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What should we build? #1

Open ProLoser opened 11 years ago

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

https://plus.google.com/115485431256936261338/posts/C5DFPnHk9mk

A lot of us are becoming alarmed at the quality of posts, projects and resources popping up in the AngularJS community. The bottom line is the core team is too swamped to push 'Best Practices' or moderate anymore, and there is no officially documented best practices. It would be nice if there was a way to ensure / improve the quality of posts and projects that arise in the community through a centralized system.

Ideas that have been discussed:

Mix and match. We wouldn't want to discourage bloggers, and we know some of the best devs don't have the time to go to each blog and provide feedback (or blog themself).

CakePHP has the 'Bakery' service (although it lacks voting)

I personally have been actively working to provide a 'Best Practices' repository in the AngularJS wiki (instead of blogging) and the new book by @pkozlowski-opensource and @petebacondarwin is probably the closest thing we have now.

maciejjankowski commented 11 years ago
  1. I think the best idea would be a combination of blog posts turned "lessons".
  2. Blog has this great feature of "reminding" people there is a new content, while sites like John Lindquist vids offer a benefit of starting where you please.
  3. It must be kept up to date, because Angular is evolving so fast many examples out there are outdated.
  4. Voting is a great idea too, but I think it will push some of the material outside of reach. p.s. Democracy doesn't work - there a dictator needed.
  5. I think it might be a good idea to set an Angular "Best practices" badge bloggers could use (they should opt in and have their code reviewed) this way they could be maintained because it would be the bloggers who'd want to participate, not you chasing them to write good code :)
ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@maciejjankowski keep in mind a few things:

  1. Lots of blogs, tutorials and feeds already exist
    1. They are labeled as 'tips' or 'best practice' but contain many bad practices
    2. They are privately run
      1. This discourages others to join their project, so they start their own instead
      2. If the owners become busy, the resource becomes outdated
      3. There is no review process for their posts
  2. AngularUI is entirely democratic. I serve more the role of coordinator. UI-Router is an excellent example of just such endeavor
  3. StackOverflow and StackExchange are considered good resources and give voting to the community
  4. Egghead could add an RSS if he wanted. It's also completely run by 1 person.
  5. Solutions such as the G+ page, Brad's postings, twitter, and other crap is just a collection of 'whoever decides to spam this week' instead of a directory with best content pushed to the top
  6. People may not want to be forced into writing on our platform as they may want to keep their own blogs/whatever

Honestly, there's something to be said about ngmodules.org (in fact @jimrhoskins was added to UI when we started discussing this same exact thing almost a year ago) but it's broken, in disuse, and only covers repos.

I'm thinking that it would be best to have a directory cover these primary items:

  1. Blog Posts
  2. Repos (projects)
  3. Resources (all the rest?)

I was thinking it would be nice to have voting & pros/cons in bulleted format, so people can +1 a bullet. This way feedback is constructive (instead of comments like "it sucks") and authors can improve their work and have ratings adjusted accordingly. This was one idea anyway.

Example might be:

Resource: mean.io Votes: +23 / -3 Pros:

  • Covers full stack integration +4
  • Boilerplates with good tools (ui-bootstrap)

Cons:

  • Improper module structure
  • Long introduction tutorial (use [this resource]() instead)

Related:

  • [angular-seed]()
  • [angular-app]()
  • [ng-boilerplate]()
0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

Thanks @ProLoser for pushing this forward. One question: The example you showed above goes pretty much in a stackoverflow directino (which already has been discussed). For me, its still unclear where would be the resource itself? So there are votes, pros and cons and a "related" section (which is all very awesome). But what about the resource it itself? Is it still hosted "somewhere", so peeps are able to submit links to resources (kinda like Hacker News) or will they land in the directory?

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

I am not sure I follow your question. I figured that the site would be built with firebase or something and hosted on gh pages and maybe get linked to from the official website. I thought it would be cool to have an official ng Internet magazine but a lot of people are already trying to do that and may not like the idea, even if it is democratically run. Are you like suggesting that we create some code snippet people place directly onto their blog or repo (like those 3rd party commenting services)?

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

Or follow the bakery example and host the blog posts on this service. The difference would be we would still show posts on other blogs but unlike all other services anyone can post immediately, no "you must be illuminati" crap. Better to encourage people to write or post and then provide feedback and improve the post than to create more barriers of entry.

