Project name and logo can hurt people's sensibilities

[hamoid]

Hi! Thank you for releasing this project. I'm often looking for a language that is powerful and fast to compile that helps with experimentation :)

This issue may sound like a joke but it's not. I find it uncomfortable to look at a logo representing a sliced dead animal. Growing large animals for human consumption is also a contributor to the climate problem. I guess so far I'm part of a small but growing minority, but I thought I should still raise awareness to this. I know changing a name is a hard issue to fix.

Maybe Beef could be an acronym of something less bloody and the logo match that acronym?

Or if the authors are strong believers in raising animals for human consumption an option would be to fork the project and replace every mention of Beef with another word to appeal to a wider audience? Leaf sounds similar and has the same number of characters, but leaf-lang exists already.

In any case thank you for considering this.

[CorneliusCornbread]

Since BEEF is also a valid hexadecimal number. A small meme.

Here's a simple idea based on the current name.

These two are my top picks, for the latter one you could simplify the logo to just be "0xBEEF" and make that the official logo. I think these two are both very creative and visually pleasing. Not a fan of the blue and green BF logo as it looks like and 'f' and a '3'

[sgf]

fried beef let It simplicity and black and white color will better

[fourst4r]

Dont end up like Go, its hardly googleable..

Used Go for 3 years and can say this is a non-issue, you simply type "golang" to your searches instead. "Beeflang" is perfectly fine and gives good search results.

As for changing the logo to a picture of a buff arm, well then you'll get a new issue about the toxic masculinity of it...

[Shadowblitz16]

what about something like C4, BLang, Strut, Zest, Clutch, Rune

I would just look up a programming language generator and check if there is something googleable already.

[AihjawvBawiuojfvnW0of92]

As for changing the logo to a picture of a buff arm, well then you'll get a new issue about the toxic masculinity of it...

TRUE, lol

[timmyjose]

Is there really a community of vegan programmers that get offended by the mention or sight of meat?

Is there really a community of vegan programmers that get offended by the sight of meat? I'm not sure. Is there a community of rampant elitists that go out of their way to shun replies with reactions to create the illusion of support behind an exclusive idea. Hacking has historically been an inclusive community to such an extent the only requirements were a shitty modem and a computer; the most divisive thing to exist was the GIMP abbreviation. Slapping a rendition of meat, a produce 8% of the worlds population has deemed immoral, is the last thing any sane project manager should consider. Why yes we should turn away 15%⋂8% of potential gamedevs, langdevs, and related (*15% hindu, 8% vegetarian, 1% vegans, some overlap worthy of note)

Oh, get over yourself.

[timmyjose]

the language will not rebrand and rename for the sake of conforming to a serious and professional tone. This project will enforce it's artistic right to attempt to be a great tool without conforming to the expected dry tone of the field.

@bfiete I'm probably grasping at straws here looking for technicalities in your wording, but let me dream: Are there other reasons that the project might change it's name? Or was that comment saying that you're not open to changing the name for any reason? I completely agree that a project should have its own "spirit" and not be all dry and professional! I am 1000% behind that 👍

So the joviality of the name is great, I think. The problem with the name is that it mixes this joviality with a term that currently implies very real large-scale, unnecessary suffering. Those two don't mix very well, I think. I grew up on a (dairy) farm, and my dad currently farms Angus cattle, so I'm not going off some peta campaign here. It's really unpleasant when you see what these animals have to go through to get to our plate. If you watch this video (it has no blood or gore at all) at least through to the 2 minute-ish mark, you'll get a taste of what comes to mind for many people when they think about the word beef. This documentary does contain footage of violence, but is worth watching if you want to get a full sense of the suffering caused by the meat industry, and related industries. This is of course not to mention the greenhouse gases, loss of biodiversity, ocean dead zones, and other problems caused by meat production. Altogether, it's not a pleasant thing to juxtapose with the cheery spirit of the project.

In any case, I really wish you well with this language whatever you choose! Maybe in the future "beef" will eventually come to refer primarily to the cell-culture version of the food, and then the current name would feel more comfortable :P

With all due respect, kindly sod off. If you really wish to do something useful instead of simply flapping your gums, go join some activism group and help people/causes out in real life. Leave the man alone - it's his language, his choice. Deal with it, or get out.

