Open jelockwood opened 3 years ago
@jelockwood
I know about these two products. Made by 3rd company, sold by Daikin. See also: http://www.realtime-controls.co.uk/index.php/site/product-list/C1/
These are quite old products. RTD-W is (was) for Altherma HT. Could (or could not) be compatible with Altherma 3 HT.
RTD-LT/CA was for the very first "CA" generation of Altherma LT. Did not try it. But according to the manual (and according to Daikin representative to whom I talked few years ago), it is not compatible with the second "CB" generation of Altherma LT (I have second generation Altherma LT which has CB in the product name: EHVX08S26CB9W ). I very much doubt it would be compatible with the newest (3rd) generation of Altherma.
BTW there is another commercial P1P2 <-> Modbus solution by Intesis, but probably only for Daikin cooling units: https://www.intesis.com/products/ac-interfaces/daikin-gateways
And of course, P1P2 <-> KNX solution by Zennio, compatible with Altherma 3: https://www.zennio.com/products/clima/klic-da
Today we installed a Altherma 3 H HT W (ETBH16EF9W) and Daikin told me to use the DCOM-LT/IO unit for Modbus access:
You are right! Thanks for sharing the info, I did not know about it (probably some new product).
There is also a "DCOM-LT/MB" unit. Only Modbus, no relays, no analog inputs. Probably cheaper.
You can check its capabilities by looking at Modbus registers here:
Issue reopened for others to see.
EDIT: Yep, 400€ ....
Thanks for the Info... I will look for the /MB version...
I'm searching for a solution to query some values and switch the functions heat/cooling/water on/off.
Because i want to disable the water heat function at night when the next days we have more than 8 hours of sun. But cooling should still possible, so i can't use the solarlock input. And on the other side i want only allow cooling when i have solar power or enough power in my battery's.
In the past we had a Novelan/Luxtronic device and that o controlled from my linux server with a python script. The same i want to create now with the Altherma.
hi there, do you know where I purchase the DCOM-LT/MB in the UK please? Thanks
Thanks for the Info... I will look for the /MB version...
I'm searching for a solution to query some values and switch the functions heat/cooling/water on/off.
Because i want to disable the water heat function at night when the next days we have more than 8 hours of sun. But cooling should still possible, so i can't use the solarlock input. And on the other side i want only allow cooling when i have solar power or enough power in my battery's.
In the past we had a Novelan/Luxtronic device and that o controlled from my linux server with a python script. The same i want to create now with the Altherma.
I have an Daikin Altherma 3 H MT W connected with the DCOM LT/MB Modul.
I can set via Modbus the following values:
1 Leaving Water Main Heating Setpoint / 25 .. 55ºC 2 Leaving Water Main Cooling Setpoint / 5 .. 22ºC 3 Operation Mode / 0: Auto, 1:Heating, 2:Cooling 4 Space Heating/Cooling On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 6 Room Thermostat Control Heating Setpoint / 12 .. 30ºC 7 Room Thermostat Control Cooling Setpoint / 15 .. 35ºC 9 Quiet Mode Operation 0:OFF 1:ON 10 DHW Reheat Setpoint / 30 .. 60ºC 12 DHW Reheat On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 13 DHW Booster Mode On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 53 Weather Dependent Mode / 0:Fixed 1: Weather Dependent 2: Fixed+Scheduled 3: Weather Dependent+Scheduled 54 Weather Dependent Mode LWT Heating Setpoint Offset / -10 .. 10ºC 55 Weather Dependent Mode LWT Cooling Setpoint Offset / -10 .. 10ºC
It works quite well.
MichaelST01 would you mind sharing how you did this over ModBus? I have almost the same setup: A Daikin Altherma 3 H HT W connected with DCOM LT/MB module. But I am only capable of reading some registers and can't find a way to control the operating mode (start/stop) or change water main heating setpoint. Only documentation I found is in the DCOM manual - perhaps you have another reference?
I did it the following way: Hardware - DCOM LT/MB -> PE11 (Modbus RTU to TCP) For testing I had iobroker with modbus interface (installed as master) installed and I changed the values of the holding registers in the object tree. Why I need it is that I have Photovoltaic on the roof and I use the heatpump to power the pool (so I have to switch to fixed Temperature and set the Leaving Water Main Heating Setpoint to a higher value 45°. If I switch of the pool-heating I change the value back to weather dependent mode or I switch room heating completly off.
