timjogorman
commented
9 years ago People on the call wander more information on this and an impression of the scale of changes, so here's a bunch of info.
Issue 1: What's the scope of this?
Constructionally: 76 instances
There are constructions that clearly encode this meaning, like "let alone", "much less" and also "not only" and "not just" (specifically they then to be "not just X but Y"). That's 76 instances - "let alone":10, "not just":22, "not only":35, "much less":.
Discourse Markers: 245
I did a quick study (included below), grabbing the first 33 each of 'only', 'just' and 'even'. In that, "even" pervasively fit into the proposed let-alone-91 treatment -- I've included tricky examples below but everything seems to be a clear gain -- and "only" and "just" simply didn't -- I've listed a bunch of "mitigating" uses of "only" and "just" here, but I'd propose that they are different and clearly differentiable.
This leaves a total re-annotation load of 321 total (but I naturally think this is lower priority than unification...)
Issue 2: What are the tricky cases?
I included random examples at the bottom of this to see more proposed annotation. Tricky issues, however, are:
additive "even" and "maybe even"
There's a small set of "even" examples where it might be viewed as being more like coordination with focal marking on the last parts. The most painful cases for a let-alone-91 predicate are things like: "they served apples, bananas and even dragonfruit!". One could theoretically still go whole-hog on those:
(l / let-alone-91
:ARG1 (s / serve-02
:ARG0 (t / they)
:ARG1 (a / and
:op1 (a2 / apple)
:op2 (b / banana)))
:ARG2 (s2 / serve-02
:ARG0 t
:ARG1 (d2 / dragonfruit)))
(i.e. not only did they serve bananas, they even served dragonfruit!")In real text this shows up with "maybe even", as in:
- Costa said that the fact that prices had not collapsed already was evidence that the Taliban, drug lords and even some farmers have stockpiled the opium.
- maybe more 'politically bold missions' like Chechnya,Kashmir,Afghanistan,NWFP/Waziristan..maybe even Cuba/N.Korea..
- Seems odd they could build this. Im betting on a lot of Chinese maybe even Russia help.
You also get sentences with this modifying the whole sentence that might seem similar:
- We could even fly in vetted Indian miners (with training) to avoid the secret getting out here.
- DMT even occurs naturally in humans and most other mammals, are they going to ban humans and mammals too!?) Personally, I find these all to be "close enough"; thoughts?
"even" with quantification
You get strings like "even more X", like "it's even more complicated when...". These, to me at least, do imply this same let-alone-91 meaning, or something close to it. With an example like:
- It is even more complicated in borderless cyber space where there is no smoking gun, fingerprints or footprints.
I think that it makes sense to interpret that as an extreme point on the scale that has other components -- i.e. "finding terrorists normally is hard but it's even harder in borderless cyber space". One example where you'd use both arguments did show up (capitalization added):
Kallie kriel of afriforum stated that the South African Government's approval for the transport of the arms across South African territory will in effect mean that the Government is replacing an ineffective policy of silent diplomacy with an EVEN MORE catastrophic policy of complicity to the State violence and human rights violations committed by the Zimbabwean government against Zimbabwean citizens.
(s / state-01
:ARG0 (p / person :wiki - :name (n5 / name :op1 "Kallie" :op2 "Kriel")
:ARG0-of (h2 / have-org-role-91
:ARG1 (o / organization :wiki "AfriForum" :name (n3 / name :op1 "Afriforum"))))
:ARG1 (m / mean-01
:ARG1 (a / approve-01
:ARG0 (g / government-organization
:ARG0-of (g2 / govern-01
:ARG1 (c / country :wiki "South_Africa" :name (n / name :op1 "South" :op2 "Africa"))))
:ARG1 (t / transport-01
:ARG1 (a2 / arm)
:path (a3 / across
:op1 (t2 / territory
:poss c))))
:ARG2 (r / replace-01
:ARG0 g
:ARG1 (p2 / policy
:mod (e2 / effective :polarity -)
:mod (d / diplomacy
:mod (s2 / silence)))
:ARG2 (p3 / policy
:mod (c2 / catastrophic
:degree (m2 / more
:ARG2-of (l / LET-ALONE-91
:ARG1 e2)))
:mod (c3 / complicity
:prep-to (a4 / and
:op1 (v / violence
:mod (s3 / state))
:op2 (v2 / violate-01
:ARG1 (r2 / right
:mod (h / human)))
:ARG1-of (c4 / commit-02
:ARG0 (g3 / government-organization
:ARG0-of (g4 / govern-01
:ARG1 (c5 / country :wiki "Zimbabwe" :name (n2 / name :op1 "Zimbabwe"))))
:prep-against (c6 / citizen
:mod c5))))))
:prep-in (e / effect)))Mitigators
There are a pile of examples of "only" and "just" that are often paraphrasable with "mere" or "merely", and which mark something as being low on a scale with no implication of anything beyond that. For example:
- Eventually thsi may leave only eight LHD 1 Wasp class ships until and IF LHA(R) class ships get built. *You will just end up adding to the long and miserable statistic.
