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blunalucero / MODS-RDF

MODS RDF is an RDF ontology for MODS. As MODS is an XML schema for a bibliographic element set, MODS RDF is an expression of that element set in RDF.
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Principal Name, Principal title, and Name/Title #12

Closed melanieWacker closed 9 years ago

melanieWacker commented 10 years ago

Principal Name was introduced to support the Name/Title concept. Principal Title distinguishes the title from the uniform title. If both a principal title and a uniform title are included in the record, then a name/title is constructed. For background see: Principal Name, Principal title, and Name/Title Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress, December 13, 2013

1) Do we need to retain these concepts in MODS/RDF? 2) Are there use cases?

mixterj commented 10 years ago

Could someone provide a few example records where the Principal Name and Title are used? From a modeling standpoint, I think the properties (or at least their values) are important but I am not sure what to call them.

mjhan3 commented 10 years ago

The document "Development of a MODS RDF Ontology Discussion Point' mentioned that there would be a 'later' paper that explains more about this (p.6).But I guess there will be no paper. I understand a concept of Principal title and principal title, but not sure about whether we have to have these in MODS/RDF. Also the top element has the subelement . Is this same for the Principal Name? Will keep thinking and looking around. Any comments are appreciated.

melanieWacker commented 10 years ago

Hi MJ, yes, there was one. I just uploaded it here: https://github.com/blunalucero/MODS-RDF/blob/master/Discussion%20paper%20on%20Principal%20Name%2C%20Principal%20Title%20and%20Name%20Title

raydAtLC commented 10 years ago

see http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/modsrdf/examples/0009.rdf it has a principal name, principal title, and nameTitle

melanieWacker commented 10 years ago

Notes from 1/29/14 working group call: This concept was integrated into MODS XML very late. It wasn't carried over into BIBFRAME since it is the equivalent of a BIBFRAME work. The group agreed that a message should be sent to the general list for community input. Is anybody actually using it?

mjhan3 commented 10 years ago

I looked at the MODS/RDF example (http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/modsrdf/examples/0009.rdf) and the MODS/RDF xsl (http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/modsrdf/xsl-files/modsrdf.xsl). I can understand the importance of having these as properties but am not completely understand how these can be/will be used. (Maybe these names - labels - confuse us to understand the real meanings and usages of them?) Without any use cases, this is a hard topic to discuss further.

raydAtLC commented 10 years ago

I think principalName and nameTitle are both no longer relevant.

‘name’ in MODS XML is a top-level element; each name expresses a role. (Well some don’t but let’s just say that those who don’t have role ‘role’.) But that’s not how we’re doing it in RDF. Rather, for the resource being described there are agents that have roles and a role is expressed as a property of the resource, with the agent as its object (as opposed to the agent being a property of the resource and the role a property of the agent). ‘principalName’ is intended to convey that this is the name of the agent most important in the creation of the resource. If we wanted to convey that in our RDF, I suppose we could define a property ‘principalCreator’ (not that I necessarily recommend that). In any case principalName would not apply.

nameTitle is used in LC MODSRDF because of its coupling with MADS RDF, which uses nameTitle. Since this work is not coupled with MADS, there isn’t any reason to retain the concept of nameTitle.

Now as to principalTitle, I think it is still relevant. MODS XML defines the attribute ‘type’ for title, with values “abbreviated”, etc. The attribute may be omitted, in which case it is the principal title. We have since regretted that we didn’t just make the ‘type’ attribute mandatory and added value ‘principal’, or perhaps ‘main’. But the omission of the type attribute signals that this title is the real one and all the others are variations of some sort. Anyway, there is discussion of title types and how they should translate to properties, in another thread.

Ray

From: mjhan3 [mailto:notifications@github.com] Sent: Monday, March 31, 2014 6:14 PM To: blunalucero/MODS-RDF Cc: raydAtLC Subject: Re: [MODS-RDF] Principal Name, Principal title, and Name/Title (#12)

I looked at the MODS/RDF example (http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/modsrdf/examples/0009.rdf) and the MODS/RDF xsl (http://www.loc.gov/standards/mods/modsrdf/xsl-files/modsrdf.xsl). I can understand the importance of having these as properties but am not completely understand how these can be/will be used. (Maybe these names - labels - confuse us to understand the real meanings and usages of them?) Without any use cases, this is a hard topic to discuss further.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/blunalucero/MODS-RDF/issues/12#issuecomment-39149021 . https://github.com/notifications/beacon/4854536__eyJzY29wZSI6Ik5ld3NpZXM6QmVhY29uIiwiZXhwaXJlcyI6MTcxMTkyMzI1MywiZGF0YSI6eyJpZCI6MjMyMjEwMDF9fQ==--b4dbbc2050e6b5340f1d3d8da8daf843a27cef01.gif

melanieWacker commented 9 years ago

Working Group recommendation is not to include this concept in MODS RDF version 2. https://github.com/blunalucero/MODS-RDF/wiki/Minutes,-Conference-Call,-MODS-RDF-Sub-Working-Group,-pt.-2,-January-29,-2014