Open huey735 opened 3 years ago
Development:
[SUGGESTION] Flagging users
Give mediators option to flag users. Have field for out of the ordinary users
[SUGGESTION] Store draft of messages between chat windows
Support agents:
Do we need more members?
Not right now
Encourage and redirect members to contribute to the Wiki.
Code of conduct for mediators:
Standardize messages for mediators (@huey735 is working on it)
Should compensation be increased with time spent on a role?
After a certain period it may make sense add a compensation increase for consistent contributors.
Suggestion for possible tiers:
intern - works one cycle as a test
level 1 - fixed amount of USD (200)
level 2 - get compensation increase after 3-6 cycles (500 USD)
consider more increases after
This timeline is only a guide and more knowledgeable contributors can skip levels if the team leaders agree to it.
@huey735 is to share meeting notes on a single issue on the support repository
Mining Fees continues to be an issue
Low liquidity the BSQ market forces contributors to hold BSQ.
Uphold payment method
The make/take offer screen for Uphold screens is in discrepancy with the rest in terms of the duration of trades for this payment method.
Bisq's account system requires, in the creation of an Uphold payment account for the trader to specify a username, email or phone number. However the the payment app displays only the trader's full name. So it's important for Bisq to also require it in order for traders to be able to confirm the identity of their payers.
Code of conduct should be about:
Examples:
Penalties should be visible before to users start trading. Either in the Terms of Services screen or before each trade.
Common Questions - move FAQ to wiki
Suggestion to add an About tab to the Support View
Add link to Support Agents calendar links on the #support channel
Should compensation be increased with time spent on a role?
After a certain period it may make sense add a compensation increase for consistent contributors.
Suggestion for possible tiers:
intern - works one cycle as a test
level 1 - fixed amount of USD (200) 10 hours per week - maybe too low
level 2 - get compensation increase after 3-6 cycles (500 USD)
consider more increases after - 800??
This timeline is only a guide and more knowledgeable contributors can skip levels if the team leaders agree to it.
Think about hours per tier. How to calculate compensation:
Request Give mediators the ability to set payout amounts by percentage (respecting minimum amounts). Currently the software provides 5 options:
BTC buyer gets trade amount BTC buyer gets the trade amount plus their security deposit back. The BTC seller gets their security deposit back.
Max payment to BTC buyer BTC buyer gets the trade amount, their security back plus most of the security deposit of the BTC seller. The BTC seller gets to keep 0.0005 BTC.
BTC seller gets trade amount BTC seller gets the trade amount plus their security deposit back. The buyer seller gets their security deposit back.
Max payment to BTC seller BTC seller gets the trade amount, their security back plus most of the security deposit of the BTC buyer. The BTC buyer gets to keep 0.0005 BTC.
Custom Used for applying penalties which require other divisions of amounts.
Suggestion put slide next to penalties options to select percentages of the trade amount and to whom it should go.
Should the DAO get part of the trader's funds in case of arbitration?
Cap max reimbursement from peers security deposit
How to improve?
How to reduce supply of BSQ How BSQ is burned
How to increase burning BSQ
More people using BSQ for trading fees
Lack of attention to financial side
Have a role for monitoring Bisq's finances. Accountant? Is trading fees enough to compensate contributors?
After mediation is opened and a payout suggestion is made by the Mediator the Confirm Payment Received should be locked.
Suggestion
What about a "payment not received" button which locks the "payment received" button, to avoid accidents. Pressing "payment not received" could be reversed. Seems easy to implement.
Call it a "lock payment received" button.
Scenarios:
Can BTC seller release btc even after trade duration is over after mediation is opened?
I think it's locked when mediation is bad for seller only.
Get answer from devs
We considered adding more mediators. And rethink how the handling of cases is done and how we other mediators/support agents could be assigned cases in case the first mediator isn't available or loses access to the trade data.
We also touched on the need to have a better grasp of Bisq finances. Currently there is no detailed accounting taking place and it would be great if we could improve on that.
Development:
Support agents:
Do we need more members?
Not right now. Cases are lower or similar than last cycle
Better communication and response to users through keybase and the rest of platforms
for mediators:
For all support calls have an update of all cases that are still open. And what bugs need to be solved.
Read conza's suggestions: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/discussions/5271#discussioncomment-1217952
Recent discussions about compensation from a previous support agent.
Refund Agent mentioned the double payment issue he faced this cycle.
- Topics for next call:
Development:
Reach out to pedro what are the current suggestions for improvement? what needs to be done for new coiners to use bisq?
Mobile App:
-Devin, can we have an update on the already existing app?
