Interest in working on the M710q/M910Q series as well?

[Overwatching]

The M_10q series are DIRT CHEAP right now and make great HomeLab machines. It would be great if we could expand your mod to get a second M.2 slot on these, and other Lenovo models as well.

I purchased a lot of 5x M710qs for $160 and I'm willing to sacrifice one for The Greater Good™. Plus, if it works, it could be super useful. I can disassemble one and get a bunch of photos, but I have never done a hardware mod this complicated before. I'm really only good as a pair of remote-hands. I've been looking for an excuse to get a hot-air rework station and learn though.

Other possible things.

1. Break out the extra SATA traces on the board. Also need to find somewhere to harvest SATA power.
2. Find somewhere to steal 12v from so we can use one of those cheap ADT-Link M.2 to PCIe x4 slot adapters and cram a 10/25/40Gbit ConnectX card into it. The datasheets say they only need 5-10W depending on the card, which is probably doable with the stock 90W power bricks. My units only seem to pull ~48W when I run a torture test. (I'm pretty sure we don't need 5v? The ConnectX datasheets only say 3.3v and 12v, and some of the M.2 adapters only have 12v. I'm not sure the 5v traces on the floppy power connectors that many of these seem to use actually go anywhere.)
3. Break the A+E key into 2x PCIe x1 slots. I'm pretty sure I see both the x1 lanes run to the A+E socket...

[badger707]

Hey @Overwatching - yes I could try & look at this. Can you share schematics and BoardView files in .brd or .pdf format to start with? Also, top/bottom view pictures of actual board in hi-res would be great.

[Overwatching]

I'm not sure where to get the schematics and boardview files. Reading through the STH forums, it looks like you got the M_20q files from a seller on Taobao? I can't even see the linked page without making an account. Hrmm...

[badger707]

I could not find any free schematics for M910q, only paid ones like here unfortunately... If you're up for initial investment in schematics and then share - that would help, however, schematics is one part and BoardView is also must have,unfortunately that site does not have it.
Re: M920q schematics what I've got -- not on Taobao, it was right place & right time & right Reddit user, lucky.

[SirNoish]

ThinkCentre_M710q_LiteON_JC133_IQ270IH1_REVX03_www_DeviceDBxyz.pdf

Hope this can help you

[hpxing]

maybe the m930q or m80 can add the dual nvme? or anyone can share schematics and BoardView files thanks

[badger707]

@SirNoish -- super, thanks for M710q schematic. Do you have BoardView file for sharing by any chance?

[SirNoish]

I'm sorry, I don't think the boardview exists, I bought this scheme from that Russian page and I haven't found anything else.

[systemerror-codenotfound]

@SirNoish -- super, thanks for M710q schematic. Do you have BoardView file for sharing by any chance?

I guess that if we can provide with pictures of the motherboard that can be useful?

[badger707]

@SirNoish -- super, thanks for M710q schematic. Do you have BoardView file for sharing by any chance?

I guess that if we can provide with pictures of the motherboard that can be useful?

No, not really. Without BoardView file, these pictures would not be helpful. Goal here is to know components location, so you'd need to have either (a) BoardView or (b) an actual motherboard on hands to trace all components and their location with oscilloscope and multimeter...

[systemerror-codenotfound]

@SirNoish -- super, thanks for M710q schematic. Do you have BoardView file for sharing by any chance?

I guess that if we can provide with pictures of the motherboard that can be useful?

No, not really. Without BoardView file, these pictures would not be helpful. Goal here is to know components location, so you'd need to have either (a) BoardView or (b) an actual motherboard on hands to trace all components and their location with oscilloscope and multimeter...

pfff, i only have M910Q on hand :( That's almost equal to the M710Q but the chipset it's different

[Overwatching]

an actual motherboard on hands to trace all components and their location with oscilloscope and multimeter...

I was wondering if that would be an option. I was planning on disassembling one of the units anyway to get good photos. I could do a bunch of continuity tests on pads/pins if I had a bit of direction.