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser Using firebase for that would be awesome :+1: So, no I was just wondering, how submitted resources would be handled at all. So for example, how to submit a resource? Who is able to submit a resource, only "Members" or everybody? How does a submission look like? Does somebody just submit a link to a blogpost in the internet, or will the posts land in the directory somehow?

In short: would that more look like a Hacker News for Angular resources, or will the resources hosted by this whatEverItWillBecome-Site?

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

I thought it would be cool if we had a mix. Posts made directly to the service would get the benefit of having more gurus review and provide feedback, but linking off site would be supported too.

The only membership requirement would be that you have a Github account, but we would have moderators who are just people willing to spend the time doing cleanup.

I have found that I prefer the ask for forgiveness than permission approach in general.

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

In addition, I like the idea of voting resources very much! Much better then comments, although I think there should be a way to comment on resources (maybe only for voters) to have a chance to clarify, why somebody voted down or up (which is probably already covered by pros/cons).

But who will be able to vote? Everybody? Wouldn't actually make sense, since everybody could vote good things down and bad things up. So it seems that it only makes sense if "members" are able to vote. Then there's the next question, how to become a member? And also, if everybody is able to become a member, voting could be open to everyone, where we have the same problems as before.

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser A mix SGTM.

Foxandxss commented 11 years ago

First, thanks for that "tips" and bad practices sentences, sounds for me ¬¬.

I don't think that everyone can vote. People tends to vote up everything they see. Just look to any reddit page with an angular article associated, it always have 3-4 times more positive votes even if they are not that good.

Also I think that people can blog all they want to, if they are bad, they won't get any visit. I don't feel my knowledge getting worse reading bad things, I just keep the best ideas :P

pearlchen commented 11 years ago

So I'm not too sure what the best approach would be at this very moment but, off the cuff:

1) It should try to work alongside official Angular documentation.

I see the official documentation as a way to get deeper into one specific API, especially to just double-check what the signature of a method is (what parameters it accepts). I wish these pages would be more brief but with more concise and straight forward examples. Very in-and-out!

But for someone looking for more information or context, official documentation could then link out to tutorials from this project so people can see how it fits into a bigger picture.

2) The organization of tutorials/articles should be based on what people are continually asking questions about. (Maybe people can share their Google Analytics keywords so we can compile together what some of these real questions are.)

Examples:

Once we have a wide set of questions to work from, I think the best approach would be to find a good base to answer this question (whether it exists already in the official documentation or as a blog article) and then "wiki-fy" it. By wiki-fy, I mean that someone does a code/readability review on it and supplies edits. As time progresses, this article can be continually improved to reflect the latest APIs and include clearer examples.

Just some initial thoughts. I've got more ideas.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

Pinging @angular-ui on this thread.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@Foxandxss it wasn't directed at you, there's a LOT of solutions that share that name. Also, I don't know if 'they just up vote everything' is accurate. But most importantly, I'm not saying people shouldn't blog, I'm saying their visitors won't know better. They will usually have no idea about the mistakes in their work, and rather than having people go around to every blog post out there, it would be nice if we had a centralized feedback solution.

This could theoretically become an innovative solution for more than just AngularJS if executed properly.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@pchen I am not sure that the resource being the originator of content is the biggest priority. There is an issue of time / energy people are willing to expend to produce such material, and the bottom line is they are either more interested in having their own blog with their info, or they should push back to the docs/wiki. What you are describing is what I've already tried doing on the AngularJS Wiki.

I do think it would be an interesting point to get direct linking between articles and documentation.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

Would be nice to get feedback from the @angular team

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser A general feedback solution that not only works for angular resources. I'm sure this could become a big thing. And yea having feedback from the core team would would be nice.

jimrhoskins commented 11 years ago

I like the initiative @ProLoser

I had a lot of the same motivations when building up ngmodules.org. Sadly as is often the case work and personal stuff got in the way of me being able to maintain it as much as I would have liked. It's already open sourced, but I'd happily contribute the database and domain name(s) to this project if people think it could be a good resource.

adamnemecek commented 11 years ago

I feel like what's missing is some sort of larger scale demo application where angular's strengths and best practices could be shown. I'm thinking of some sort of twitter clone to follow Rails Tutorial's suit. I'm aware of builtwith.angularjs.com but none of the open source projects there (or at least the ones I've seen) both a.) are larger scale and b.) follow best practices. Like articles about best practices are all good and dandy but at the end of the day, it's code that matters.

richardcrichardc commented 11 years ago

Lead by example. Provide a clear standard and people will follow.