-Add buttons to go from step 1 to stage 2
Add more payment methods (Paxful has +400)
Add top 5 altcoins in volume (start with Tether)
for mediators:
-Have XMR users give feedback. Through Keybase and mediation dispute. -For all support calls have an update of all cases that are still open. And what bugs need to be solved. -Read conza's suggestions: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/discussions/5271#discussioncomment-1217952
Current 0.25 BTC limit for fiat trades, should we increase it?
Monero traders activate the auto-confirm on their settings.
Better marketing in Developing countries where CEX are banned? (Venezuela, Nigeria, China...)
Bugs: Biggest drivers for people to leave bisq:
- Topics for next call:
Refund Agent's dispute issue:
Comptroller role: -(https://bisq.network/dashboard/) -Do we still need the comptroller role? how much of this is automated?
Mediations, support cases
Review of the new dispute resolution window
- Topics for next call:
Priorities/ Short term objectives
Discussed specific user cases and how to approach them. -(https://bisq.network/dashboard/) -Do we still need the comptroller role? how much of this is automated?
Proposal by @pazza83 to make it easier for users to share their bisq logs: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/5906
Proposal to analyze the blockchain data https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/352
- Topics for next call:
DAO files get corrupted chimps looked into it, currently reviewing this case
Exception error pop up. From saving the account.
-Previous proposal that have been discussed:
Proposal by @pazza83 to make it easier for users to share their bisq logs: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/5906
Proposal to analyze the blockchain data https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/352
- Topics for next call: Apply changes to the payment method window
Improvement proposal of table of penalties https://gist.github.com/w0000000t/6d9ba235578a4fbcbf01154f491f8119
We should have a weekly bullet point list to go over + goals:
The idea for next week is for each support team member to have a task at hand that can improve the overall experience (improving table of penalties, add information to the bisq.wiki...)
- Topics for next call:
Going over the penalties table: https://gist.github.com/w0000000t/6d9ba235578a4fbcbf01154f491f8119
Weekly bullet point list:
The idea for next week is for each support team member to have a task at hand that can improve the overall experience (improving table of penalties, add information to the bisq.wiki...)
- Topics for next call:
General feelings were that things are going well with support. Quiet with no major issues.
Topics discussed included:
Trade mpcfvoz
resolved by @w0000000t and @jmacxx where a users trade payout address was reused from prior trade & no funds received. This is now the third documented case of it occuring. A fix is in progress to stop this from recurring: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/5725#issuecomment-1032000174
Discussed the case of a user that risked losing 500 BSQ by using their Bisq Bitcoin wallet in a wallet application than other than Bisq. Support team confirmed warning were clear on both Bisq app (Wallet Info) and on the Wiki that using another application was not recommended and that you should NEVER send BSQ from a non BSQ wallet. @sqrrm explained to the user how they could confirm if their BSQ were recoverable.
@pazza83 said 50% of manual payouts were being done in cases where both users had already accepted mediation. Will make a proposal to outline issue and ask for input as to how it could be addressed.
@jmacxx mentioned an issue were a BSQ swap was unable to be taken. This is documented here: https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/6033
@w0000000t will look at creating an issue / proposal around Traders being able to filter offers by signed status, and/or making offers that are only able to be taken by signed payment methods.
@pazza83 to investigate why a user might have been able to take a SEPA offer of over 0.01 BTC without having a signed account.
Updates on the above
BUGS:
Weekly bullet point list:
The idea for next week is for each support team member to have a task at hand that can improve the overall experience (improving table of penalties, add information to the bisq.wiki...)
- Topics for next call:
[BUGS]:
[Suggestions/Observations]:
[Mediation Cases] Going over the penalties table: https://bisq.wiki/Table_of_penalties
Weekly bullet point list:
. . . Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
[BUGS]:
how to make users join getyourfirstBTC room on matrix more easily, make the room show by default on join? (MnM covered instructions for this at https://bisq.wiki/Matrix_bisq.chat#Joining_channels )
https://github.com/bisq-network/roles/issues/80#issuecomment-1049051701 Pazza will make a proposal about having burningman follow an agreed protocol to burn BSQ? referring to the 64K BSQ refund should bisq "hold reserves" for contributors? medium-long term plan with monthly profit?
some users should be able to trade directly with BM depending on situation. (reimbursements) ask refundagent to give special treatment for users who have been refunded so they can sell BSQ more easily proposal by pazza to establish a BSQ/BTC rate (equal to the original refund rate?) to honour for user being refunded by burningman, probably for the time of a cycle's duration.
Weekly bullet point list:
- Topics for next call:
100$ pay increase to support agents after 6 months (added by pazza in private support room)
[BUGS]:
[Suggestions/Observations]:
[Bisq 2.0]
On bisq2: James: I wouldn't be really happy to burn that much BSQ to get a monthly subscription. Initially there is not going to be much volume, if you burn 100 BSQ then how much volume do you need to have to get that back? locking up a bond? if forces you to behave as a seller.
