ghost
commented
3 years ago I like your suggestion @stpaultim. It sounds reasonable and clear.
But I'm also ok with just sending this to the PMC. Sometimes I feel like participating in long discussions in issues, proposing ideas and then having them shot down (either because people just don't like your good ideas, or because they're actually bad ideas), leads to a sense of apathy. People who are fired up about an idea initially lose interest when the discussion drags on and in the end just give up on the idea altogether. I feel that's kind of what happened with me in the discussion about the clear log messages button - I just got to the point where I'm like, whatever, you decide.
So that's my only concern with letting the discussion drag on. But if we do want community concensus before getting the PMC involved, then I like your plan (set date, poll, etc.).
jenlampton
olafgrabienski
findlabnet
I am creating this issue to discuss a possible path towards making a decision on the "Changes to Core/Basis CSS" topic. Opening a new issue in this queue, because how we make the decision is a community decision, not a code decision. Also, that issue is busy enough already. Hoping that this decision might also help model how to handle other controversial issues in the core issue queue.
When I raised the "Changes to Core/Basis CSS" issue in the meeting today, it was my intent to discuss a path towards making some kind of decision. I'm concerned that right now, having no decision (ambiguity) on this issue is worse than any of the proposed options or worse than making a decision to leave things as they are. It feels like the PMC may need to get involved, but I'd first like to verify that some kind of consensus is not possible.
Today's discussion offered some hope that there might still be another option that we haven't fully considered yet, but we can't wait for the mystery option forever. Discussion on the issue itself (https://github.com/backdrop/backdrop-issues/issues/4167) does not appear to be moving in the direction of a consensus (at this time).
I'm inclined to propose the following.
1) That we continue to discuss this through a set date (maybe the end of Nov - maybe until just after the next release).
2) At the pre-determined date, we list the best options available (including the option of taking no action) and poll those involved in the issue on the options they prefer (possibly asking them to rank the options in their order of preference). This would be a non-binding poll (not a vote) to get a sense of whether or not a consensus is possible.
The purpose of this poll is to find out if people who are uncomfortable with specific proposals, might still prefer those proposals over existing alternatives and/or no action at all - and thus push us towards a consensus.
3) If we are close to a consensus, we try to finalize that consensus and create a PR. If we don't appear to be anywhere close to a consensus, we ask the PMC to make some kind of decision on how to handle this issue.
NOTE: I'm suggesting a poll as a tool towards building consensus, NOT any kind of binding vote - because we don't really have a process or tradition of voting on core issues, nor do I want to start that tradition. The goal here is to get as close to consensus as possible or get the PMC involved.
Thoughts?
(I encourage us to use this issue to discuss the process of deciding, while keeping the technical discussion in the core issue queue. I'll be happy if a consensus does develop in the core issue queue, before we need this process.)