No scope on hand right now. I really should get one if I'm going to be starting down this road though.

[KineticMaintenance]

an actual motherboard on hands to trace all components and their location with oscilloscope and multimeter...

I was wondering if that would be an option. I was planning on disassembling one of the units anyway to get good photos. I could do a bunch of continuity tests on pads/pins if I had a bit of direction.

No scope on hand right now. I really should get one if I'm going to be starting down this road though.

I expect you’d need the m_X_10x version, if you wanted to determine the components required to get dual m.2 and/or PCIE.

IIRC, there is little difference between the m710q and m910q other than chipset and vPro.

[londbell]

M710Q

[londbell]

I soldered a second M.2 slot on the M710Q motherboard, but only the sata part was made up, so it only supports M.2 SATA

[londbell]

[Overwatching]

I soldered a second M.2 slot on the M710Q motherboard, but only the sata part was made up, so it only supports M.2 SATA

I'm surprised the SATA traces are connected. I was expecting them to require passives. This might still be a viable mod to add a mSATA drive to the other slot, or even just add a SATA pigtail to those pads and get a second SATA drive in there. We would need to find some external power for it with the pigtail though.

The PCIe pairs definitely don't have the passives though, so it is not surprising that there is no connection to the M.2. That is the reason why we need to get a board view to see what passives go where on the M910x.

[Overwatching]

I purchased 2x M910x boards in "for parts" condition for $15 shipped. They don't seem to be physically damaged, no passives scraped off the board or anything.

They are on a slow-boat, but I'll get some pictures up and I can start tracing the...traces when they get here.

[systemerror-codenotfound]

I soldered a second M.2 slot on the M710Q motherboard, but only the sata part was made up, so it only supports M.2 SATA

I'm surprised the SATA traces are connected. I was expecting them to require passives. This might still be a viable mod to add a mSATA drive to the other slot, or even just add a SATA pigtail to those pads and get a second SATA drive in there. We would need to find some external power for it with the pigtail though.

The PCIe pairs definitely don't have the passives though, so it is not surprising that there is no connection to the M.2. That is the reason why we need to get a board view to see what passives go where on the M910x.

He actually had to solder some components to the board

You can find the components here, just use google translate

https://eoz.lv/showthread.php?55990-mod-upgrade-Lenovo-Thinkcentre-M910Q-M710Q-M-2-otra-ligzda&highlight=m910q

i will pick up tomorrow all the parts and attempt the same operation on a M910Q, so maybe i can get another M.2 NVME slot

from where did you got the boards? We are having problems to locate the PCI-e slot as it's using a propieraty lenovo size

[Overwatching]

from where did you got the boards? We are having problems to locate the PCI-e slot as it's using a propieraty lenovo size

Sketchy Ebay seller.

I wonder how hard it would be to design a daughter board that soldered into the through-holes and provided a regular PCIe slot. The proprietary one doesn't do anything without the proprietary Lenovo board that slots into it anyway.

[londbell]

I soldered a second M.2 slot on the M710Q motherboard, but only the sata part was made up, so it only supports M.2 SATA

I'm surprised the SATA traces are connected. I was expecting them to require passives. This might still be a viable mod to add a mSATA drive to the other slot, or even just add a SATA pigtail to those pads and get a second SATA drive in there. We would need to find some external power for it with the pigtail though.

The PCIe pairs definitely don't have the passives though, so it is not surprising that there is no connection to the M.2. That is the reason why we need to get a board view to see what passives go where on the M910x.

Sorry I forgot to explain, I also soldered the capacitors and resistors.

[hpxing]

well done. thanks the m910q works after this .dual nvme.

[londbell]

well done. thanks the m910q works after this .dual nvme.

like this？

[raenye]

1. There's an aliexpress listing of an m710q to m910x retrofit kit. It consists of a few caps, an m.2 connector, the 120p PCIe-like proprietary connector, and several unknown ICs (QFN-16 and some more): There's also a screenshot of PCIe x4 related schematics, not sure how it is related to either the PCIe 8x or the m.2. No instructions.

