Open Cobra-Bitcoin opened 3 years ago
TheBlueMatt
commented
3 years ago It may make sense to point out in the statement that, in fact, many individuals have asserted copyright over the Bitcoin whitepaper, and link to a few examples. When CSW registered it in the US at least a handful of other people also went and registered it, and there's also that dutch guy who files court briefs in half of Craig's cases.
time0x
commented
3 years ago Please sue him, don't hide in the dark.
rockstardev
commented
3 years ago Thanks for fighting the good fight @Cobra-Bitcoin, and making effort to contain the impact of this frivolous litigation to the locale that enables this nonsense.
I believe this will unfold exactly as you're saying in the last paragraph. But it'll take a lot of actual work for that - it's inspiring to see people like you who are willingly taking the burden of making this happen.
Cobra-Bitcoin
commented
3 years ago @TheBlueMatt I have no control of the wording. You can see the order here https://github.com/bitcoin-dot-org/Bitcoin.org/blob/3f0de3d0562efccc2f9291c5ffdf5afd43e73102/IL-2021-000008-Wright-v-Cobra.pdf.
The exact text is:
“On 28 June 2021 the High Court of England and Wales made an order in Claim No. IL-2021-000008 between Dr Craig Wright and the person or persons responsible for the publication of this website whereby such person or persons were restrained from infringing Dr Wright’s copyright in the Bitcoin White Paper. The claim was not defended, and judgment was entered in default. A copy of the order is available at the following link: [link to a page on the Bitcoin.org Website from where a copy of the order may be downloaded].”
tshabs
commented
3 years ago Please also include a link to an explanation of geoblocking (such as https://medium.com/mysterium-network/what-does-geoblocking-mean-is-it-just-a-form-of-censorship-4d887ade3fb4 or ideally something better/more neutral) for affected users.
Edit: maybe a link to this (explaining as motivation for complying) is more suitable: https://www.451unavailable.org/uk-blocking-orders/
rt121212121
commented
3 years ago Hey Cobbie,
Long time, no see. I am very glad to see that you are thinking right and obeying the law, and looking to keep your ability to enter the United Kingdom. It's a great place, and I love travelling there. I would suggest you ignore other people who recommend you use geo-blocking and other workarounds without consulting a UK lawyer. There are too many anti-law nutjobs in the Bitcoin Core community, who have nothing at stake themselves but are right there to push others to risk themselves. These people are not your friends.
I will do what the others who do not have your best interests at heart will not and point out the order says "or any other way". This repository is littered with both English and other language other ways, that are directly tied to you committing them, and having them in your repository. It seems to me that you have two options, either get Github to geo-block the UK or delete the whole repository. The PDF is littered throughout the commit history, maybe you could rebase to remove every commit that has a copy in any language but that sounds very easy to get wrong. It has to be removed completely from this repository and it's commit history in any case.
Is this the only thing you've overlooked? I do not know. I suggest deleting all your repositories and web sites within 30 days just to make sure.
Best, RT.
rt121212121
commented
3 years ago Got another one for you, if your content is replicated on archive.org, you should probably block their site with a 403 or whatever it is that causes them to deindex your site. Not doing it might be considered "other ways". Again, get a UK lawyer and ask them, do not risk having life long problems with entering the UK for not following an order. It's good you are aware of this extra problem now so you know you have to act on it.
stels13d
commented
3 years ago BTC no longer has a whitepaper.
i-rme
commented
3 years ago You are doing the correct thing, have all our support as a community.
Thank you!
cwaldron
commented
3 years ago @i-rme your sentiments are easy to say but will you be there when the law hammers Cobra with contempt? I don't think so. He really needs to follow @rt121212121 cogent advice and consult with a UK lawyer and stop messing around with CSW.
TheBlueMatt
commented
3 years ago Unless you are cobra you don’t get to decide for cobra what level of legal risk is appropriate. You can ask if something is within their risk tolerance, but the rest is up to them.
On Jul 1, 2021, at 14:44, cwaldron @.***> wrote:
@i-rme your sentiments are easy but will you be there when the law hammers Cobra with contempt? I don't think so. He really needs to follow @rt121212121 cogent advice and consult with a UK lawyer and stop messing around with CSW.
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rt121212121
commented
3 years ago Here are some more problem points. Hosting intentionally defamatory posters and their "distributed" links to the paper in this repository may also be problematic "other ways", again whether it is, ask your UK lawyer. This is possible other content to be deleted, at this point there are so many problems given Github won't geoblock UK from the repo, that I suspect you will have to delete the repo pending legal advice to make sure you are not on the UK shitlist.
Cobra-Bitcoin
commented
3 years ago I think the key thing to remember is that for the vast majority of visitors, the site is exactly the same, and nothing has changed. It's not really a win for them in any meaningful sense. They're celebrating this like the biggest "good news" to happen in BSV land in a while. They got the whitepaper blocked in one country? Big whoop.