Get someone in the the core team who's job is to write articles/examples/documentation etc posting on the official Angular blog. They will be close enough to the core developers to be in the loop and get feedback before posting etc.

If you find good posts up to the 'standard', link to them from the main blog.

This person will also have time to ensure communication from the core team about key issues is clear and concise. I've been confused about when 1.2 was coming out, , I thought it was about 3 months ago. There was that big announcement and video, then it never turned up, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.

Omnipresent commented 11 years ago

I concur. I think what is required is a real world application built with AngularJS. New features could be added to this application as AngularJS improves or people could send pull requests to improve how a certain feature has been implemented. I came across this very detailed AngularJS tutorial http://www.thinkster.io/AngularTutorial . I think there is a lot of value in something like this being backed by Angular officially.

dylang commented 11 years ago

I'd like to see some kind of jslint/jshint/eslint tool that I can run via grunt as I'm working and it can help me when I'm not following best practices. nglint?

saada commented 11 years ago

Screencasts + Collaborative projects.... In my opinion what the Angular community lacks is provision of complex projects with screencasts to tutor viewers... What if we all worked together on sample apps. Not just TODOMVC... Something bigger... To show the real power of Angular directives, and all its features!

EricSimons commented 11 years ago

Hey all - so a lot of this is pretty much in line with what we're doing at Thinkster.io. I see a few folks in previous comments have linked to our tutorial & AngularJS curriculum, so a few of you are familiar with our format. If not, take a look at http://www.thinkster.io and poke around. Basically, we've built an awesome curriculum & tutorial that not only teaches you the concepts behind AngularJS but also how to use them in a real world application.

Within the next few weeks we're going to be opening up our author tools to a few key folks in the AngularJS community, and we've come up with some ways to only allow quality posts to be surfaced. Since we're already working on this full time and have a lot of traffic, it might make sense for this initiative to be tested on the upcoming release of our platform. We'd be more than happy to give author privileges to everyone in this group.

Foxandxss commented 11 years ago

Thanks but I still wants to run my own blog, with or without bad practices :P

EricSimons commented 11 years ago

That's totally fine - we're more like Medium.com than Wordpress. The collaborative & networked nature is what we find particularly appealing in this approach, as creating exceptionally good content is always done with the help of others.

martindale commented 11 years ago

Maybe this isn't quite the right place for this, but I think this might be the perfect fit my startup, @coursefork. We're trying to build a series of "best practices" walkthroughs for common tech, like Angular. This is especially interesting to us because we're evaluating Angular, but have been having our own problems finding guidance on how to do Angular "right"...

@EricSimons maybe we can start with your [impressively well-built!] content; would you be willing to open-license the material, and maybe work together with us to figure out what a open-content Thinkster looks like?

tl;dr: open-source all the things, knowledge & education firstly.

EricSimons commented 11 years ago

Coursefork! I got introduced to one of your founders a few months ago but was so busy with Thinkster that I never got a time to chat lined up. Anyway, we should chat about all of this. We're pretty focused on continuing the development of Thinkster, but we haven't ruled out open sourcing the curriculum we've made.

brianfryer commented 11 years ago

I'm surprised that pineapple.io hasn't been mentioned:

A central hub of Tutorials, Tools and Assets for developers and designers

There's already an Angular #tag in use, too.

pearlchen commented 11 years ago

@martindale I don't know how I missed your launch of coursefork. I started development of codehuddle.org late last year but started a new FT job earlier this year that didn't leave much time for side projects.

Open Educational Resources has been growing in non-technical edu for a while. Nice to see it trending in tech training now too.

logicbomb commented 11 years ago

We could use http://codereview.stackexchange.com with a specific tag (such as ng-community-review) to vet code before posting it to a blog. Blog posts could then link to the question on codereview so readers can see what the angular community thinks of the code being posted. Noone has to spend any money or any time to set this up (except to create the tag), there is no bottleneck in that no single person (or group) is responsible for vetting code, someone motivated enough could probably create a widget that bloggers could add to their site using Stack Exchange's API (http://api.stackexchange.com/docs).