- Now it is only a matter of time before Kitty retires and brings to an end the era of steam powered CV's in the USN.
- Only 19 of our 140 KIA that month-barely more than a tenth-were killed by IEDs. I'd propose that this is a different thing entirely. You can consider my lumpings below, but I don't think that these are that confusable with "let-alone-91"; none can be paraphrased with "not only but " or "not let alone ", which is a good test of this. (If people want another special predicate for this I'm all for it, but that is another issue entirely).
Why this is different from concession
The format definition of concession that I'm familiar with is "X implies normally not(Y), but X and Y". We tend to lump a related concept into concession, this "even if" meaning, which would be "X implies normally not(Y); Y irregardless of the truth value of X". While I'm not proposing we have a rigid logical definition for any of these, even if you shoved these into a logical form, they are doing pretty different things (even if one might decompose most instances into operations over expectation)
| label | example | more logical form |
|---|---|---|
| concession | although it rained, the game continued | rain -implies-> not(game-continuing), rain & game-continuing |
| concession (irrelevance conditional) | even if it rains, the game will continue | rain -implies-> not(game-continuing), game-continuing |
| let-alone-91 | cancelled? it didn't even sprinkle, much less rain! | sprinkling is on a scale with rain so that rain -entails-> sprinkle, and not-sprinkling -entails-> not-raining ; it did not sprinkle, and thus entailments of "rain" should clearly not apply |
| let-alone-91 | not cancelled? it not only rained, it sleeted! | railing is on a scale with hail so that sleeting -entails-> rain, and not-raining -entails-> not-sleeting ; it sleeted, and therefore the entailments of raining should clearly apply. |
Sampling the Data
I make sure I'm not accidentally picking "clean" examples, I grabbed 100 examples of these, evenly from only, just and even, excluding even-if and even-though connectives.
Examples that I'd put under let-alone-91
I'll modify the AMRs for a few of these and add them at the bottom. I've added in {} hypothetical continuations where you have both arguments.
- What I am trying to say is that domestic abuse does not just affect you - it will affect everyone you care about.
- Seems odd they could build this. Im betting on a lot of Chinese maybe even Russia help.
- GO on EbaY they even sell the knock offs to us. {they not only sell the knock-offs in China but even to us}
- Hell you have to take alot of caution when you are working in closed areas with noxious fumes, even building models you can get messed up off the paints if you dont have an open window.
- He detonates the IED from a car parked down a side street and drives away before the occupiers can even start their search {much less find him}
- I knew this war was a bad idea, but even I never realized what we'd be up against. {not even John, let alone Billy, ever realized what they'd be up against }
- If the blast is big enough, it can kill even an MBT. {it could not only kill a truck, it could even kill an MBT}
- When the IED detonates, this copper cup turns into a shaft of superheated metal that can zip right through any armor, even an M1's.
- That's because-damn, how many times do I have to repeat it?-guerrilla war has no technical solution. Or even military solution. {has no technical solution, much less a military one}
- Is there anything which can be done to challenge their decision not even to do a preliminary investigation into an attempted burglary and common assault, where there are witnesses to the attack? {decision to not even do a preliminary investigation, much less a full one}
- They can't just 'close an investigation' the day afterwards, not having even taken statements.
- Was it even recorded as a crime?
- It seems pretty clear that the police did not bother with forensic testing and may not even have checked the CCTV footage .