I'd rather accept that mild annoyance than deal with a case that could go on for half a decade. He will submit hundreds of documents like he did with the McCormack case. Cases don't just go to trial right away, they take years to get to that point. Kleiman v Wright isn't even over yet. Even when I do win, he will just appeal it and drag it out even longer. It's easy to forget how horrible the legal system can be. I've seen what happened to others involved in legal battles with him. McCormack had to sign over his home to his lawyers, he's £500k in debt. If he loses his case against Craig he could well go bankrupt and have nothing left to pass on to his heirs. Even if he wins, he could still go bankrupt. Craig is probably judgement proof. What's Peter going to get from him? A few computers, and a fake Rolex?
Yes someone can get "backing" for costs. But it's not just about the money, there are tons of procedural steps in litigation. There's endless hearings, documents that need to be prepared, disclosure requirements, back and forth between lawyers, having to explain to your lawyers basic things (they will have no idea what a PGP signature even is). There's also the very real possibility that the party backing you decides to just stop... because it's an unnecessary expense, and while it gave them a lot of goodwill with the community when the case started, people have forgotten, and so they gradually get less enthusiastic about paying your ever increasing legal bills as you approach trial.
The tone I seem to get from the top people in BSV (Craig/Calvin) is frustration, and not genuine happiness they "won". That's because they don't actually want to win these cases or see them conclude quickly, they want to harass. Calvin just sort of said "this is far from over" grudgingly. When the developers took down the whitepaper from bitcoincore.org, they just sued them for some other crap. Calvin has a whole startup to sue the developers with (TokenRecovery). I think various prominent people in Bitcoin need to plan for endless lawsuits from these people, they aren't going to stop anytime soon. For whatever dumb reason, they seem determined to harass us all with this nonsense forever as some sort of revenge for our small block sins, or whatever.
@rt121212121 Shut the fuck up. You aren't my lawyer.
rt121212121
commented
3 years ago You dug your own hole. I doubt you even have a lawyer, with this clown show you've put on.
cwaldron-nib
commented
3 years ago Unless you are cobra you don’t get to decide for cobra what level of legal risk is appropriate. You can ask if something is within their risk tolerance, but the rest is up to them. …
Says the person who believe that this lawsuit was "frivolous". You clearly don't what what "passing off" legally means. I suggest you look it up.
ocZio
commented
3 years ago Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
carnhofdaki
commented
3 years ago @Cobra-Bitcoin kudos and respect. In the end we are all real people. Whoever misuses our identity for real-world hurt, is not worthy of your time. Even our real identities are random and it all boils down to how we react. What we do. Whether we do anything. Often it is better to do nothing.
@rt121212121 either did not understand my jokes or is joking my way, but even more hard-core. Fair enough, anyway.
melroy89
commented
3 years ago UK is lately really again Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general. Also because they want to introduce their own digital coin (CBDC) from the Bank of England.
I think UK is hitting themselves in the long term. But not my issue.
lodembeep
commented
4 months ago reopening this issue in the light of :
Maybe something can be done to cancel the other court order since craigh is now accused of perjury.
Hey guys,
As judgement has now been entered against me for "copyright infringement", I'll soon receive a UK court order to stop broadcasting the Bitcoin whitepaper to the UK. The court order will be published on the usual UK judgements site (https://www.bailii.org/). I've been shown a draft, and the heading of the order reads:
Obviously, Bitcoin.org has to follow the laws of the land in the jurisdictions it serves. The UK makes up a noticeable amount of our traffic, and the UK ISPs will block us if we don't comply. Undoing such a block would come at great expense and would take some time, as all things legal tend to do. On balance of "how can we maximize the good we do?" I think complying with the order and continuing to serve UK visitors other valuable Bitcoin educational material is important. The Bitcoin whitepaper doesn't get tons of traffic each day (there's obviously some days with lots of traffic like a prominent person tweets out the link to it), and even then, this order is only limited to just UK visitors.
Also, I don't want anyone associated with the company behind Bitcoin.org, if ever identified, and if even temporarily in the UK, to be at risk of potentially 2 years in jail. Indeed, as one judge in relevant UK case law put it:
It goes without saying that I don't want to put myself and others at risk of some serious time in a UK jail.
Shortly after I receive the order the following changes will be made to the website:
I believe at some point the COPA case will prove Wright perjured himself in obtaining this judgement and order. Hopefully in the next few years he'll be brought to justice. We live in a stupid world where people can get locked away for years for relatively minor offences like drug possession, however people like Wright can just continue on abusing the courts with no real consequences. It sucks that me, hodlonaut, McCormack, and various Bitcoin developers have to deal with this nonsense, but truth will prevail in the end and liars like him can never succeed in trying to stop Bitcoin's success no matter how hard they try.