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benbarden / switchscores

The code behind switchscores.com.
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Tags suggestions #24

Closed cosmo0 closed 3 years ago

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

Tags suggestions

Based on gamedatacrunch's tags collection, and browsing the lists and trying to find useful tags. I obviously don't know every game so it has to be an incomplete list.

I'm trying to think of actually useful tags to limit their number. People like zombies games, so it's a tag, but do people care about "demons" games? I'm not sure.

I think having tag categories/groups would help a lot during tagging, like having nested lists with checkboxes.

I think you can remove: JRPG (too vague/complex), horror, roguelike & tower defence (they are well-defined category).

Genres and sub-genres

Some categories could also be tags when there are multiple games that are "both X and Y".

Gameplay

Setting

Only if distinct from "modern" which seems to be the default

Story

Content

Mood

Multiplayer

Visual styles

Viewpoint

Time

Difficulty

Audience

Retrogaming

Scoring

benbarden commented 3 years ago

This is really good stuff. I think it will definitely help with finding games on the site - there are over 4600 now.

It'll be a big job, especially the search part, which will be necessary so you can actually find the games. I could do that in PHP but it would be better in a proper search engine, which is a bit beyond my capabilities. I might have a go!

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

I'm not sure what you call a "proper search engine"? Something like Elasticsearch? Seems a bit overkill.

There's not that many entries in the DB, a simple query like inner join game_tag [...] where tag_id IN (list,of,tags) should do the trick?

benbarden commented 3 years ago

I mean tools such as Lucene, Solr, ElasticSearch rather than MySQL. It's possible to do it in MySQL, but the matching is much more limited.

If it's just a case of showing a list of tags and clicking on them to view the games, like we do with categories, that's pretty straightforward once tags are working. It gets more difficult when you need to combine several search criteria, such as free text, category, tag, and other filters.

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

I'm not sure such tools are very useful for such a small dataset, 4600 entries is a very small number. Joins for tags and categories should probably still be fast enough, and Mysql even has some sort of full-text search feature.

I'd say try to do something simple, and if it's too slow, only then think about using another tool, otherwise you risk spending a lot of time on it for very little gain.

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

I'm thinking of adding tags "must have" and "exclusive". What do you think?

Update: a bit more details about that.

Exclusives seems pretty self-explanatory: I regularly see people with multiple platforms, their Switch being their "secondary" console, looking for games they can't play elsewhere. It could split "exclusive" (only on Switch/Nintendo platforms) and "console exclusive" (also on PC) but I'm not sure it's necessary.

"Must have" is more complex, and obviously a bit subjective, and maybe not the right word. I see people buying a Switch with like Mario or Zelda, and asking "what else should I buy?" and they want "AAA" games. The "top 100 all time" is good, but it mixes "must haves" (Mario, Zelda...) with games that would more fit in a "indie darlings" or "hidden gems", like 9th Dawn III (it has a very high rank but only 3 reviews) and very niche games like Moero Crystal H (an erotic dungeon crawler). Maybe it shouldn't be a tag, and rather be based on the score but also the number of reviews ? Like top 50 games that are also in the top 50 in number of reviews ? It would certainly make the "big games that everyone talks about" stand out.

benbarden commented 3 years ago

Exclusive could be really useful. One issue is when a game starts as an exclusive but then goes to other platforms. That happened with Super Bomberman R, for example. I think it's more of a field than a tag though.

I see what you're saying with Must have. Not quite sure what would be the best solution to that though...

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

After thinking about it, I think my idea of "top 50 games that are also in the top 50 in number of reviews" would fit. They're basically the best and most talked-about games, which would make them "must haves"?

benbarden commented 3 years ago

"in the top 50 in number of reviews" is the part I'm unclear on.

To give you an idea, if I exclude any games with 6 or fewer reviews (I just chose 6 as the cutoff to try it out), these games are left out of the top 100: (I've not fully spaced it out)

id  title                       game_rank   review_count
3449    Kentucky Route Zero: TV Edition         7       4
4641    9th Dawn III                    12      3
2910    Divinity: Original Sin 2 - Definitive Edition   13      5
4703    Horace                      17      6
623 Undertale                   33      6
1420    Gone Home                   33      3
3735    Children of Zodiarcs                33      3
4546    Moero Crystal H                 33      4
5081    When the Past was Around            33      4
3557    Murder by Numbers               45      6
3109    Return of the Obra Dinn             50      5
3351    The Talos Principle: Deluxe Edition     50      5
5085    Dicey Dungeons                  54      5
1478    TowerFall                   59      3
4488    Mo:Astray                   64      5
324 Deemo                       73      4
1483    Into the Breach                 73      6
3310    Assassin's Creed: The Rebel Collection      73      4
3938    Huntdown                    73      6
665 The Banner Saga 3               87      5
1502    Forgotton Anne                  87      5
8   Shovel Knight: Treasure Trove           93      6
434 Wandersong                  93      6
3386    Nurse Love Addiction                93      3
3845    Yumeutsutsu Re:Master               93      3
cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

I don't see many games that are really must-haves in this list.

Divinity 2 is very good but I rarely see anyone recommend it (and it's more a PC game). Assassin's Creed too, they're good games but getting old. Shovel Knight is a classic but not what I consider a "must have", it's still a retro indie.

The rest are indies, so it's not surprising they don't appear in a "must have" list. They're more "hidden gems", niche games, or "indie darlings".

What's the minimum number of reviews when you query the top 50 order by review_count desc? And then what do you get when you query the top 50 games where review_count >= $reviews order by score desc ? Just to see if the result has some sort of coherence.

benbarden commented 3 years ago

Sorry, I've not come back to this recently. I wonder if some of this might be better as a discussion? I think we're also talking about a few different ideas.

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

Agreed; I'll create a discussion about "must-haves". The rest doesn't seem to be as much a subject of discussion?

Moved discussion about must-haves to #49

benbarden commented 3 years ago

@cosmo0 - Is there more of this issue that needs doing, maybe splitting into a few ideas or discussions? Or can we close it?

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

Would you do the tags categories?

Either way, I still have to create the tags, and then fill them. Could you delete the existing ones?

I would also appreciate an easier interface to add them:

benbarden commented 3 years ago

I was trying to think how best to do this, and while I think the tag categories would be really useful, it could make the interface a lot more complicated. But I think I have a way to do this.

The multiplayer options are a separate thing really - see #76 .

benbarden commented 3 years ago

@cosmo0 - I've got a working version of this on the site. 🎉

Quick overview:

I haven't provided a way to add games to a tag from the tags page as that is a bit more work, but hopefully this is a good enough start. Let me know any feedback!

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

Really cool! Thanks! I'll try to fill a few games and let you know :)

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

@benbarden you've missed the "viewpoint" category

cosmo0 commented 3 years ago

Also, could you sort the tags alphabetically inside the categories, in the "add tag" page ? :)

benbarden commented 3 years ago

Added Viewpoint, and sorted the tags alphabetically. I also fixed a bug where & was being converted to & when editing.