Bisq2 fee model: burned BSQ from sellers to be able to sell, each month, or N amount BSQ as a bond that can be unlocked in the future. No foreseeable volume in getyourfirstbtc room and so in future bisq2's version of the room; also way more risks than it makes sense.
Weekly bullet point list:
- Topics for next call:
Pros:
Cons:
My computer crashed last week so writing these from memory.
Topics discussed included:
Should BSQ be listed on other exchanges - Support team have left comments on GitHub issue
BSQ price falling recently in BSQ/BTC terms - what affects it? and is anything that should be actioned? It was decided that no actions were needed
User in Telegram was concerned that having trade info deleted after x days might mean they have less evidence to supply to their bank should they be accused of something nefarious. Decided they should look to use another bank if their bank was asking lots of questions regarding transfers.
Locked fund issues - These are rare but occasionally due to both traders be unresponsive, or problems with on unresponsive users and another user losing access to data manual payouts / pushing funds to donation address is not possible. Both mediators have a small amount of cases (~ 4) with users that have funds locked in multi-sigs with no way to access them. Discussed how funds being sent to donation address automatically might solve this. @MwithM shared concerns this would be bad in scenarios where Burning Man had been compromised. @pazza83 said they would ask @jmacxx is there could be a solution that would be feasible.
Discussion around the proposal have a clearly defined process for how Burning man trades BTC from donation and trade fee addresses for BSQ
Updates on the above
Filling in from my own notes as I noticed the notes are missing for following calls
See previous entry
Attendants: leo, pazza, mwithm, jmacxx and w000000t
[BUGS]:
Weekly bullet point list:
- Topics for next call:
Topics discussed included:
Quick update from @leo816 on the Bitcoin 2022 conference. All went well. Bisq had some good discussions with some potential new contributors. Will update us more next call.
Locked fund issues - This was discussed at length. @jmacxx, @w0000000t and @MwithM all felt adding another key holder to the deposit transaction, or doing an automatic payout to the donation address, from the mutli-sig would create potential security issues. @jmacxx was also against automatic delayed payout in principle, it would be like taking the funds of the users, and it is debatable as a policy. It was also agreed by all that locked funds are usually the result of both traders involved neglecting their Trade outcome for a long time. The recently accepted proposal of reimbursement requests to only be valid if submitted within 3 months now puts more importance on traders doing what they can to resolve issues within 3 months. There is now no longer the expectation of DAO assistance should a user approach the support team with a historic issue. @MwithM considered that it might be possible for users to upload delayed payout tx to the cloud as a safety backup, but it was also agreed this should be the responsibility of the users to action if appropriate for themselves rather than something Bisq should implement. After long discussing on the topic, we decided to keep the responsibility with the users themselves, if they lose credentials and access to bisq data directory, then so be it, this is what comes with self custody; all the alternatives will pose the risk of a single point of failure where a corrupted individual in a trusted role, receiving/controlling the delayed payout instead of the users, could exploit their position.
@MwithM brought up the repeated requests received on Telegram for new coin listings. New coins listing are currently on hold and have been for some time. There is potential this will be included in Bisq 2. It would be good to know what the social trading model will enable users to trade. Will it be any asset to any asset?
Following on from the discussion about trade pairs / new coins listings @MwithM mentioned the proposal to Add Monero to fiat trading pairs using BTC as the security deposit (multi-sig). This could be used for trading any asset on Bisq with BTC as collateral.
@MwithM discussion a possible option of using a stable coin as collateral should something like the above be implemented. @pazza83 discussed how they would like to be able to use BSQ as collateral for trading. @jmacxx liked this idea and felt it would be good to further explore it as BSQ wallet is already built into Bisq and it would be good to give BSQ holders the possibility of using their BSQ as collateral. BSQ able to be used as collateral would also incentivize contributors to hold onto it.
@w0000000t brought up the idea of a Bisq user that suggested implementing coinjoins directly into Bisq, as a means to also be additional income for the DAO, which would act as coordinator like in wasabi and samourai and earn fees; it would still be a very complex endeavor, development-wise.
BSQ privacy issues - Team felt the privacy issues regarding BSQ should be discussed. By voting in the DAO you are disclosing your holdings, plus all your voting history. It is good practice to use two different instances for voting and trading. There was some discussion of how contributors might be less inclined to vote in DAO cycles for privacy reasons, this is an issue when quorum is low like last cycle. There was also discussion about possible privacy implications of linking BSQ compensation to contributors GitHub profiles. It was felt Bisq is stronger when users participate in the DAO and that it would be good to consider ways participation in the DAO can be more private.
