Reconsider mailing list host

[gdt]

The current list can't be administered without a google account, and I've received reports of vanishing (non-spammy and entirely appropriate) messages (EDIT: no recent vanishing issues 2023-03). Also, URLs are rewritten which is some blend of icky and invasive.

I'm unclear on possibilities and this seems like a lot of work, but it should be on the eventual list.

[bcpierce00]

Are any of the vanishing messages recent?

There was a bug in my email client that caused some submitted messages to display as blank. I thought these were spam, but realized a couple months ago that if I went to the actual list web site I could see them.

On Mon, Apr 25, 2022 at 7:43 AM Greg Troxel @.***> wrote:

The current list can't be administered without a google account, and I've received reports of vanishing (non-spammy and entirely appropriate) messages. I'm unclear on possibilities and this seems like a lot of work, but it should be on the eventual list.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison/issues/711__;!!IBzWLUs!WKtQy4N22TJcrxm5aSzOMKVEBIMOJYu9-hoDb_Q7ixde-EjsSR-X0dp5adjAIOOKYebARcsGTKFPk3ftEfW2Zgo_5K8r$, or unsubscribe https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABVQQC2OK45SXHMO2ZJLDKTVG2ANPANCNFSM5UIJMAXA__;!!IBzWLUs!WKtQy4N22TJcrxm5aSzOMKVEBIMOJYu9-hoDb_Q7ixde-EjsSR-X0dp5adjAIOOKYebARcsGTKFPk3ftEfW2ZvUiInfy$ . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

[gdt]

I got an offlist email about a submission gone missing. I'lll followup with you off-github about that.

I have also been seeing complaints about missing messages on other googlegroups lists.

[gdt]

Also, the current list mangles URLs.

[gdt]

Also, there was a report just now on unison-users@ which says that the mechanism to join without a google account does not work. If that's really true, that's a serious problem.

[bcpierce00]

Agreed.

One other issue that I'm not sure about is how easy it is to export the list of current subscribers from a Google group -- i.e., whether we'd be able to easily move everybody over to another platform. But if people want to move somewhere else and can agree on where and how, I'm happy to go along.

On Thu, Nov 24, 2022 at 11:15 AM Greg Troxel @.***> wrote:

Also, there was a report just now on unison-users@ which says that the mechanism to join without a google account does not work. If that's really true, that's a serious problem.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison/issues/711*issuecomment-1326646313__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!VSvLoONN1MsFyFbuNcHri_NEc0t497NcpMOnpIJbfC-Rhyux1R2x7hiJpsQHgmuKt8XNI80qRKyt1QAZGIc5jxM_PR7K$, or unsubscribe https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABVQQC2QTD5QAAVTAATXZA3WJ6IDLANCNFSM5UIJMAXA__;!!IBzWLUs!VSvLoONN1MsFyFbuNcHri_NEc0t497NcpMOnpIJbfC-Rhyux1R2x7hiJpsQHgmuKt8XNI80qRKyt1QAZGIc5j4p_GLGZ$ . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

[gdt]

One possible home is https://www.freelists.org/

[llucps]

I'm guessing that this a low priority task, just wondering whether freelists.org is an option a the end.

I just try the options listed here https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/13508/how-can-i-subscribe-to-a-google-mailing-list-with-a-non-google-e-mail-address

But sadly none of them worked for me.

[gdt]

As I see it, requirements for a new home are:

• no charges (absent finding a fiscal sponsor and having ability to pay)
• no requirement for list admins to agree to indemnification or other unreasonable terms
• no requirement for list members to have a google account or to agree to unreasonable terms
• no surveillance-based advertising
• ability to have a list with 1000 or so members (so a scheme that allows < 5000 is ok)
• non-members are blocked
• decent inbound spam filtering
• proper X-List headers with reasonable unsubscribe ability
• list configurable and configured to not break DKIM (no subject tag, no footer)
• list applies DKIM signature from the list
• well-run server not in RBLs
• public archives non-requirements:
• digest mode (perhaps "not having digests" is a requirement; that leads to horrific quoting)
• forum interface

This seems to rule out freelists.org, which loads google analytics.

[gdt]

I'm guessing that this a low priority task, just wondering whether freelists.org is an option a the end.

I just try the options listed here https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/13508/how-can-i-subscribe-to-a-google-mailing-list-with-a-non-google-e-mail-address

But sadly none of them worked for me.

As of not that long ago, the method at https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison/wiki/Mailing-Lists of sending to unison-users+subscribe@seas.upenn.edu worked. What happened when you tried that?

