arkhometha / Historical-Project-Mod

A mod for Victoria 2 - Heart of Darkness 3.04
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[BUG] Cores Causing Silly Behavior in North America #201

Open Mouseasel opened 4 years ago

Mouseasel commented 4 years ago

System Information:

Describe the bug Issues with cored and non-cored territory causing strange behavior, resulting in strange borders and wars, particularly after the Web-Ashburton Treaty (or in this case "the American Liberation of British New England/the Maritimes) and the Mexican-American War.

To Reproduce Example 1:

  1. When the Web-Ashburton Treaty event appears as the United States, choose "the United States does not compromise".
  2. This should give the United States a core on Petit-Sault, and the United Kingdom a core on Bangor. Win this war, take your cored territory. However you will have to add a war goal for either the Maritimes or New England to get them both. And you will have to take the Maritimes as there is no way to only take Petit-Sault, even with the "return non-cored territory" event that fires, which seems to not work.
  3. A few years down the line, the United Kingdom will suddenly declare war on you to "Liberate New England". Yet oddly enough, have lost all interest in the Maritimes. Even if you somehow managed to only take Petit-Sault from the Maritimes state ... this would result in very strange borders if the U.K. were successful, and is doubly strange considering they don't even have a core on the rest of the Maritimes besides Petit-Sault.

Example 2:

  1. Begin to Mexican-American war. Win.
  2. Sign the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo to remove Mexico's cores from your newly conquered territories.
  3. Notice that Tucson (of Arizona) and Animas (of New Mexico) have been ceded back to Mexico because the United States doesn't have a core on them like everywhere else, resulting in inaccurate borders. This can also occur when returning non-cored territories back with the event that auto-fires after each war where land is taken.

Expected behavior For example 1: More of a suggestion, but the U.K. or U.S. should lose their claims to these 3 territories (Bangor, Petit-Sault, Caribou) depending upon who wins the war. However, I do expect the U.S. to NOT annex the entirety of the Maritimes just to acquire its core on Petit-Sault, just as I would NOT expect the U.K. to annex all of New England just to acquire its core on Bangor, as it tried to.

For example 2: I expect not to lose Tucson or Animas after signing the treaty or after agreeing to cede non-cored land with the auto-firing event, and for there to be cores on these territories like everywhere else taken from Mexico.

Screenshots https://i.imgur.com/C4x4mWv.png - See British core on Bangor. Years after the first war ended, they launched a seemingly surprise attack that pulled myself and all of my and their allies into war just to liberate New England and New England only. https://i.imgur.com/ZxvhgnZ.png - Before treaty. https://i.imgur.com/ZlB5mWI.png - After treaty.

LoneCrusader2002 commented 4 years ago

Actually, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo borders are correct. The two other provinces are acquired later via the Gadsden Purchase. (Would be interesting to see some potential alt-history variations on these two; such as the boundary proposed by Jefferson Davis, especially if one plans to become the CSA when the War of Northern Aggression is triggered.)

I agree the Webster-Ashburton treaty decisions/events need work, but the historical situation was actually deeper and more complicated than what is easily simulated... Based on some previous research I did some time ago, IMO, the US should control Bangor AND Petit-Sault at the beginning; the governor of Maine actually called out the militia and had them occupy the disputed territory in the "Aroostook War." (One a side note, that article also implies it's clear now that the full American claim was the correct one.) The British possibly should control Grand Portage in Minnesota, since this area was under dispute as well (the full American claim in this area would encompass a section of the Thunder Bay province). Signing the Webster-Ashburton as the US should thus trade Petit-Sault for Grand Portage. Not signing it; well, that's more complicated and harder to project as it's ahistorical. Going down the alt-history path here might include some event chain for the Caroline Affair, or some other way for the US to more directly support the "Canadian Rebellions" of 1837-1838. Based on some sources, this was a possibility up until the new Harrison/Tyler administration in 1841 (Secretary of State Webster was pro-British, his predecessor was anti-British.) (Ref. The Jacksonian Era, p. 172 (p. 204 on the slider).

It should also be noted in this context that there's no mechanism for getting the British cores off the Oregon Territory if you choose "54-40 or Fight" as the USA and win the war; I assume the reverse is also true for Britain.

Mouseasel commented 4 years ago

Very interesting info! Definitely not as simple as I thought it was. I look forward to seeing how the US-UK border situation develops in the mod given I also agree, it could use expanding and improving.

As for the US-Mexico border, that's good to hear it's not a bug then after all and I just hadn't got the event for it yet.

Thanks for the reply!


From: LoneCrusader2002 notifications@github.com Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020, 2:07 AM To: arkhometha/Historical-Project-Mod Cc: Mouseasel; Author Subject: Re: [arkhometha/Historical-Project-Mod] [BUG] Cores Causing Silly Behavior in North America (#201)

Actually, the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo borders are correct. The two other provinces are acquired later via the Gadsden Purchase. (Would be interesting to see some potential alt-history variations on these two; such as the boundary proposed by Jefferson Davishttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Guadalupe_Hidalgo#Changes_to_the_treaty_and_ratification, especially if one plans to become the CSA when the War of Northern Aggression is triggered.)

I agree the Webster-Ashburton treaty decisions/events need work, but the historical situation was actually deeper and more complicated than what is easily simulated... Based on some previous research I did some time ago, IMO, the US should control Bangor AND Petit-Sault at the beginning; the governor of Maine actually called out the militia and had them occupy the disputed territory in the "Aroostook Warhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aroostook_War." (One a side note, that article also implies it's clear now that the full American claim was the correct one.) The British possibly should control Grand Portage in Minnesota, since this area was under dispute as well (the full American claim in this area would encompass a section of the Thunder Bay province). Signing the Webster-Ashburton should trade Petit-Sault for Grand Portage. Not signing it; well, that's more complicated and harder to project as it's ahistorical. Going down the alt-history path here might include some event chain for the Caroline Affairhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_affair, or some other way for the US to more directly support the "Canadian Rebellions" of 1837-1838. Based on some sources, this was a possibility up until the new Administration (Webster was pro-British, his predecessor was anti-British.) (Ref. The Jacksonian Erahttps://archive.org/details/jacksonianera182006524mbp/page/n203/mode/2up, p. 172 (p. 204 on the slider)

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