We could start with my submission for a codereview: http://codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/30543/my-first-oss-software-angularjs-drag-drop-please-review-code-and-documentation

ghost commented 11 years ago

It must be kept up to date, because Angular is evolving so fast many examples out there are outdated.

@maciejjankowski someone commented on one of the api docs pages that there should be loads more examples that can be run using jsfiddle or something else. It would be nice if it were closer to the jQuery api docs which usually have at least two examples.

If there isn't already a PlanetAngularJS, it should be setup. Other sites have this and it really helps because it gathers a lot of sites into one feed. Planet Lisp is an example, as is Planet GNOME.

@logicbomb I like the idea of using CodeReview on StackExchange.

This kind of community building has been done before. We need only to look at what other communities have done and follow their examples.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@richardcrichardc Brad links quite often to blog posts, but I've found lots of them are lacking in quality. No ONE individual has the time to review ALL posts, especially the core team who no longer even keeps up with the community.

@adamnemecek I am not proposing a new demo site. Lots of people are free to try to tackle that specific problem. And even afterwards many will continue to do so. Angular-app is the best example of a scalable app design, and I plan to release my own very top-secret demo project soon which is massively scalable.

@dylang some issues with practices are not lintable, such as how modules are spliced or where code is placed. Angular is not a language, it's a framework, and I know of no such linting tools for frameworks. It's too high level.

@saada have you not seen egghead? I'm confident he will continue producing good screencasts, and I believe there is a plethora of existing ones out there.

@EricSimons Thinkster is not open. It's maintained by one (or few) person(s). It already includes several anti-patterns and there is no ability to vote/rate/review/submit. You are also only allowing those you deem fit to collaborate. I want to point out to everyone that what I'm talking about is a fully democratic solution. I don't want blogs or feeds fighting with each other. I want a directory where third-party content isn't discarded. Ng-newsletter and ng-magazine do a better job of this, but they are completely run by 1 individual respectively.

@logicbomb code review is very cool, but again the core and ui teams don't have time to review every person who's asking us to look at their code. If we can keep review down to those who are trying to release their work as quality material, it would make it POSSIBLE for gurus to review them. I no longer am capable of keeping up with G+, Twitter, SO, IRC and the Groups to answer every question thrown our way.

WHAT EVERYONE MUST REMEMBER IS THAT ALMOST ALL OF WHAT YOU ASK FOR ALREADY EXISTS!

The key is that there is no 1 location to find all of them. People don't KNOW they exist.

Actually, @brianfryer's link is probably the best example of this

TL;DR:

We are NOT building a blog or tutorial site, we are NOT reviewing requests for help. ALL of those exist today.

We need a CENTRAL DIRECTORY where people can discover and review other content distributors. And it should not be owned by gurus or officials. It should be open and run by everyone.

adamnemecek commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser I mean I thought that the point of this whole discussion was to come up with an idea which would introduce best practices to the angular community. How is that supposed to be achieved with independent developers creating independent angular projects which are unlikely to employ best practices? And surely you joking that you consider angular-app a large project. And I'm not talking about a demo site, it's more like case study or something.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@adamnemecek it's actually part of a book written by @petebacondarwin and @pkozlowski-opensource that took them so long to finish that their code became popular before the book even got released. So there sort of IS a best-practices out there. People are just labeling their stuff as 'best practice' without following them.

logicbomb commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser - I proposed CodeReview specifically to open the review process to anyone, so the core team members would be free to review or not as their workload permits. I think CodeReview is more appropriate than StackOverflow for the type of peer review I thought you were talking about.

Bear in mind that angularjs has hit a critical mass and it is impossible to ensure it is always used "properly". Think about how many people misuse established languages like C# or Java. It's impossible for mainstream technologies to be used up to the exacting standards of the authors, gurus and early adopters.

Even with a Central Directory people will continue to write poor angular, others will continue to exercise bad practices, and others will learn to use the framework well without ever having looked at it.