2. Inspecting m910x, m910q and m710q images. it seems there are a few changes around this area: However, these seem not to match the ICs in the alixepress listing. EDIT: according to the schematics this is a buck convertor for +12V. Not sure if for PCIe or for 65W SKUs.

3. There's also a custom USB3 internal header, instead of the USB2 internal header present on m710q boards: (Actually having USB2 is a good thing if you're using 2.4GHz nano dongles for wireless mice/keyboards; USB3 has all sorts of interference issues with these.)

4. @londbell It seems one also needs to tell the PCH to behave in an m910x mode (these are from page 14 in the schematics): I couldn't identify the location of the registers in the photos, but for m720q they are left of the metal caps below the PCH.

[sms-ebarbeito]

I soldered a second M.2 slot on the M710Q motherboard, but only the sata part was made up, so it only supports M.2 SATA

I'm surprised the SATA traces are connected. I was expecting them to require passives. This might still be a viable mod to add a mSATA drive to the other slot, or even just add a SATA pigtail to those pads and get a second SATA drive in there. We would need to find some external power for it with the pigtail though. The PCIe pairs definitely don't have the passives though, so it is not surprising that there is no connection to the M.2. That is the reason why we need to get a board view to see what passives go where on the M910x.

Sorry I forgot to explain, I also soldered the capacitors and resistors.

I don't think 10k resistor is place correctly. If I zoom a photo of my board, this two pads are connected with a trace. Maybe this pads are to put components vertically, but I don't have the board view to check.

[its-me-ct]

@SirNoish Thank you for the schematics, they were instrumental for my efforts and it would have taken much longer without them.

@sms-ebarbeito That's because the "instructions" are incorrect. I've partially reverse-engineered the M.2 part of the circuitry and it seems like a few more parts are required. Still waiting for the M.2 connectors to arrive by mail to confirm my findings, then I'll publish my findings.

@Overwatching Can you provide high-res images of the area around the PCH on the m710q? I suspect some config resistors differ between that version and my m910q, an image would be enough information to reverse engineer a solution for you as well.

Edit: The m710q's H250 chipset only supports up to 1 nvme, so the second slot will likely be sata only. Also the A+E key'ed slot only has a single PCIe lane, what you are seeing are the TX, RX and CLK pairs.

[raenye]

@its-me-ct do you think the PCIe x8 socket can be put to use?

[its-me-ct]

@raenye I don't think it's economically feasible. I couldn't find the connector, it's semi-custom variant of a "normal" PCI connector, but with a different key location. And even if you find one, you still would to populate the 12V supply circuitry. You can't even have a custom breakout to 2x m.2 m-key, because they need additional signals that are not present on the 8x connector.

[kyxap]

also why not to use wifi slot for the M.2? it seems like it will work (a lot of extension available)

let me know if I'm wrong, because I was thinking to go that root

[badger707]

@kyxap adapters in wifi slot works very nicely on m920q, but I can not confirm for m710q.

[its-me-ct]

@kyxap The wifi slot is M.2 E key, meaning it only has 1x PCIe lane instead of 4x lanes in a M key slot. PCIe 3.0 4x supports up to 4GB/s, the wifi slot only 1GB/s. If that's enough for you, you could use an adapter.

[evil2k2]

@raenye I don't think it's economically feasible. I couldn't find the connector, it's semi-custom variant of a "normal" PCI connector, but with a different key location. And even if you find one, you still would to populate the 12V supply circuitry. You can't even have a custom breakout to 2x m.2 m-key, because they need additional signals that are not present on the 8x connector.