- Alexandert Downer stated doubts that North Korea was even capable of firing a nuclear missiles.
- ElBaradei said that even countries which have nuclear weapons know that a country which uses nuclear weapons will be pulverized but that extremist groups will use nuclear weapons if possible.
- Chavez has insisted and even his staunchest retired military Critics here agree that the purchases are essential to update old weaponry such as the military's decades-old Belgian FAL rifles.
- Costa said that the fact that prices had not collapsed already was evidence that the Taliban, drug lords and even some farmers have stockpiled the opium.
- DMT even occurs naturally in humans and most other mammals, are they going to ban humans and mammals too!?)
- I'm not even sure this url thing is gonna work but it's a story about scientists growing meat in a vat (stem cell research). {this url might not work let alone interest you, but it's about...}
- The sanctions placed on Iran are designed to appear to target only military groups but with research you will see it massively targets civilian business, infrastructure and even the attempt of Iranian students to study outside of Iran.
- We ould even fly in vetted Indian miners (with training) to avoid the secret getting out here. It would benefit us by allowing payments to be made outside our budget approprations process, which is transparent.
- maybe more 'politically bold missions' like Chechnya,Kashmir,Afghanistan,NWFP/Waziristan..maybe even Cuba/N.Korea..
Those even+comparison instances (I'd also put under let-alone-91)
- It is even more complicated in borderless cyber space where there is no smoking gun, fingerprints or footprints.
- Wirajuda added that terrorists had been evolving new strategies and tactics and thus are becoming an even greater threat to peace, security and progress.
- Kallie kriel of afriforum stated that the South African Government's approval for the transport of the arms across South African territory will in effect mean that the Government is replacing an ineffective policy of silent diplomacy with an even more catastrophic policy of complicity to the State violence and human rights violations committed by the Zimbabwean government against Zimbabwean citizens.
- Gill stated that improvements in China's conventional military are even more dramatic after more than 10 years of double-digit percentage increases in annual defense spending.
- Chavez's detractors in the US government say that it is even more troubling that Chavez's arms purchases and indoctrination of civilian militias could be part of a strategy to restructure Venezuelan democracy in the image of Cuban-style militarized socialism and foment leftist revolutions throughout South America.
"mitigative" or "dimishing" just and only
Usually paraphrasable with 'mere' or 'merely' or 'only'. We could theoretically frame these all as arg1 on let-alone-91, but I think it's a bad idea. I think if you look at these, they are clearly different from the let-alone-91 examples above.
- so yeah, don't fool yourself. whatever that girl is doing now is probably just a pretend, trying to move on, be a changed person, ect ect.
- They'll give you another test just to make sure (however pregnancy tests are rarely wrong when they read positive).
- To her, I probably came off as someone who does this all the time, and she was just one girl on a list of dozens I've had one night stands with.
- To clarify are you just looking to 'have fun' with the girl, or are you cool with the idea of going a little serious?
- Asking her out for a cuppa could be a good idea, although I don't want to do that just as a way of saying sorry.
- So I'll just tell him he doesn't have to be involved with our child financially and I just want him to be there for it as a fatherly figure (which I doubt he can commit to) as my Parents can support us anyways.
- You will just end up adding to the long and miserable statistic.
- If you're really into him stick around, maybe it's just the shock that's making you feel this way.
- Week 1: Shaved my arms and zapped them today, did it in two separate goes (took around 30 mins to do each arm) and my sister did them for me just because certain angles are tricky to get to.
- I do think our main reason for helping is oil and resources, which is pretty much as bad as doing nothing as we're not setting the example of helping people out in a time of crisis, its more of a " we'll help but only because we might get something in return"
- I can't help but feel that the western media is portraying only one side of the story (Tibet),when in reality we Brits have also invaded Tibet and the world said nothing.
- The Chinese were mostly only buying unlicensed copyright infringed copies of name brand french goods anyway.
- Now it is only a matter of time before Kitty retires and brings to an end the era of steam powered CV's in the USN.
- With the demise of the Battleships almost a certainty and only a handful, if any, of the DDX class ships to be built(Plus the truncated LPD program) the USN is poised to cut its amphibious forces by 1/3.
- IT ONLY HAS MAGARS CLASS LANDING SHIPS. SO IF INDIAN NAVY GET THIS SHIP, THEN I THINK IT IS OK.