[timmyjose]

I personally like both the name, and especially the logo. As for newer languages being, named , here's a selection - Zig, Odin, Nim, Swift, Rust. None of these names is any better or worse than "Beef", and so also for the logo. This is a non-issue.

[timmyjose]

Or if the authors are strong believers in raising animals for human consumption

This is where I stopped taking your seriously - silly strawmen arguments. Well, guess what, I love meat, and I don't care about animals being slaughtered for it. It's only Nature. You can choose not to like it - that's your prerogative, but you have absolutely no right to impose your worldview on others. That's disrespectful, rude, and more than a bit naive. If you wish to help improve the way animals are raised, do something about it in real life instead of mere virtue-signalling. Ridiculous.

[rinzwind5]

It is a bad name, marketing wise. And obviously no one takes brainfuck serious as a language. Beef is a nice surprise, so I can ignore the bad and dumb naming. BC, BeeCee (Better C)? HappyCow (it has a website already ;)?

"big muscles arm" as logo is an easy improvement. Thanks for reading.

[sgf]

just do call bf-lang,less is more. bf is keep the reading same as old (Beef).

[timmyjose]

just do call bf-lang,less is more. bf is keep the reading same as old (Beef).

That's already being used by Brainfuck though (specifically, the extension, .bf).

[ghost]

Oh, get over yourself.

Says you responding to what feels like a 2 year old comment to seethe.

Come on, are you serious? People are going too crazy with tolerance nowadays. It's the name of a programming language ftfs, it doesn't even change for the most of them, especially not for odd and weak reasons, and it can be almost anything (remember brainfuck). With all due respect, kindly sod off. [...] go join some activism group and help people/causes out in real life. Leave the man alone - it's his language, his choice. Deal with it, or get out

Yea, (*15% hindu, 8% vegetarian, 1% vegans, some overlap worthy of note) as I already pointed out, I will "sod off." That's exactly why me and my friends are hacking on V8 instead of taking shitlangs with memenames seriously - especially when their authors are hell bent on using controversial (idc what your opinion is, defer to the stats) iconography. https://cyberia.tokyo/notice/ADBIdQWoMm3jLY1V9U; https://gitea.reece.sx/AuroraMiddleware/v8; https://gitea.reece.sx/AuroraSupport/AuroraV8PP; + other internal shit. Case in point, I know we wont ever contribute to this even though we could; and the fact that this is even being discussed proves the point.

You're a moron if you think this is about the meme of 'tolerance and inclusion' and not the talent you're quite literally telling to sod off

[timmyjose]

Oh, get over yourself.

Says you responding to what feels like a 2 year old comment to seethe.

Come on, are you serious? People are going too crazy with tolerance nowadays. It's the name of a programming language ftfs, it doesn't even change for the most of them, especially not for odd and weak reasons, and it can be almost anything (remember brainfuck). With all due respect, kindly sod off. [...] go join some activism group and help people/causes out in real life. Leave the man alone - it's his language, his choice. Deal with it, or get out

Yea, (*15% hindu, 8% vegetarian, 1% vegans, some overlap worthy of note) as I already pointed out, I will "sod off." That's exactly why me and my friends are hacking on V8 instead of taking shitlangs with memenames seriously - especially when their authors are hell bent on using controversial (idc what your opinion is, defer to the stats) iconography. https://cyberia.tokyo/notice/ADBIdQWoMm3jLY1V9U; https://gitea.reece.sx/AuroraMiddleware/v8; https://gitea.reece.sx/AuroraSupport/AuroraV8PP; + other internal shit. Case in point, I know we wont ever contribute to this even though we could; and the fact that this is even being discussed proves the point.

You're a moron if you think this is about the meme of 'tolerance and inclusion' and not the talent you're quite literally telling to sod off

Quod erat demonstrandum. Calm down before you get an aneurysm. If you cannot take it, don't try and give out unsolicited advice, especially to the creator of a project. I'm sure the creator of Beef is not the least bothered without the inclusion of your "hacking" talents. If it were about the talent, you wouldn't have harped on the non-technical aspects of it. If you did, then you're being disingenuous. Again, get over your unseemly self, and piss off.

Edit: Also imagine the amount of misplaced self importance, talking about "we". Lmfao.