I just sent a request, and got

We have received a request to join the group unison-users@seas.upenn.edu.
You are already subscribed to this group.

[llucps]

I'm guessing that this a low priority task, just wondering whether freelists.org is an option a the end. I just try the options listed here https://webapps.stackexchange.com/questions/13508/how-can-i-subscribe-to-a-google-mailing-list-with-a-non-google-e-mail-address But sadly none of them worked for me.

As of not that long ago, the method at https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison/wiki/Mailing-Lists of sending to unison-users+subscribe@seas.upenn.edu worked. What happened when you tried that?

I just sent a request, and got

We have received a request to join the group unison-users@seas.upenn.edu.
You are already subscribed to this group.

Yes I also tried that and I got a Delivery Status notification (delivery) email back with the following message:

[gdt]

In general I only read text not images, but I was able to reproduce this. I've sent a query and we'll see.

[llucps]

In general I only read text not images, but I was able to reproduce this. I've sent a query and we'll see.

Oh sorry the error is:

Message not delivered

There was a problem delivering your message to unison-users@gmailrelay.seas.upenn.edu. See the technical details below.
The response was:

Unexpected DFS AddMemberships membership status 

[bcpierce00]

I can check with my sysadmins, but just to make sure I understand clearly: This was in response to a message sent to unison-users@seas.upenn.edu? Would you mind sharing the address from which it was sent? (You can send it to me privately if you prefer.)

[llucps]

I can check with my sysadmins, but just to make sure I understand clearly: This was in response to a message sent to unison-users@seas.upenn.edu? Would you mind sharing the address from which it was sent? (You can send it to me privately if you prefer.)

Yes that was an email sent from my personal email to subscribe to unison-users@seas.upenn.edu mailing list.

I'll send you my email to your email.

Thanks

[gdt]

We are not talking about messages sent to the ilst. We are talking about messages sent to unison-users+subscribe@seas.upenn.edu so that someone can join the list.

To be clear, the problem is not that any particular method doesn't work. It is that we lack a documented, working method for someone (who does not have a google account) to join the list (without telling them to get one!).

[llucps]

We are not talking about messages sent to the ilst. We are talking about messages sent to unisonusers+subscribe@seas.upenn.edu so that someone can join the list.

To be clear, the problem is not that any particular method doesn't work. It is that we lack a documented, working method for someone (who does not have a google account) to join the list (without telling them to get one!).

Yes you're right, I should've been more specific.

[bcpierce00]

Now I'm not sure I understand. I thought the problem was that we do have a documented method but that this particular method is not working... or?

[gdt]

This is the documented method. It didn't work for @llucps who got a bizarre bounce. I was able to replicate this by creating a new email address and sending a request from it, getting the same bizarre bounce (with change of value of sending address). That's what I sent to you via email.

You should be able to replicate this by sending a request from an email address that is not on the list. Or if you can't replicate it, that's interesting too. (It would not shock me if upenn addrs are treated differently.)

[bcpierce00]

Also, just double checking: the subscription address is @. @.>, not @.***

Is the former the one you used?

On Thu, May 2, 2024 at 7:12 AM Benjamin Pierce @.***> wrote:

Now I'm not sure I understand. I thought the problem was that we do have a documented method but that this particular method is not working... or?

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/bcpierce00/unison/issues/711*issuecomment-2090238572__;Iw!!IBzWLUs!VBSZ4KpCSgtzGCdKOQMe95oZmpnfOkbPYuvBIvtpVluYmYeUjZM-Yf3ANApmq1Vv6a8GkbUgjmpGK7YzYMVbffWIMXg9$, or unsubscribe https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABVQQC2VS6YVEGK2CWRQKWDZAINTLAVCNFSM5UIJMAXKU5DIOJSWCZC7NNSXTN2JONZXKZKDN5WW2ZLOOQ5TEMBZGAZDGOBVG4ZA__;!!IBzWLUs!VBSZ4KpCSgtzGCdKOQMe95oZmpnfOkbPYuvBIvtpVluYmYeUjZM-Yf3ANApmq1Vv6a8GkbUgjmpGK7YzYMVbfaLvIjhp$ . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: @.***>

[bcpierce00]

Oof -- that did not come through clearly. What I meant to write was that the correct address is unison-users+subscribe, not unisonusers+subscribe.

[gdt]

yes, I had the hyphen. I messed it up when copying to comment. You can see this clearly in the bounce I forwarded to you.