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avrdudes / avrdude

AVRDUDE is a utility to program AVR microcontrollers
GNU General Public License v2.0
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PICKit 5 support #1367

Closed mcuee closed 1 year ago

mcuee commented 1 year ago

Microchip has released PICKit 5 as an upgrade to PICKit 4. At US$94.99 it seems to be a decent tool to work with Microchip MCUs incuding AVRs. https://www.microchip.com/en-us/development-tool/PG164150

MCUdude commented 1 year ago

I wasn't aware that the PICkit5 has already been released!

@xedbg how similar is this to the PICkit4? Is there still a "PIC" and an "AVR" mode? If it "speaks" the same EDBG protocol as the SNAP/PK4, it shouldn't be too tricky to add Avrdude support, which would be really cool to have in the following, 7.2 release!

xedbg commented 1 year ago

@MCUdude - The PICkit5 to my knowledge supports only the native "PIC" mode, and has implemented AVR (and ARM) support in that mode using a system of byte-code scripts which are drawn from XML within the tool-pack. This means that it is only supported in MPLAB (and not Studio, or any other CMSIS-DAP-enabled third-party IDE) and even if the protocol were to be published, would unfortunately require a non-trivial amount of work to get it into avrdude. Also FYI: from MPLABX 6.10, the PICkit4 and Snap will also use this mode for AVR devices. But the AVR mode still exists in those tools, and Studio will switch them into that mode automatically.

MCUdude commented 1 year ago

Thanks for the info @xedbg! Do you know if the PICkit4 will be discontinued soon?

The PICkit5 to my knowledge supports only the native "PIC" mode, and has implemented AVR (and ARM) support in that mode using a system of byte-code scripts which are drawn from XML within the tool-pack. This means that it is only supported in MPLAB (and not Studio, or any other CMSIS-DAP-enabled third-party IDE) and even if the protocol were to be published, would unfortunately require a non-trivial amount of work to get it into avrdude.

From our perspective, that's a real bummer. And the fact that it's not supported by Studio tells me that for an AVR developer, the PICkit4 is for now a better choice. And yes, implementing this (new or EDBG derived?) protocol requires a substantial amount of work even if the protocol were to be published.

However, if/when the protocol is released, I hope there will be Avrdude support for it in the future. With all the new features added to Avrdude terminal mode recently, it has not turned into a very potent CLI tool that can be used for way more than just flashing binaries.

But the AVR mode still exists in those tools, and Studio will switch them into that mode automatically.

Excellent, I hope this feature doesn't get removed then. I even remember discussing adding this PIC/AVR switching feature to Avrdude. That's still on the Avrdude "features wanted" list, but it required a lot of research, and other things had higher priority.

xedbg commented 1 year ago

I don't disagree with your view @MCUdude. I can't comment on the PICkit4 supply situation - there have been many EOLed products in recent times due to component sourcing issues though...

mcuee commented 1 year ago

I don't disagree with your view @MCUdude. I can't comment on the PICkit4 supply situation - there have been many EOLed products in recent times due to component sourcing issues though...

Microchip.com shows zero stock for PICKit 4, but I just checked Mouser Singapore and they show 3624 in stock. https://www.mouser.sg/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology/PG164140?qs=r5DSvlrkXmLKDuYNJImLWw%3D%3D

PICKit 5 has not reached here in Singapore yet. https://www.mouser.sg/ProductDetail/Microchip-Technology/PG164150?qs=ulEaXIWI0c8vHVWqoqZ8Uw%3D%3D

mcuee commented 1 year ago

Merged into https://github.com/avrdudes/avrdude/issues/1367

xedbg commented 1 year ago

FYI https://www.microchip.com/product-change-notifications/#/19745/CFAN-12EBFB824 The catalog part number (CPN) PG164140 has moved to End of Life (EOL). This catalog part number will no longer be offered after Sept 1, 2023. The replacement part number is: PG164150

MCUdude commented 1 year ago

The PICkit4 is going EOL? That's bad news for us... Let's hope we'll see PICkit5 support Avrdude in the future. I'll argue that Avrdude is the best CLI programmer for AVR devices, and it would be a shame if the next generation of programmers wouldn't be supported.

stefanrueger commented 1 year ago

shame if the next generation of programmers wouldn't be supported

Is there a path for AVRDUDE to support PICKit4/5? @xedbg mentioned a closed protocol that is likely to be non-trivial. Both of which I consider a serious drawback of the programmer.

MCUdude commented 1 year ago

@stefanrueger PICkit4 is already supported by Avrdude, but it is the ICE4, ICD5, and PICkit5 that are not supported (not even by Microchip Studio) due to the different protocol.

I don't think there is any public documentation regarding the new protocol, so there's not much we "dudes" can do yet. I hope Microchip remembers us, and the importance of Avrdude to all developers that prefer to work outside a proprietary IDE.

Bottom line: I think everyone would benefit from extended support for the new Microchip programmers; especially Microchip themselves!

mcuee commented 1 year ago

It is said future version of Microchip Studio will support PICkit 5. https://forum.microchip.com/s/topic/a5C3l000000BpyJEAS/t391312

MCUdude commented 1 year ago

It is said future version of Microchip Studio will support PICkit 5.

That's good to know! Then maybe, maybe there's a chance someone from the Microchip/Atmel division can help out in the future.