In the other issue someone posted this link to a retrofit kit with the pci express slot and some other parts. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005442152013.html

[systemerror-codenotfound]

also why not to use wifi slot for the M.2? it seems like it will work (a lot of extension available)

let me know if I'm wrong, because I was thinking to go that root

i can confirm you that you can use the m.2 wifi slot to connect more drives i have 6 hdd's connected over there with an adapters, m.2 to pci and a pci controller

in fact, you can see the voltage points to power the HDD's directly from the board https://www.printables.com/es/model/571792-3d-printed-nas-case-for-tiny-m710q-m910q-m720q-m92

@raenye I don't think it's economically feasible. I couldn't find the connector, it's semi-custom variant of a "normal" PCI connector, but with a different key location. And even if you find one, you still would to populate the 12V supply circuitry. You can't even have a custom breakout to 2x m.2 m-key, because they need additional signals that are not present on the 8x connector.

In the other issue someone posted this link to a retrofit kit with the pci express slot and some other parts. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005442152013.html

That aliexpress listing was our, i mean, there are people on taobao selling those kits and adapters, and we tried to use an aliexpress seller as "bridge" but he actually placed it too expensive

[SirNoish]

@raenye I don't think it's economically feasible. I couldn't find the connector, it's semi-custom variant of a "normal" PCI connector, but with a different key location. And even if you find one, you still would to populate the 12V supply circuitry. You can't even have a custom breakout to 2x m.2 m-key, because they need additional signals that are not present on the 8x connector.

In the other issue someone posted this link to a retrofit kit with the pci express slot and some other parts. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005005442152013.html

Be careful with that sale of components, that link was created by the seller after I gave him a Taobao link, to try to get all the components through AliExpress. The seller did not give me confidence in his answers, especially that he could get the special "pcie" connector.

[systemerror-codenotfound]

M710Q images

https://imgur.com/a/EJKkOpu @Overwatching @badger707

This weekend i will receive a M910X and i also have a M910Q so any specific part to focus on ?

[sms-ebarbeito]

s because the "instructions" are incorrect. I've partially reverse-engineered the M.2 part of the circuitry and it seems like a few more parts are required. Still waiting for the M.2 connectors to arrive by mail to confirm my findings, then I'll publish my findings.

I think to get working nvme on second slot, need to populate more components, there are a transistor Q426 use to check if the device plugged in is sata device or nvme

[Overwatching]

The m710q's H250 chipset only supports up to 1 nvme, so the second slot will likely be sata only.

It should be the B250 not H250 chipset. This chipset supports PCIe 3.0 links, up to 12x lanes in x1, x2, and x4 configurations. Intel Ark - B250 Chipset

The CPU also directly supports PCIe 3.0 links. Max 16 lanes in 1x16, 2x8, 1x8+2x4 configuration. This should be where the NVMe drives connect to anyway. Or the primary one at least. Intel Ark - i3-7100t

The difference between the m710q and the m910q/x is the latter uses the Q270 chipset, which has (4) more lanes available, and a bifurcation setting for an x8 link.

If you look at the schematic...

• The x8 slot on these boards is directly connected to the cpu.
• The chipset is then connected to 2x M.2 slots with x4 links.
• The M.2 A/E slot gets an x1 link.
• The i219 (1Gbit LAN) gets another x1 link.

That's only 10x lanes, which less than the 12x the B250 can provide. These boards are clearly shared between the different versions of machine, so if the higher end version has diffpairs routed to the second M.2 slot, the lower end ones should too. It should just be a matter of adding the passives to wire them up.

in fact, you can see the voltage points to power the HDD's directly from the board

You have made my week. I've been wondering where I'm going to steal 12v and 5v from when I get the M.2 to PCIe adapters in!

NOTES:

• I've been sick for a bit. I'll get some nice high-res shots with good contrast sometime this week.
• The sketchy Ebay sale for m910x boards fell-through so I can't get good shots. Unfortunately.
• I'm also expecting some M.2 B+M to x4 PCIe slot adapters and M.2 A+E to M adapters in next week. There will be more fun soon.

