Modeling of Entrance Location

[yarondassonneville]

During the previous webinar we had a discussion about the entranceLocation of a Building (unit).

It was discussed that entranceLocation should be modeled at the level of a building unit and not a building. Furthermore, the entrance of a building would correspond to the entrance of the first building unit, which could be the common space.

In the current version of the model entranceLocation is a data type which has a specific address (e.g. in case of an apartment, the address of that specific apartment) and geoCoordinates to locate the specific location.

An alternative is the possibility to make use of the addressRepresentation of OSLO together with the locator designator to capture these entrance points. This is something the project team is further looking into.

Could you please let us know which approach should be prioritized?

[JanLaporte]

Coordinates and address don't look so usefull for the entrance location of a building unit. Address already is linked to the building unit (since building unit is the addressable object, not the entrance) Geocoördinates seem quite hard to use inside a building.

What people need is a way to locate the entrance to a building unit when inside the building. What floor? Which door on that floor?

[hlorent]

Let's go back to the user's needs (i.e. the needs of police forces and emergency services, who have to find their way to a place of intervention). The actual location of the entrance of a building (unit) is what they need in order to intervene in the shortest delays. The entrance of a building made of several building units is as useful to them as the entrance of the building units.

[yarondassonneville]

Coordinates and address don't look so usefull for the entrance location of a building unit. Address already is linked to the building unit (since building unit is the addressable object, not the entrance) Geocoördinates seem quite hard to use inside a building.

What people need is a way to locate the entrance to a building unit when inside the building. What floor? Which door on that floor?

Thank you for your comment Jan. How would you locate an entrance?

[hlorent]

I think that geolocation is the most simple and efficient way (e.g. for emergency services) to find a door instead of describing it with attributes (floor, colour, width, sixth door on the left after the lift...) that wouldn't especially work for all cases. If geolocation inside buildings didn't work a few years ago (when relying only on GPS), it is no longer the case now, with geolocation being derived from multiple ground sources (e.g. wifi and GSM antennas).

[JanLaporte]

Entrance to building units already today is being described with attributes, albeit by abusing box number for that. In most municipalities, a box number contains intelligence. It describes the floor and door. A box number like 302 means 3rd floor, 2nd door (clockwise, starting form straicase). This is a popular way to pinpoint building unit entrances, but not ideal because the BestAdd guidlines for attributing addresses advice on meaningless box numbers instead of intelligent ones. To accomodate this, extra attributes at building unit level "floor" and "door" would take away the need to put intelligence in the box number. The National Registry also proposed attributes "building entrance" and "strairs" to further accomodate this. Although I don't know how they practically see this.

How geolocation could work inside a building, I have no idea. No geolocation system available can possibly have the accuracy of pinpointing to a single door in an appartment buiding. Not in XY and definitely not in Z. Plus inputting those coördinates by the municipalities based on the building permits seems impossible to me.

[hlorent]

I understand the practical point of view.

Yet, let's go back to the main users: policemen and emergency services.

The location of the entrance of a building unit is of utmost importance in the realization of their missions, it is a need that is regularly expressed. If box number is informative, having to read and interpret it in stressful situations might be complicated. Additionally, it does not give a clue about where (x,y) the entrance is.

Concerning the geolocation of the BU entrance by the municipalities, those have access to architect plans of many buildings, and regularly send policemen or employees to verify names on doorbells, which should be more than sufficient to get the field information (x, y and even z).

[JanLaporte]

The technical limitations cut both ways. What police or emergency services use 3D software in the field to pinpoint locations? If they do, what fireman enters a burning building with a device to guide him/her to exact 3D coördinates? How will this software help navigate inside the building? A 3D point is just a point floating in the air.

So, municipalities don't have the software and information to pinpoint the coördinates (architect plans are not in Lambert or WGS84). Services don't have the tools to use 3D coördinates in the field.

-> Descriptive attributes are the only plausible solution.

[hlorent]

It was never question of 3D and certainly not BIM, where did you read this?

A combination of PO (for the floor) box and (x,y) would provide the full information to the emergency services.

By the way, most municipalities are using GIS.

[JanLaporte]

Perhaps there is a misunderstanding. A point location of the entrance of a building unit requires the Z-coördinate, Hence I see it as 3D. Municipalities use gis, but mostly without a Z-coördinate. And they work in Lambert, which is not available in building permit plans. So architect plans need to be georeferenced into GIS before being able to determine Lambert XY for building unit entrance. Which isn't impossible, but it would be a huge challenge to include this into the municipalities workload.

Middle road could be to include descriptive attributes as well as a coördinate.

[yarondassonneville]

Thank you for the comments.

We understand that both geoCoordinates as well as additional functional attributes such as floor and door are needed to cater for the business needs. GeoCoordinates are needed to pinpoint entrances in cases where it isn’t possible to rely on box numbers and floor/door numbers. Next to that, in other cases it is more easy to use box numbers and floor/door numbers instead of the geoCoordinates.

