Closed aadcg closed 1 year ago
Fair enough! :) Do you have a specific suggestion in mind?
The following possible concrete actions come to my mind. The points below are a matter of PR, but important nonetheless (especially for the future release of 3.0).
I agree with all your points! :)
@jmercouris ?
I know that you agree Pierre :-D
I am however of a different mentality. If we don't take ourselves seriously, if we don't think our product is good. Who does? Why should they listen to us? I mean this is largely a cultural thing. As a generalization: Northern Europeans tend to understate things, and Americans tend to overstate things.
Perhaps it is hubris, perhaps the gods shall punish us. I don't know. I would be OK with removing the word "Power browser" and calling it the hacker's browser
. This still encompasses all things I wish to say. We could also consider the hackable browser
.
I don't think it's about not taking ourselves seriously, quite the opposite: bragging over the top translates into insecurity in my opinion. If we want to be serious, gotta be real.
Also I find it less self-entitled to describe the product and not the audience. Let the audience decide for themselves if they want to consider themselves "power users", "hackers", "tech enthusiasts" or what not.
I like the hackable browser
.
I agree with @Ambrevar.
I'd be careful with any anything related to "hacking". We know what the "hacking culture" is, but most people (including our users) don't. Those who identify themselves with the culture won't feel less at home by the lack of "memes" and anecdotes.
The more "elite" or "niche" we try to be, the more we harm ourselves.
Regarding taking ourselves seriously, I agree that we need to be decisive and resolute. In that regard, we need to start sharing the word offline. I believe I'd be able to visit some universities, companies or meetups in Portugal to deliver a 1-hour presentation.
Now that we have @lansingthomas, he can help us in this front too.
Sorry for the long essay here. I have been thinking about Nyxt's value proposition... I provide a few specific questions in comments below to move the discussion forward.
for those who believe (__), we see you. And we assert (___)
for those with a long list of online tasks, a long list of search results only gets you so far. We assert that computationally augmented browsing is far superior for modern Internet work, and Nyxt is a free and fantastic access point for that experience.
hackable browser
sounds okay to me. The concept of hacking in our messaging I like.hack
and hacking
are all negative and I think that they have this wrong. For Nyxt's audience -- hacking is a good thing.
Neil Stephenson (Snowcrash et al.), metaverse, Hackernews, and hacker culture are all cool right now. (build for what is, not for what will be -- its good timing!)
knowledge extraction engine
sounds better to me.knowledge extraction engine
seems like it works out of the box. I don't feel the need to hack
it before it works. This is very good. power browser
i do not likethe Internet on your terms
I do not like.window manager browser integration', or
in browser text editor---- I don't think that this user is going to be moved by
the internet on your terms` -- they are already taking matters into their own hands, they need a tool, not the idea of doing things their own way.(I have bolded the few that I think are most important -- and should be part of our message)
Paths to open-source values and self-transcendence Aligns with value: Transparency Emancipates from surveillance capitalism and tedious browsers
Enables computationally augmented browsing Stay in focused flow (minimized distraction) Rewards with personalized custom fixes Feels nostalgic for the digital brutalism aesthetic Represents a nerdy status achievement Enables micro-niche workflows Entertains the Build Your Own Worlders Embodies open source philosophy Provides programmable access for code-builders to the web
Hope for complete understanding of digital world Self-actualization as a computer professional / digital native / tech wizard Motivates learning {web tool building, Lisp, emacs, …} Motivates customization of digital spaces Affiliates with super-mega geeks Creates a sense of ownership in digital environments Avoids worry/concern over future work Sings freedom for users (nothing off limits)
Saves time for online tasks Simplifies online tasks Classifies data/information {builds models of understanding} Integrates with other tools {window managers, text editors, AI tools, ...} Connects disparate browsing structures {history, annotations, tags, bookmarks, …} Sensorily appeals to keyboard enthusiasts Sensorily appeals to digital minimalists Minimizes distractions Avoids hassles online Reduces effort for online tasks Teaches and practices Common Lisp Teaches and practices buffers Provides some variety for computer enthusiasts Prototypes customizations live (without compiling) Provides quest-able environment to learn digital customizations Provides longevity of effort with macros for dynamic code generation Self-documents and introspects (glass box v black box) Emulates beloved features from other browsers Blocks advertisements Searches natively with any search engine Re-finds ongoing tasks Re-surfaces ongoing tasks Reminds ongoing tasks navigates the web extracts information from the Internet Presents source-code for introspection Presents source-code for modification Presents source-code for customization
Would you include anything else in this (hopefully comprehensive) declaration of value? {functional, emotional, life changing, social}?
Which of these elements of value are the most important in your view? (we should try to narrow our focus)
TLDR; take ourselves seriously, call it knowledge extraction engine
until someone thinks of something better, perhaps agree on what we think the real value of Nyxt might be.
@Ambrevar @jmercouris @aadcg @aartaka
I notice that dictionary definitions of hack and hacking are all negative and I think that they have this wrong. For Nyxt's audience -- hacking is a good thing.
Sadly, hacking is now perceived as "cracking". In short, hacking can be defined as playful cleverness (it does not always need to be "useful"). You may be interested in reading "Hackers: Heroes of the Computer Revolution" by Steven Levy. It's the best book I know that explores the hacker culture.
TLDR; take ourselves seriously, call it knowledge extraction engine until someone thinks of something better, perhaps agree on what we think the real value of Nyxt might be.
While I agree with many of the points that you're making, perhaps even "knowledge extraction engine" is a bit narrow. It gives the idea that you're a passive user, and all you do is extracting knowledge. But Nyxt equally allows users to synthesize new pieces of knowledge (well, that's the goal at least)!
Also, while Nyxt is arguably better at extracting knowledge from the Internet than other web browsers, those too could be labelled as such. Think of the Web/Internet, a knowledge repository, as a marble quarry. Web browsers are the tools to allows users to fetch the raw material and some limited level of sculpting. I think that our value (the problem we're solving) is as follows: serious sculptors use mainstream web browsers (there's no alternative), since it's their gateway to the chunks of marble. But then, they take it to their own ateliers where they can use their own set of tools. Our proposition is that you can have the atelier where you fetch marble.
We should not forget that the Internet is much more than a knowledge repository too. It's used for bookkeeping, communication and so many other things!
I agree with points of André, both about hacking as a mostly negative term and knowledge extraction as too narrow. That's why we kind of have these vague slogans like "Internet on your terms": we are Internet citizens, but also a more involved and productive kind of citizens in most of activities that we participate in, not only in knowledge extraction.
A marketing and positioning statement is not about capturing all possibilities. It is about saying something strong that you specialize. A hamburger at Mcdonald's is also tasty, but they sell it as "fast!".
Fair, yes.
This is a subject for @jmercouris and @lansingthomas. Nothing to be done here.
Nyxt defines itself to be a web browser that is "infinitely extensible".
I find that "infinitely" is redundant, since the concept of extensibility already makes clear that users can get more than what's available out of the box. However, there's a dimension of Nyxt that could be emphasized.
Nyxt isn't a program that you can "simply" change the source code and generate a derived work. Rather, it makes an honest effort to "babysit" the users and let every knob be easily tweakable.
Therefore, I suggest highlighting "extensibility" and "introspectability" that Nyxt provides out of the box, even for the less technical users.