Team discussed recent CR by opticbit. Team was in favour of this getting accepted and receiving the required votes.
Last month less than 20% of trading fees was paid via BSQ. It would be good for this to be higher. Team discussed if privacy might be a factor in keeping this low. Last month the percentage of trade fees paid in BSQ was at it's lowest levels. @pazza83 reported big volume trades (2 BTC) still almost all use BSQ, but small trades are the largest volume overall, and their fees are usually paid with BTC.
Updates on the above including events from the conference.
Attendants: leo, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx and mwithm
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx and mwithm
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
w000000t added section on wiki for payment started stuck button
Debate about users taking offers with the purpose of inflitcting penalty on peer. discussing probable good will of above seller... they asked to meet far away from the city as well general agreement about 1-200USD penalty as a one time thing because of new rule.
one-time popup to remind users to follow rules or they risk losing money, discussing contents brief discussion about chimp's GH comment regarding the math behind the reputation score for satoshi square; will it be a success? going from keybase/matrix experience, that might need to be seen, but it's still a first base for Bisq2 Commenting on CD podcast #62 (from 1h49m), DAO's importance should have been stressed more Pazza is bullish about BSQ but defdending the rights of contributors to sell it all if they so wish.
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx, mwithm and Refund Agent
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
.
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx, mwithm
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Add a change to ban de revolut sort code for faster payments. Discussing https://github.com/bisq-network/bisq/issues/6218 would be a safety measure to avoid trade flow interruptions. jmacxx poses issue with just "banning accounts" which might look like not being neutral on Bisq's part. Leo considers either it is banned, or penalties being given to users who cannot manage to pay. w000000t also thinks there could be placed a warning for users about the issue, also for using revolut as sepa, but leaving them responsible to get a penalty if the payment doesn't work. jmacxx: banning is easier than showing a notification after a check MwithM: we would be banning an account that we don't know will not work, and maybe will resume normal function in the future pazza: banning is especially useful if new users join and don't know about the proposal, and create that account that's at risk of not working
Add statement about "every BTC is fungible at Bisq" on the wiki (we all agreed on this one) On the proposal there wasn't much involvement, and one downvote, which wasn't explained. Thumbs down most probably not from pazza's mediation with user complaining about "unclean" utxo and wanting to cancel
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx, opticbit
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Users complaining about mediation closures not being clear enough so they don't know if they were penalized or not, maybe make suggestions clearer?
opticbit came as a guest on the call to talk over a mediation ticket that has a difficult solution. Reporting on CBM safety measures and shortcomings/scamming openings, discussing signing and insurance required for CBM. On this particular case, funds seem to have gotten lost/tampered with. Mediators have no real way of proving if the problem came from the buyer or the seller. deposits are on hold at the moment until this clears out with better evidence.
user asking about mediators' SLA on matrix (he was answered by pazza already and seemed like an impatient user.
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx, mwithm
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
jmacxx working on next release
w000000t: same issues all past week mostly about tor, and tor induced hiccups things appear to be getting better network-wise by looking at trades history
jmacxx: workaround by choosing only seednodes that are showing as normally responding, rather than letting bisq choose a random one, including the ones with issues; maybe we can release guide to do it manually, w000000t can probably write a wiki article to that extent
pazza: seller received fiat payment during dispute, wanted to close the trade, buyer wasn't responding, seller didn't want to penalize the buyer also in order to possibly avoid arbitration; asking about buttons action during mediation, in case suggestion is the same as what the normal trade payout would be.
jmacxx: normally working seednodes have reached, at the time of speaking, a high % of the total, so as of now there shouldn't be the need to alert higher levels and devs about acting on tor issues
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx, mwithm
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Attendants: leo816, pazza, w000000t, jmacxx
1. Priorities/ Short term objectives
Mediations:
jmacxx: One weirds case with a user that took a bunch of trades at the same time but it seems the user's machine freezed for 3-4 days. During that time the messages are not going through. Chimp has to look into the logs to evaluate what happened.
pazza: did a lot of manual payouts, and several mediation suggestions being accepted didn't get published requiring manual intervention, or arbitrations not starting properly regarding profit reports, 0.65% of trade fees being received, chimp would aim to 0.8%, MnM suggested to reduce the BSQ discounts
leo : mediations decreased, but similar issues to pazza; an additional user asked to become part of the support team pazza asked jmacxx to work into a way to have traders "resend" the payout transaction during mediation when first attempt fails, rather than having to go on with manual payout
People not seeing the mediation proposal, probably due to the tor issue. Pazza more present in matrix and reddit.
w000000t reporting about past week's highlights, users asking about own node, voting process, BSQ dust
2. Suggestions/Observations:
Future updates:
- Topics for next call:
Issue for summary of Bisq Support Calls