Anyway, is your idea of a Central Directory a wikki that people submit blog posts/tutorials/etc too?

martindale commented 11 years ago

@EricSimons that'd be @eah13 (Elliott)! Shoot me an email at eric@coursefork.org and we'll get started.

@pchen thanks! We hope that by starting with tech-oriented education, we can really figure out what's needed to transform the entire education industry by interacting with people who can give us the best feedback. That's one of the reasons we think an Angular core community would make sense for us!

@logicbomb wrote: Anyway, is your idea of a Central Directory a wikki that people submit blog posts/tutorials/etc too?

This. This is exactly what we're building with @coursefork. We're creating the pull request for courses. We want to make every guide open and forkable, so the community has better access to maintain and customize the educational material.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@logicbomb are you referring to the stack overflow one? As I said, this means reviewing bugs and errors and just general code. We don't have the time/energy for that amount of content. If it was restricted to just materials being 'published' such as tutorials, plugins, etc, it would be less content to go through.

Also, wiki's already exist. They get outdated quickly: https://github.com/angular/angular.js/wiki/Resources

@martindale interesting. However, you're still going to have alternative tutorials everywhere else.

My point is angular can't have an official tutorial unless it's in the docs All others should be treated equally, and have the ability to be compared and contrasted. Some people might not want a MEAN stack, etc. You can't have 1 tutorial cover everything.

For people claiming x site is best practice or that best practices don't exist:

Seriously, do I need to just make a freaking checklist or something? All of these involved core team members

EricSimons commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser I said in my previous comment that we're opening up the Thinkster authoring tools to the public, so it's going to be democratic. That said, what you're describing is probably not a good fit for what we're doing. I appreciate you inviting us to this discussion and we'd love to help in any way we can. Also, we welcome any criticism to our content, especially if it's paired with constructive feedback that will make our learning resources better. We all want to make learning AngularJS better, so it's worth pointing out that we're all playing for the same team.

@martindale Will do - looking forward to chatting :)

jmstout commented 11 years ago

I'm really glad this discussion is being had. From my perspective, it seems that there is somewhat of a consensus about the need for two things:

Wouldn't it be best to try for two birds with one stone?

I wouldn't expect the angular-ui team to take this on, as I imagine time is already precious.

Perhaps a group of more intermediate angular developers could spearhead this, striving to utilize the good resources that are, and continue to become, available: best practices, wiki, the new book, etc.

I agree with @ProLoser in his thinking that the resulting website / resource should be as democratic as possible, with the exception of allowing experienced devs promote content they feel is worthy, à la Hacker News.

Also the guide / api and case study should be a community effort, created on github. This way contributions are made via pull request so proper deliberation can occur over standards, best practices, and recommendations.

Then there's the doing it part.

What do you guys think, is a new effort needed? Or should utilizing options that are already available be the priority?

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@jimrhoskins so what's the situation with ngmodules? It seems like a start of a directory. Pineapple is very cool, but would that be a good 'defacto' directory compared to just having an official angular one?

clouddueling commented 11 years ago

After reading some of the links posted here and comparing with my work I just realized (being new to angularjs) how many bad practices I've picked up from searching google and stackoverflow.

From the time I started AngularJS and now the number of tutorials have almost tripled, which is fantastic but the quality is not there because I don't think there is a "standard" for AngularJS.

The best comparison I could make is the way that (Laravel and PHP-FIG) is to PHP. With those two resources I can develop "good" PHP applications fairly quickly. This doesn't exist for Angular but does for jQuery. I think that's partly due to code maturity. 1.20 just came out and has a whole host of changes in it, but I still can't go somewhere like:

jQuery: http://www.lynda.com/jQuery-tutorials/essential-training/48370-2.html Javascript: http://teamtreehouse.com/library/websites/javascript-foundations Laravel4: http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/laravel-4-mastery/

And get a good knowledge of the subject.

I think Egghead is the closest to creating what Angular really needs: http://egghead.io/lessons He should get on Gittip so we can invest in him or another project with similar goals.

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

There ARE best practices. People don't read them. The best practices are in the wiki, on egghead, the best practice meetup, and in the new AngularJS book.