- Eventually thsi may leave only eight LHD 1 Wasp class ships until and IF LHA(R) class ships get built.
- But if only one third of the troops like the way we're going about the business of winning in Iraq, that does NOT necessarily mean they've lost faith in the mission.
- So, although it's only my perspective here and backed by absolutely no numbers, stats or facts other than what I know from personal observation, I simply do not see the impending crash coming.
- Only one man needs to be on the spot-the triggerman.
- We only lost 18 M1s in the conventional fighting, but the guerrillas have since managed to disable 80.7
- The Army's Armor Center says only five crew have died in IED attacks on M1s.
- Only 19 of our 140 KIA that month-barely more than a tenth-were killed by IEDs.
- which is only of about 25+ since the beginning of the year.
- We had a problem last year in that a Gay Pride group wanted to be part of our parade but we kept them out with the excuse that they only suddenly showed up and did not apply to be a unit.
"deprecatory" just (Lee 87 terminology)
There aren't paraphrasable with "only" or "merely", usually paraphrasable with "simply", and perhaps having only interactional meaning -- I'm tempted to throw them out entirely
- Sorry for the rambling, I just needed to get that out.
- I don't know if I'm overreacting, but I just feel really hurt about the way he's neglecting me again and I'm literally crying as I write this.
- Just express your worries to him and maybe you'll get something out of him.
- My counsellor had great fun dissecting it and telling me how I'm sexually attracted to mother figures, but he was just an arse
- I just felt like I was a bit clinical and almost rude, especially with her asking if I wanted her to come back with me.
- if she ignores this too then just move on to the next
- then again, she mightn't want anything serious, so just go slow.
- Just text her and invite her to go out.
- I just got myself into a panic and had a mental block.
- You just have to be honest with him and hopefully he will take care of his responsibilities.
- Yeah I'll tell you guys tomorrow I'm just afraid as he's prone to act violent at times.
- My parents have come to terms with it now after having little mini heart attacks, it's just how can I break it to him?
- If my mum had not calmed me down then I would be in prison just now.
- The best part is that you don't even need a triggerman to set it off.
- Apparently the copper isn't even actually molten.
- I was in the similar situation couple of momth ago and i just kept this girl away from me and you ought to do the same since once something is over, then it is OVER
- These days they've gone back to wires, and I hear some are even using string.
- Search several different ways, most do not even have the word "dropship" on their site.
- I don't think there is a way to tell him other than just being straight to the point.
- Im so emotionally drained and dont want any friends to know because they'll just think bad of him, when really he is good deep down.
- I don't wanna ring him any more because I feel insulted that he just casually blanks my calls.
- He did this before once two years ago as well over nothing but I can't really remember how it proceeded...i guess he just gradually starting calling again.
- I was thinking of buying one of these because I just think it would be the best thing ever to never have to shave my bikini area again!
- Or just be pale and beautiful as I am
quantifier-ish "only" -- X constitutes the entirety of set Y.
- Oil is not the only reason why the coalition are backing the rebels (and I'm going to take the plunge now and say that they are), but it is certainly a consideration.
- A dropshipper is only concerned with selling their 100 items as fast as they can.
- Gadaffi has stated that (assuming he regains control over his country) he will only sell oil to the Russians and the Chinese.
- Additionally, shouldn't our own armed forces be used for national defence only ?
- The only hope is if Dear Leader's son allows change but don't hold your breath.
- When the West criticizes China about its lack of democracy of humans rights abuses it's usually only the West who has a problem with it and not the average Chinese person.
- The only thing the extremist muslims can possibly do is blow themselves up in our borders.
- The sanctions placed on Iran are designed to appear to target only military groups but with research you will see it massively targets civilian business, infrastructure and even the attempt of Iranian students to study outside of Iran.
- AND THIS IS THE ONLY REASON THAT AMERICANS HAVE SUDDENLY AGREED TO SUPPLY INDIA THIS PARTICULAR SHIP.
- The large "gray area" knows no boundries. And once you let religion into politics instead of keeping them seperate the black and white disappears depending upon who you are and only gray exists.
- That's the only thing they understand.
- The only reason I ever opened my Chem book was to see if it mentioned TNT or dynamite in the index.