NOTES_2:

• I think I might have room to snake the adapter cable around the motherboard from the M.2 side, to the inside of the case. I just confirmed that a spare CX314a (Dual 40Gbit Mellanox NIC) fits in there if I remove the SATA tray. I might get REALLY wild and pull 2 SATA SSDs out of their case and shoehorn them in there covered in kapton tape.
• The M.2 A+E to M adapter looks like it might neatly wrap around the board too. If so, I could be lazy and double-stick tape the M key slot to where the second M.2 slot on the bottom is. If clearance allows a drive to fit in there...

[Overwatching]

Question?

Do we have a pin-to-pin map of the proprietary expansion slot to PCIe x8 slot?

If no one is able to make a convenient drop-in board that adapts the through-holes to a standard slot, it should still be possible to hand-wire the pins from a chopped up PCIe extension cable. It would certainly be more prone to user-error. But it SHOULD work once the passives are installed.

As mentioned earlier, that x8 link should be coming right off the CPU, so it doesn't matter what chipset is on the board.

[its-me-ct]

This should be where the NVMe drives connect to anyway.

Nope, this is where the 8x slot connects. All peripherals (USB3, PCIe, LAN and SATA) are connected to the PCH, so the total bandwidth is limited to the DMI 3.0 4x link, equivalent to PCIe 3.0 4x (32Gbit/s = 4GB/s).

Interestingly enough they chose PCIE lane 17-20, which are not available on the B250, so the missing black slot can only support SATA on the m710q.

Regarding the second M.2 m-key on the m910q: I got it working 🎉

Instructions will be uploaded sometime this week, including high res photos.

@Overwatching get well soon 🫂

[Overwatching]

Odd problem with multiple PCIe devices attached.

Using a M.2 A+E to M.2 B+M adapter in the wifi slot get's the drive to show up in lspci. But with anything in the primary M.2 slot the system only sees whatever is in the primary.

Tried it with an NVMe drive and a CX3 card with an adapter. Strange.

[maxl95]

Hi guys, I'm also a recent owner of a M910Q and very interested in getting the second NVMe slot working. First of all, thank you very much for your commitment.

My current state is that I already have the second slot soldered on and also the passives, as described in the pictures above. My Samsung 980 is already recognized as such in the BIOS. Unfortunately, bus errors occur in the kernel log immediately after detection and the SSD is disabled.

I am curious whether we get the second slot to run. Attached are a few pictures of my current state:

[maxl95]

@its-me-ct any news regarding the instructions and high-resolution images?

@Overwatching I now also have an M.2 A+E to M.2 B+M adapter running. Both drives are displayed via "lspci" and also "nvme list" shows both devices. I have created a test raid with both drives, which also works. Performance benchmarks showed ~800MB/s for the wifi port SSD. Unfortunately, I have a few PCI errors in between, but they are correctable according to the kernel log.

[Overwatching]

@Overwatching I now also have an M.2 A+E to M.2 B+M adapter running. Both drives are displayed via "lspci" and also "nvme list" shows both devices. I have created a test raid with both drives, which also works. Performance benchmarks showed ~800MB/s for the wifi port SSD. Unfortunately, I have a few PCI errors in between, but they are correctable according to the kernel log.

I haven't been able to kick whatever I've been sick with, but I have done a little troubleshooting of the A+E adapter. It seems to work fine in a different machine, which leads me to believe that the m710 isn't providing it with enough power. My adapter has through-hole spots silk-screened for the 3.3v and ground pins, so I'm thinking I can scrounge more power from the main rails?

I haven't had time to disassemble one of my units for high-res pictures yet though. I'm spending every minute I can stand being out of bed working on the network upgrade so I can swap over to fiber internet (which just became available in my area this week.) It's like...$200 back in my pocket every month so it's my highest priority right now. (Technically I don't NEED to do the networking closet first, but we ALL know that "Temporary" fixes are the longest lasting ones.)

[raenye]

I haven't been able to kick whatever I've been sick with

Get well soon! Looking forward to your findings.

