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Different ways of representing cross-references #9

Open anacastrosalgado opened 2 years ago

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

ABCESSO_morais_1 ABCESSO [abscess], cross-reference preceded by a v.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABCESSO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABCESSO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">.</metamark>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABCESSO.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.ABSCESSO" type="mainEntry">abſceſſo</ref>
      </xr>   
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>

Another example: JAMACARU_morais_1 JAMACARU [Cereus jamacaru], cross-reference preceded by a v.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.JAMACARU" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth norm="JAMACARU">JAMACARU’</orth>
   </form>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.JAMACARU.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBLA" type="mainEntry">urumbebla</ref>
      </xr>   
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>

ABADEJO_morais_1 ABADEJO [stag beetle], cross-reference preceded by a v., followed by a synonymic definition, a colon, v. and another cross-reference

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="VACA-LOURA" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
      </xr>
      <pc>:</pc>
   </sense>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.2">
      <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
      <ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry">Badejo</ref>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
laurentromary commented 2 years ago

Why a ":" after "veja"?

daliboris commented 2 years ago

Can we also see the referenced items, i.e. abſceſo and urumbebla?

I think the referenced is the whole entry and I don't see the reason why the cross-reference is part of the <sense> element.

Can we use this (TEI Lex-0 valid)?

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.JAMACARU" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
  <form type="lemma">
   <orth norm="JAMACARU">JAMACARU’</orth>
  </form>
  <xr type="related">
   <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
   <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBLA" type="mainEntry">urumbebla</ref>
  </xr>
  <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
laurentromary commented 2 years ago

If it has nothing to do with the sense, probably. But we have to be consistant with things like the third case above where there two senses (BTW, the ":" should not be a pc but a sense delimiter)

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Why a ":" after "veja"?

I copied the information from the abbreviations list in the front matter. V. as 3 different meanings. Looking again at the initial pages, the ":" is just a delimiter. I will remove it.

laurentromary commented 2 years ago

Just to be clear, I just suggest to have <lbl expand="veja"> instead of <lbl expand="veja:">

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Yes, I understood well :) Consider it done.

The ":" delimits the different meanings of V.: veja

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Can we also see the referenced items, i.e. abſceſo and urumbebla?

I think the referenced is the whole entry and I don't see the reason why the cross-reference is part of the <sense> element.

Can we use this (TEI Lex-0 valid)?

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.JAMACARU" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
  <form type="lemma">
   <orth norm="JAMACARU">JAMACARU’</orth>
  </form>
  <xr type="related">
   <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
   <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBLA" type="mainEntry">urumbebla</ref>
  </xr>
  <pc>.</pc>
</entry>

Yes, @daliboris . Mea culpa. In the Portuguese Academy Dictionary, the cross-references are part of the <sense> element. If I add another sense than it works better. In this case, we can leave <sense> . Urumbebla is written wrong (the correct word is urumbeba). So I correct the form in <ref>`.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.JAMACARU" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth norm="JAMACARU">JAMACARU’</orth>
   </form>
   <xr type="related">
      <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
      <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBA" type="mainEntry">urumbebla</ref>
   </xr>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>

Then we have:

URUMBEBA_morais_1

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBA" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>URUMBEBA</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">f.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.URUMBEBA.s.1">
      <def>planta de folha groſſa , e armada de pus, do Braſil</def>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

ABCESSO and ABSCESSO [abscess]

ABCESSO_morais_1

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABCESSO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABCESSO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">.</metamark>
   <xr type="related">
      <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
      <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.ABSCESSO" type="mainEntry">abſceſſo</ref>
   </xr>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>

ABSCESSO_morais1

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABSCESSO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABSCESSO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABSCESSO.s.1">
      <def>apoſtema , tumor contra a natureza , que contèm pus</def>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

And, finally, @laurentromary , a very interesting example. Thanks for pointing that out. Abadejo, badejo and vaca-loura are synonymous in Portuguese, BUT... it can be a stag beetle (Lucanus cervus) or a whiting (Merlangus merlangus). So you're right. We have here two different senses.

abadejo_imagem_3

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="VACA-LOURA" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <metamark function="senseDelimiter">:</metamark>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.2">
      <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
      <ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry">Badejo</ref>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>VACA-LOURA</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">f.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA.s.1">
      <def>abadejo inſecto</def>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
         <entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"
            xml:lang="pt">
            <form type="lemma">
               <orth>BADEJO</orth>
            </form>
            <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
            <gramGrp>
               <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
               <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
            </gramGrp>
            <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO.s.1">
               <def>peixe de grandeza meiãa , boca raſgada , dentes no interior da boca , curvos ,
                  lombo còr de chumbo, barriga branca , de eſcamas miudas , peſca-ſse na Terra Nova , e Banco de Bacalháo</def>
               <pc>(</pc>
               <note type ="scientificName">(aselli species)</note>
               <pc>)</pc>
               <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
               <ref target="BACALHAO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BACALHAO" type="mainEntry">bacalháo</ref>
            </sense>
            <pc>.</pc>
         </entry>

Should we use <note> for scientific names?

laurentromary commented 2 years ago

Don't forget the <xr> around the <lbl> and <ref> (some of them are missing. Re: <note>, rather not. It would be good to have a clear instruction concerning this. Would <gloss type ="scientificName"> do the trick?