- The only effective CI techniques are torture, reprisal and, ultimately, genocide.
- All these Holocaust lobbyists get furious if anybody says Jews aren't the only tribe to get genocided, but that's just politics-"Our genocide is better than your genocide!"
- The only reasons we would were if we really needed the money or if the yellowcake were not available elsewhere or if you were the only ones who had something we really needed from an existential perspective as barter.
- I think any Israeli action against Iran would involve bringing the US into the war, I think its the only way Israel can really do enough damage to make the whole effort worthwhile.
Restrictive Just (Lee87 classification)
- On a pain scale I'd give it 2/10 (just feels like a hot, tingling sensation for about 1 second then fades).
specificatory Just (Lee87 classification)
- Just over two years ago my girlfriends step-father was hurting her mum.
- Just finished zapping them again but this time did it myself, found it to be much quicker.
if-only
- God willing, yes, if only to overthrow the corrupt governments in place in these countries.
just-as
- Nothing wrong with being bi, but just as bi's have a taste for guys and girls, some people don't have a taste for bi's, if you know what I mean?
even-as
- Downer said that terrorists' methods and abilities become more sophisticated even as Governments' capacity to stop them improves.
have-concession-91 (even with)
- Nobody knows how to stop IEDs, even with all the Popular Mechanics geeks sending in their garage-tech brainstorms.
instead-of-91
- I think those ok with the chinese police state are really ok with the $ to be made there and they were never concerned about freedom only the spread of market capitalism.
Example AMR treatments
Chavez has insisted and even his staunchest retired military Critics here agree that the purchases are essential to update old weaponry such as the military's decades-old Belgian FAL rifles.
(l / let-alone-91
:ARG1 (i / insist-01
:ARG0 (p / person :wiki "Hugo_Chávez" :name (n / name :op1 "Chavez"))
:ARG1 e2)
:ARG2 (a2 / agree-01
:ARG0 (p2 / person
:ARG0-of (c / criticize-01
:ARG1 p)
:mod (m / military)
:ARG0-of (r / retire-01)
:mod (s / staunch
:degree (m2 / most))
:location (h / here))
:ARG1 (e2 / essential
:domain (p3 / purchase-01)
:purpose (u / update-01
:ARG1 (w / weaponry
:mod (o / old)
:example (r2 / rifle :wiki "FN_FAL" :name (n2 / name :op1 "FAL")
:ARG1-of (a3 / age-01
:ARG2 (m3 / multiple
:op1 (t / temporal-quantity :quant 1
:unit (d / decade))))
:source (c2 / country :wiki "Belgium" :name (n3 / name :op1 "Belgium"))
:poss (m4 / military)))))))Alexandert Downer stated doubts that North Korea was even capable of firing a nuclear missiles.
(s / state-01
:ARG0 (p / person :wiki "Alexander_Downer" :name (n / name :op1 "Alexander" :op2 "Downer"))
:ARG1 (d / doubt-01
:ARG1 (c / capable-41
:ARG1 (c2 / country :wiki "North_Korea" :name (n2 / name :op1 "North" :op2 "Korea"))
:ARG2 (f / fire-01
:ARG1 (m / missile
:mod (n3 / nucleus)))
:ARG1-of (l / let-alone-91))))When the IED detonates, this copper cup turns into a shaft of superheated metal that can zip right through any armor, even an M1's.
(t / turn-02
:ARG0 (d / detonate-01
:ARG1 (i2 / IED))
:ARG1 (c / cup
:consist-of (c2 / copper))
:ARG2 (s / shaft
:consist-of (m2 / metal
:ARG1-of (h / heat-01
:degree (s2 / super)))
:ARG0-of (z / zip-01
:mod (r / right)
:mod (p / possible)
:path (l2 / let-alone-91
:ARG1 (t2 / thing
:ARG2-of (a / armor-01)
:mod (a3 / any))
:ARG2 (t3 / thing
:ARG2-of (a2 / armor-01
:ARG1 (v / vehicle :wiki "M1_Abrams" :name (n2 / name :op1 "M1"))))))))
I wanted to put up a proposal (mentioned in meetings with Kevin, presumably for AFTER we finish unification) regarding scalar models. Basically, the idea is that there a bunch of constructions like "not X let alone Y", "not X much less Y", or "I not only Xed, I even Yed", that actually imply more than "not X and not Y" or "X and Y"; they actually imply that X and Y are on a scale of likelihood; if not X, then not Y, and if Y, then probably X.
