is no good version of that mannequin at this time. IIRC, the original and GE stages have different mannequins for Elektra. One of them might work.
- Hawkeye: Bow on back looks better, IMO. But should it be Classic or Ultimate costume? I don't know (again, LS is Ultimate). I'm not sure if scaling is necessary. The mannequin from the GE (which I thought was og. GE, but I might be wrong) has the better size, I think. I don't see the other translation issues that were fixed, but my GE mannequin might be modified again.
- Hulk: The mannequin was way too big for any other stage than the original one. I like the more saturated / more green skin of the original mannequin. It's the same size as the OCP2 mannequin but with a 100% original pose. I think Lars' mannequin should be the one to be used here (although, I like both poses and it could be a little bigger, I think).
- Human Torch: It's a nice idea and alternative, but it also forces HT to be a back row character. And it requires the flame effect. It could be used in the optional stages with the original mannequins, though. But I'd try to make the pose even closer to the original (using the flying animation).
- Luke Cage: His default mannequin was too big. It's the same size as the OCP2 mannequin but with a 100% original pose. I think Lars' mannequin should be the one to be used here (although, I like both poses and it could be a little bigger, I think).
- Magneto: It's close, but I think the arms are a little problematic, especially the blocky fingers. This one also suffers from being forced to a back-row character, but as a GE character it's okay (at least for the GE stage). (Note: The GE stage has the height modified in the menulocation, which is why the OCP2 mannequin appears too low. This means that the floating mannequins appear too high on other stages, but it can be fixed.)
- Mr. Fantastic: It doesn't look good. That mannequin should be re-made using the menu_goodbye animation, which means it has to be done after fixing the weights of this skin. The original mannequin was using the PS2 skin, so it should be re-made with the next-gen model. In the meantime, we should stick with the OCP2 mannequin. This stretchy pose also only works in the back row, so I'm not sure which one should be used in the OCP2, but the stretchy pose should be used in the vanilla stages (again, after fixing the weights and re-doing the mq.).
- Sabretooth: The height had to be fixed, so that's great. I think he could be a little taller? But the size works anyway (maybe the OCP2 Ultimate mq. is a little too tall). This is another skin that should be considered staying in Ultimate costume (because of the LS) and the OCP2 pose works for Sabretooth, IMO.
- The Thing: I think the scale reduction was needed. The correctly rotated mannequin works better than the OCP2 mannequin, which still clips with its neighbours, because it's so wide. I'm all for Lars' mq. here.
- Venom: The original GE mq. is extra big, but some prefer that (as a back row character on the original stage and position, he's barely seen, otherwise). I think Lars' scale is good and he got the pose right, but he got the wrong tongue (OCP 1.3 instead of OCP2, which is the same as GE). Lars' skin should only be used with the default OCP2 and the RH stages. The OCP2 mannequin has two problems: tongue is curled, scale is too small (Lars' scale works better). The GE mannequin is open on the back, but it doesn't matter, because you never see it in game. I think the original GE mannequin should be used and scaled for the default OCP2 and RH stages.
techurious
This is in response to Lars' recent mannequin "fixes" for the OCP. He didn't mention which OCP, but I think some problems are definitely there, so I wanted to open this issue as a platform to discuss (changed) OCP2 mannequins and possible improvements. Here are Lars' mannequins, all compared to the original and OCP2 versions:
All images: MqImgs.zip