[ghost]

I'm sure the creator of Beef is not the least bothered without the inclusion of your "hacking" talents. If it were about the talent, you wouldn't have harped on the non-technical aspects of it. I

It's funny you put "hacking" in quotes. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsL-E9RHk2HYurKM59_-jEQ/videos versus your sea of java trash and notes citing intent to skid LLVM frontends. My comment was clearly pointing out fact there are more worthy projects that people would choose over beef. I don't see how maintaining a MSVC fork of V8 with strip downed dependencies and a more minimalistic build chain doesn't constitute as "hacking" worthy of note, at least in terms of contributing to an ecosystem of a language. Especially if i go through with my poc of linking JIT'd code as ELF and PE binaries. V8 has never had that functionality, JIT-less mode is too much of a performance hit for real time applications, and the only project that attempted it before is years old. Except for high school level Java that doesn't even follow Oracles conventions, what do you offer and why should we care? If you believe I have no position to speak, you certainly don't. As someone who has hacked on languages before, as someone who is constantly looking for scripting engines, as someone who does care about the low level details as fucking reverse engineer who rewrote the entire asset pipeline for a AAA title speaking to someone who at best can point to a boring high level compiler and language notes as empty as tho, yea, this is up my ally.

Edit: Also imagine the amount of misplaced self importance, talking about "we". Lmfao.

Referring to my group of friends I can speak for, yes retard

[timmyjose]

@ReeceSX

Scratch an SJW, find a blathering idiot of a hypocrite.

It's funny you put "hacking" in quotes. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsL-E9RHk2HYurKM59_-jEQ/videos versus your sea of java trash and notes citing intent to skid LLVM frontends.

You do realise that I have an actual job that I do for a living, and what I put on my github is not only my own business, but for my own fun. Heh. Kindly direct your misplaced ad hominem elsewhere - it's very boring.

My comment was clearly pointing out fact there are more worthy projects that people would choose over beef.

Why are you here then? The creator is doing what he clearly likes doing, so I fail to see how that is any of your business especially with regards to the way the project is being run, and which direction it ought to go in.

I don't see how maintaining a MSVC fork of V8 with strip downed dependencies and a more minimalistic build chain doesn't constitute as "hacking" worthy of note, at least in terms of contributing to an ecosystem of a language. Especially if i go through with my poc of linking JIT'd code as ELF and PE binaries. V8 has never had that functionality, JIT-less mode is too much of a performance hit for real time applications, and the only project that attempted it before is years old.

I'm beginning to detect a deep sense of insecurity and false bravado in there. Are you sure you're all right (unironically). Maybe if you stopped trying so hard, people might actually listen to you in earnest, but the bigger problem is your abject lack of social and communication skills. Perhaps you should work on those first - that would help you much more than contributing to an Open Source projects.

Except for high school level Java that doesn't even follow Oracles conventions, what do you offer and why should we care? If you believe I have no position to speak, you certainly don't.

Yes, as I mentioned before, I actually do work for a living, you know. That's where I put in my bit. Moreover, you clearly have no idea what you're talking about. No offence, but I don't think you've ever worked in a real corporate company, have you? Of course not. No wonder your view of the world is not only so constrained, but also replete with oozing insecurity, as if you have to prove something not only to others, but also to yourself. That's not a healthy way of living, son.

As someone who has hacked on languages before, as someone who is constantly looking for scripting engines, as someone who does care about the low level details as fucking reverse engineer who rewrote the entire asset pipeline for a AAA title speaking to someone who at best can point to a boring high level compiler and language notes as empty as tho, yea, this is up my ally.

Please take this to /r/IAmVerySmart, and stop boring me (and others I'm sure). Again, maybe stop trying so hard to say something which is (strangely enough) not even apropos to this whole thread. Ad Hominem, Strawman, Arguing from Consequence, Appeal to Authority, Appeal to Fear... you're coming across as a walking bag of logical fallacies. My advice is to stop making an exhibition of yourself in public.

Referring to my group of friends I can speak for, yes retard

Ouch. That definitely ages you right there (along with the whole bizarre comment), or at least your mental age.

My advice to you can be summed up thusly:

1. The project belongs to the creator, and he himself can decide what direction to take the project in. Stop embarrassing yourself by trying to hijack the project.

2. Work on your self-esteem issues.

3. Work on your communication skills ("soft skills"). That's the part that will help you most.

4. Stop taking yourself so seriously, and go back to step 2.

I actually can't even get angry at your bizarre rant because I actually feel a smidgen of pity for you. Just a wee bit.

Cheers.

[bfiete]

New logo adopted. Issue closed.