Period. On Sep 4, 2013 11:08 AM, "CloudDueling.com" notifications@github.com wrote:

After reading some of the links posted here and comparing with my work I just realized (being new to angularjs) how many bad practices I've picked up from searching google and stackoverflow.

From the time I started AngularJS and now the number of tutorials have almost tripled, which is fantastic but the quality is not there because I don't think there is a "standard" for AngularJS.

The best comparison I could make is the way that (Laravel and PHP-FIG) is to PHP. With those two resources I can develop "good" PHP applications fairly quickly. This doesn't exist for Angular but does for jQuery. I think that's partly due to code maturity. 1.20 just came out and has a whole host of changes in it, but I still can't go somewhere like:

jQuery: http://www.lynda.com/jQuery-tutorials/essential-training/48370-2.html Javascript: http://teamtreehouse.com/library/websites/javascript-foundations Laravel4: http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/php/laravel-4-mastery/

And get a good knowledge of the subject.

I think Egghead is the closest to creating what Angular really needs: http://egghead.io/lessons He should get on Gittip so we can invest in him or another project with similar goals.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/angular-ui/community/issues/1#issuecomment-23810930 .

logicbomb commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser what do you want to accomplish with this thread? When I first read it, I thought you were soliciting ideas for how to encourage the dissemination of best practices, but it seems that every time someone offers up an idea you shoot it down saying a similar resource already exists. What are you looking to get out of this thread, and what are you asking from those of us that an expressed an interest in contributing?

joemaddalone commented 11 years ago

Well - I personally hate to see things left on that note. @logicbomb , I think @ProLoser was pretty clear when he said "We need a CENTRAL DIRECTORY where people can discover and review other content distributors."

revolunet commented 11 years ago

Thanks @ProLoser for the great initiative and all for comments.

There's indeed many AngularJS ressources on the net, with various quality level, and it would be very useful to have a central place where we can vote, comment, and correct or enhance these entries.

The authors could then understand their mistakes, improve their knowledge, and fix their content accordingly and stop spreading bad practices if any.

The "best practices" exists for sure, but pointing out bad practices by example, then explaining why its bad and how to fix it is very pedagogical to me.

Unfortunately there's no way yet to vote on issues on github, but GH issues could be an easy tool to list, group and comment on various ressources. We can try with one of my "tips and tricks" blog post that for sure needs elite feedback ? Once fixed and approved, a ressource could then unlock the "best practice" label :)

Angular community rocks !

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

Unfortunately there's no way yet to vote on issues on github, but GH issues

@revolunet And there will never be a way. Voting on GH issues was implemented a long time ago and wasn't really used by people so they put it out again. :(

revolunet commented 11 years ago

how sh\ i was dreaming of that feature in a next release. sounded useful to me; /cc @holman

ProLoser commented 11 years ago

@logicbomb sorry, yeah my last message probably left a wrong impression.

The conversation has been wavering between 2 major topics:

I don't think simply creating another 'best practice tutorials' site is the answer. Most of the current UI team and I don't have time to write, so this would mean getting content-creators to close shop and come write for/with us instead and I doubt creators like @Foxandxss or @johnlindquist are interested in that. It would be cool for the tool to ALSO have on-site official posts/content, but it should not be the primary focus.

@PascalPrecht @revolunet actually, we started working on adding it back: https://github.com/ksheedlo/firebase-hackathon but I've been the only active person lately. It adds a layer of metadata (of any kind) to github issues, and I was going to create a chrome extension to go alongside it.

The status so far

I am going to be meeting with @EricSimons and his team friday to discuss Thinkster. I'd like to hear back from @jimrhoskins because I think we could leverage all of his work so far on ngmodules. I've even tried to talk to content-creators like @Foxandxss and @johnlindquist so that they won't feel like their content will be ignored, overshadowed, or like they would be forced to give up their domain and Intellectual Property.

0x-r4bbit commented 11 years ago

@ProLoser This looks pretty interesting!

clouddueling commented 11 years ago

Something worth noting in the Laravel PHP world at this very moment. Jeffrey Way (similar role as John Lindquist) is in the middle of building up http://laracasts.com/forum/ and is building up a central area of learning material and community.

The Laravel community is flocking to him, the guy's good so I don't blame them. He's also charging $7 per month so he can maintain motivation to continue building that community.