We would suggest providing both geoCoordinates as well as additional attributes such as floor.

For your information, this only applies on buildingUnits as entranceLocations are only defined there as discussed in previous webinars.

[cvalvekens]

A box number consists of 4 digits (eg 0302) where 03 is the floor and 02 the door (clockwise with the first door on your left hand = 01). These are general agreements with fire departments, police, bpost, ... This is important information.

[hlorent]

Hello, Box numbers are very helpful to tell on what floor the BU entrance is, door nr, etc. Yet, they only help when you already are in the building. It is not enough to represent it on a map.

When emergency services get to a building during an intervention, box number does not tell where the door is, which is be essential in the case of large or complex buildings. There is an essential point that cannot be neglected: emergency services have to park their vehicles as close as possible to the BU. PO box information is therefore useless.

(X,Y) cannot be considered as secondary. The only thing that would be easier if theyr are not collected is data collection. This demand for the (X,Y) data of BU entrance is regularly expressed by both police and fire services.

Additionally, I would not say it is not easier to use PO box: geographic coordinates are immediately interpretable, which is priceless in the case of stressful emergency intervention. PO box information needs much more interpretation (when you know how to read it, which is not always the case).

[cvalvekens]

I don't totally agree. Box numbers have a very logical structure. As said before, normally emergency services know that if there is an emergency in box numer 0302 that they have to go to the third floor, second door starting from the left hand side. Geo coordinates are also helpfull but not all emergency services have the equipment to use these coordinates. Secondary do we use box numbers also for other purposes like taxes, housing quality,...

[JanLaporte]

So 2 entrances need to be located.

• The entrance to the building unit inside the building
• The entrance to the building

As for the entrance to the BU inside the building

• Indeed, box numbers are often used. But, those intelligent box numbers are not the way to go according to BestAdd rules for attribution and constation of addresses (https://www.belgif.be/page/activity/bestwg.nl.html)
• The use of descriptive attributes would be better
• Or the rules for attribution could be changed so box working with meaningfull bo numbers is adviced.

As for the entrance to the building

• Could be mapped in the geometry of the building unit (In Flanders it's an option to indicate the building entrance, but another locatino can be chosen as well
• Could be derived from the address. After all, BestAdd rules for attribution state that each entrance to a building needs to have its own house number. Hence, the location of this house number could be an indication for the building entrance. House number point geograpgy could also indicate the entrance to the buildng.

[hlorent]

The entrance of BU should also be geolocated. Indeed, in the case of multiple entrances of a building giving access to the same BUs, box number or descriptive attributes cannot inform about which entrance is the closest to the entrance of the BU.

[hlorent]

Here are some testimonies of police and fire services testifying for the need to georeference the entrance of the buildings and building units: west limburg.pdf brabant wallon.pdf dri.pdf hesbaye.pdf west limburg.pdf taxandria.pdf

[cturlica1]

I think that geolocation is the most simple and efficient way (e.g. for emergency services) to find a door instead of describing it with attributes (floor, colour, width, sixth door on the left after the lift...) that wouldn't especially work for all cases. If geolocation inside buildings didn't work a few years ago (when relying only on GPS), it is no longer the case now, with geolocation being derived from multiple ground sources (e.g. wifi and GSM antennas).

I agree, geolocation of an entrance is not only necessary for the emergency services but also in the use case of indoor routing/mapping. SLAM technology can also be a good added value to gain precision.

[cturlica1]

So 2 entrances need to be located.

* The entrance to the building unit inside the building

* The entrance to the building

As for the entrance to the BU inside the building

* Indeed, box numbers are often used. But, those intelligent box numbers are not the way to go according to BestAdd rules for attribution and constation of addresses (https://www.belgif.be/page/activity/bestwg.nl.html)

* The use of descriptive attributes would be better

* Or the rules for attribution could be changed so box working with meaningfull bo numbers is adviced.

As for the entrance to the building

* Could be mapped in the geometry of the building unit (In Flanders it's an option to indicate the building entrance, but another locatino can be chosen as well

* Could be derived from the address. After all, BestAdd rules for attribution state that each entrance to a building needs to have its own house number. Hence, the location of this house number could be an indication for the building entrance. House number point geograpgy could also indicate the entrance to the buildng.

In my opinion there are 3 types of entrances :

1. The entrance to the Building
2. The entrance to the Building Part
3. The entrance to the Building Unit inside the building or even 4. The entrance to the building annex (e.g. a storage facility, garage, etc.).

in the case of several large venues (take the case of the Heysel Palace in Brussels) the location of the entrance is of paramount importance. Another specific case could be large housing areas, with several Building Parts.

[bahimc]

As communicated via email: entranceLocation was added to Building as an unbounded attribute. The updated definition describes the location where the building (unit) can be entered or exited. Multiplicity of entranceLocation has been changed to [1...] for Building Unit and [0..] for building.