[panchex]

Hi, I have an m710q, and I'm very motivated to carry out the dual M.2 modification. In the schematic shared above, I see that they use 10 capacitors of 0.22uF and 2 of 0.01uF, but I don't understand where those 10 0.22uF capacitors go.I will try to create an image by tracing the available socket to confirm the necessary components in the m710q. It's quite interesting.Apart from this, which integrated PCIe 8x slot do they change in the m710q?

Thank you!!

[raenye]

I don't understand where those 10 0.22uF capacitors go

See here. But where do the 10nF ones go?

[panchex]

I don't understand where those 10 0.22uF capacitors go

See here. But where do the 10nF ones go?

Sorry, there was a misunderstanding because I use a translator. In the schematic on the M2 lines, you can count 6x 0.22uf capacitors and 2x 0.01uf capacitors, but those who performed the mod used 10x 0.22uf. The quantity and values, as I see in the schematic, don't match. Maybe they approximated for convenience when sourcing the components. Nevertheless, I have 2 capacitors left from the 10.That's why I have this doubt. When I get home, I'll disassemble and measure the ones that come from the factory.

[its-me-ct]

Okey guys, took me long enough, but I finally documented the required modifications to get the second slot working. Check the picture to learn which value goes where.

You need following parts:

• 8x 0402 capacitor 100nF-220nF
• 7x 0402 resistor 0R
• 1x 0402 resistor 1k-100k

Optional parts:

• 2x 0805 capacitor 10uF 6.3V
• 1x 0402 capacitor 47pF
• 1x 0402 resistor 33R

Communication over PCIe always needs one differential pair for the reference clock, and two differential pairs per lane (one RX, one TX). TX lines are connected directly to the socket, while RX lines need DC blocking capacitors. According to the spec anything from 100nF to 220nF is fine, so I choose 8x 100nF. The clock lines also need to be connected, but because it is an output 0R resistors should be used.

Next the auxiliary signals need to be connected with 0R resistors. Without these the PC can't initialize the PCIe protocol. The one 10k in the group is a pull up resistor and must NOT be zero ohm, but the actual value is not critical, anything from 1k to 100k should work fine. The reset input originally uses an RC low pass filter for greater noise immunity (33R + 47pF). I figured it's likely the designers default circuit and not strictly required, and because I didn't have 47pF on hand, I replaced the filter with a 0R jumper, which works fine for me.

The last thing you need to do is to swap one 10k configuration resistor from the upper to the lower footprint. Should you loose it don't worry, any value from 1k-100k is suitable as a replacement. This change tells the bios that entire board is a different version, which happens to have the M.2 slot installed :). After the swap the bios should show "board version C" instead of "board version B" and the additional slot should show up. I'm not sure if this has any unintentional side effects, but the system works fine so far.

There are two larger footprints for 0805 10uF capacitors across the voltage lines to smooth out ripple. In practice they are not required, because the M.2 SSDs are designed to have all required capacitance locally on the drive. If you want to put "weird" expansion cards in this slot, then maybe install the capacitors, otherwise don't bother.

I also found a suitable method to mount the M.2 drives without needing the original plastic retainer. Some brass hot melt inserts for M2 screws have a flange and the perfect size to be installed from the top side without shorting any surrounding components. Add a tiny drop of hot glue to hold them in place, then mount the SSDs from the bottom with a screw.

Reminder that the second slot on 710q devices is likely SATA only, but I don't have 710q to verify it myself.

pinging @maxl95 @raenye @panchex

[kaysond]

Anyone interested in going in on some of the pci-e update kits from taobao? I want vpro, and an M910q+kit is still about half the price of the M920q. And I want 4 of them so it's a big difference. The only thing that's not clear to me from the schematic is if you need to populate the +12V_PCIE switcher. ctrl+f didn't work great on the pdf so I couldn't find if the rail is connected elsewhere.

[raenye]

@kaysond I'm interested, but the current price makes little sense IMHO for m710q.

[kaysond]

@kaysond I'm interested, but the current price makes little sense IMHO for m710q.

Agreed. Only if you need vPro does it really matter