The starting point for this is Fillmore '88, which gives lots of good examples for "let alone". Consider something like:
I don't have time to FEED the children, let alone PREPARE my LECTURE
This isn't simply saying that they don't have time for feeding children or preparing a lecture, but that if one doesn't have time to feed the children, then you can naturally assume that they also didn't prepare a lecture. This works for "prepositional" let-alone uses too, since they can be viewed as elided version of the clausal kind:
I doubt you could get Fred, let alone Louise, to eat the squid
The fact that we get a scale here too -- if Fred won't eat it, there's no chance that Louise would -- would definitely be a cool thing to capture. As these are the rare moments where the grammar explicitly encodes pragmatic entailments, it seems silly to not be capturing them. So how could we do so?
Very tentatively, I'd propose a predicate like this:
let-alone-91: "Assertion that two events are along a scale of probability. If arg1 doesn't happen, arg2 definitely won't; if arg2 happens, arg1 is pretty likely". :arg1 The more likely, less extreme item. You "only" did this, or "didn't even" do this. :arg2 The less likely, more extreme, argument. You "even" did this. :arg3 explicit scale, if present (rare)
So for example:
Yesterday afternoon I went back to check out the torch relay, but even the flame was practically impossible to see, let alone the guys carrying the torch.
what we want: it wasn't possible to see the flame, and therefore was even less possible to see the guy carrying it:
This goes beyond "let alone", though, which is pretty rare (~40 instances). The "big" part of this assertion isn't those rare connectives like "let alone", "much less" and possibly "a fortiori", but rather something called "scalar additive particles", like many instances of "even" and "only", which encode this same meaning. Consider:
None of us even know ITALIAN Hans even knows ITALIAN
and in German: Keiner von uns kann auch nur ITALIENISCH Hans kann nicht einmal ITALIENISCH
The "even" in these has this same scalar function in some ways, although it interacts weirdly with modality. You could elaborate them with None of us even know ITALIAN much less Swahili Hans not only knows Spanish and French, but he even knows SWAHILI
In this sense, these are doing the same thing, either implying that something is an extreme form of something (it entails many easier versions of the same) or is a minimal form of something (there are more extreme things that aren't true).
I've included a bunch of examples below of how we currently do this kind of thing, and how I'd propose doing them with a let-alone-91 predicate:
Yesterday afternoon I went back to check out the torch relay, but even the flame was practically impossible to see, let alone the guys carrying the torch.
what we want: it wasn't possible to see the flame, and therefore it is even more impossible for me to see the guy carrying it:
I think The Dark Knight should have won the Best Film award, but they didn't even nominate that film.
currently the sentence says "It should have was, was not nominated"
proposed model would get the same AMR as "it wasn't even nominated much less given the award"; captures this fact that nominations are a more basic thing than actually winning but one a related implicature scale (if you won you were probably nominated):
Where they happen they become viral videos and even make the newspapers.
You could capture this richer idea that "becoming viral videos" is a lesser extent of "making the papers" but on the same ill-defined "scale"
A weird instance that might express the actual scale:
Israel would find it hard enough to conduct air raids on Iran, let alone fighting a large scale war. current:
proposed: ("hard describes conducting air raids, but even further along the same hardness scale would be fighting a large-scale war")
Evidently scalar additives are everywhere; there's a basic paper on these in German that expands to other languages too. (Evidently Romanian "chiar" being in this same general domain? I didn't see examples)
That is why I think we should do this; do people think that we can do this easily/consistently? The case for "this might be hard" might be best made in the fact that negation with "even" can flip the arguments for this proposed predicate:
The waiter even brought silverware! (b / bring-01 :ARG0 (p / person :ARG0-of (w / wait-02)) :ARG1 (s / silverware) :ARG2-of (l2 / let-alone-91))
The waiter didn't even bring silverware! (b / bring-01 :polarity - :ARG0 (p / person :ARG0-of (w / wait-02)) :ARG1 (s / silverware) :ARG1-of (l2 / let-alone-91))