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

You're (always) right... Fixed. And, yes, i think <gloss type ="scientificName"> is a good solution! I will try to find more examples.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="VACA-LOURA" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <metamark function="senseDelimiter">:</metamark>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.2">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry">Badejo</ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"
   xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>BADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO.s.1">
      <def>peixe de grandeza meiãa , boca raſgada , dentes no interior da boca , curvos ,
         lombo còr de chumbo, barriga branca , de eſcamas miudas , peſca-ſse na Terra Nova , e Banco de Bacalháo</def>
      <pc>(</pc>
      <gloss type ="scientificName">(aselli species)</gloss>
      <pc>)</pc>
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="BACALHAO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BACALHAO" type="mainEntry">bacalháo</ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
daliboris commented 2 years ago

Some notes:

1)

<pc>(</pc>
  <gloss type ="scientificName">(aselli species)</gloss>
<pc>)</pc>

should be: 

  <gloss type ="scientificName"><hi>(aselli species)</hi></gloss>

or

<pc>(</pc>
  <gloss type ="scientificName"><hi>aselli species</hi></gloss>
<pc>)</pc>

2)

<ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry">Badejo</ref>

should be

<ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"><hi>Badejo</hi></ref>

3)

<ref target="BACALHAO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BACALHAO" type="mainEntry">bacalháo</ref>

should be

<ref target="BACALHAO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BACALHAO" type="mainEntry"><hi>bacalháo</hi></ref>
daliboris commented 2 years ago

BUT... it can be a stag beetle (Lucanus cervus) or a whiting (Merlangus merlangus).

What do you mean by "it can be"? Do these denotatives (stag beetle, whiting) exist in the current Portuguese, or do they exist in the period language of Morais?

Sometimes I had the impression that you were trying to look at language through contemporary eyes when defining the microstructure of the dictionary. In my opinion, it is more correct to look at the dictionary through the eyes of a lexicographer of his time, which also has the consequence that the relationships between entries and parts will not correspond to the current state of knowledge of the language.

What approach do you actually take to this?

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Thanks, @daliboris . I forgot the parentheses. I should have done it like this:

<pc>(</pc>
  <gloss type ="scientificName"><hi>aselli species</hi></gloss>
<pc>)</pc>

You can also decide on the italic after we work on the stylesheet. I was thinking of doing that...

anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Fixed.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"
   xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>BADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO.s.1">
      <def>peixe de grandeza meiãa , boca raſgada , dentes no interior da boca , curvos ,
         lombo còr de chumbo, barriga branca , de eſcamas miudas , peſca-ſse na Terra Nova , e Banco de Bacalháo</def>
      <pc>(</pc>
      <gloss type ="scientificName"><hi>aselli species</hi></gloss>
      <pc>)</pc>
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="BACALHAO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BACALHAO" type="mainEntry"><hi>bacalháo</hi></ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

Also fixed.

<entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
   <form type="lemma">
      <orth>ABADEJO</orth>
   </form>
   <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
   <gramGrp>
      <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
      <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
   </gramGrp>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.1">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="VACA-LOURA" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <metamark function="senseDelimiter">:</metamark>
   <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.2">
      <xr type="related">
         <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
         <ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"><hi>Badejo</hi></ref>
      </xr>
   </sense>
   <pc>.</pc>
</entry>
anacastrosalgado commented 2 years ago

BUT... it can be a stag beetle (Lucanus cervus) or a whiting (Merlangus merlangus).

What do you mean by "it can be"? Do these denotatives (stag beetle, whiting) exist in the current Portuguese, or do they exist in the period language of Morais?

Sometimes I had the impression that you were trying to look at language through contemporary eyes when defining the microstructure of the dictionary. In my opinion, it is more correct to look at the dictionary through the eyes of a lexicographer of his time, which also has the consequence that the relationships between entries and parts will not correspond to the current state of knowledge of the language.

What approach do you actually take to this?

Yes, Boris. I'm trying to analyse the language as if I was in the 18th century :) To understand some information I always search for the mentioned units. In this case, I confirmed that we have two different senses.

daliboris commented 1 year ago

When I tried to publish the samples using TEI Publisher, I found two overlooked errors in the example:

<ref target="VACA-LOURA" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>

shoud be:

<ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
 <ref target="BADEJO" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"><hi>Badejo</hi></ref>

should be:

 <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"><hi>Badejo</hi></ref>
anacastrosalgado commented 1 year ago

Thanks, @daliboris .

            <entry xmlns="http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0" xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO" type="mainEntry" xml:lang="pt">
                <form type="lemma">
                    <orth>ABADEJO</orth>
                </form>
                <metamark function="lemmaDelimiter">,</metamark>
                <gramGrp>
                    <gram type="pos" norm="NOUN">ſ.</gram>
                    <gram type="gen">m.</gram>
                </gramGrp>
                <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.1">
                    <xr type="related">
                        <lbl expand="veja"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
                        <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.VACA-LOURA" type="mainEntry">Vaca loura</ref>
                    </xr>
                </sense>
                <metamark function="senseDelimiter">:</metamark>
                <sense xml:id="MORAIS.1.DLP.ABADEJO.s.2">
                    <xr type="related">
                        <lbl expand="veja:"><hi>v.</hi></lbl>
                        <ref target="#MORAIS.1.DLP.BADEJO" type="mainEntry"><hi>Badejo</hi></ref>
                    </xr>
                </sense>
                <pc>.</pc>
            </entry>