In the final version I use a UVR16x2 (www.ta.co.at) with a modbus RTU interface to control it. It also controls the heating circuits of the house (from the puffer).
@budulinek
Did you find any Modbus Device/Module for the "CB" Generation? I have the EHBX11CB9W and looking for an working modbus device.
@MichaelST01
I have a similar configuration: A Daikin Altherma 3 H HT W connected to a DCOM LT/IO module. I can only read some registers but not write, e.g. to change the operating mode. As a controller, the UVR16x2 connected to the CAN-BC2 including the Modbus board. Would it be possible to get the necessary files (.dat, .tdw)? It would help me a lot, thanks in advance. @hdm64a
@hdm64a
No problem, here are the files. At the moment I switch the pool heating manually on with UVR16x2 (when it is on the Daikin changes operating mode, and sets Temperature to 43°C, when it is off it switches operating mode back). But I suppose you have a different hydraulic setup.
Hello,
Thank you for the files. For me the programming of the communication Uvr16x2 <-> Dcom <-> Daikin is the most important. I will try to implement this in my hydraulic plan in the near future.
Best regards.
Jo
Are you from Germany?
Gesendet: Dienstag, 18. Juli 2023 um 09:06 Uhr Von: "MichaelST01" @.> An: "budulinek/arduino-altherma-controller" @.> Cc: "hdm64a" @.>, "Mention" @.> Betreff: Re: [budulinek/arduino-altherma-controller] Daikin and Modbus interface (Issue #4)
@hdm64a
No problem, here are the files. At the moment I switch the pool heating manually on with UVR16x2 (when it is on the Daikin changes operating mode, and sets Temperature to 43°C, when it is off it switches operating mode back). But I suppose you have a different hydraulic setup.
TDW Files.zip
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I am from Austria, that's why the comments in the files are in German :-)
Hello,
I have problems switching the WP on and off via the Modbus. How do you do that or do you know a solution. Thank you.
Gesendet: Dienstag, 25. Juli 2023 um 12:36 Uhr Von: "MichaelST01" @.> An: "budulinek/arduino-altherma-controller" @.> Cc: "hdm64a" @.>, "Mention" @.> Betreff: Re: [budulinek/arduino-altherma-controller] Daikin and Modbus interface (Issue #4)
I am from Austria, that's why the comments in the files are in German :-)
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DCOM Configuration Mode.pdf For completion, the description for the config mode. Helped me.
Thanks for the Info... I will look for the /MB version... I'm searching for a solution to query some values and switch the functions heat/cooling/water on/off. Because i want to disable the water heat function at night when the next days we have more than 8 hours of sun. But cooling should still possible, so i can't use the solarlock input. And on the other side i want only allow cooling when i have solar power or enough power in my battery's. In the past we had a Novelan/Luxtronic device and that o controlled from my linux server with a python script. The same i want to create now with the Altherma.
I have an Daikin Altherma 3 H MT W connected with the DCOM LT/MB Modul.
I can set via Modbus the following values:
1 Leaving Water Main Heating Setpoint / 25 .. 55ºC 2 Leaving Water Main Cooling Setpoint / 5 .. 22ºC 3 Operation Mode / 0: Auto, 1:Heating, 2:Cooling 4 Space Heating/Cooling On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 6 Room Thermostat Control Heating Setpoint / 12 .. 30ºC 7 Room Thermostat Control Cooling Setpoint / 15 .. 35ºC 9 Quiet Mode Operation 0:OFF 1:ON 10 DHW Reheat Setpoint / 30 .. 60ºC 12 DHW Reheat On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 13 DHW Booster Mode On/Off / 0:OFF 1:ON 53 Weather Dependent Mode / 0:Fixed 1: Weather Dependent 2: Fixed+Scheduled 3: Weather Dependent+Scheduled 54 Weather Dependent Mode LWT Heating Setpoint Offset / -10 .. 10ºC 55 Weather Dependent Mode LWT Cooling Setpoint Offset / -10 .. 10ºC
It works quite well.
Hi i got the DCOM-LT/IO and a waveshare RS485 To ETH im able to connect to the modbus but im lost in the config can you point me where to set it up?
Thanks
Hi, i have now a Daikin HomeHub, this part replaces the DCOM and can used with Modbus RTU "or" Modbus TCP. So there i no need for a additional RS485 to ETH gateway. I have also tryed a waveshare product, but this product has the same limitation like all cheap chinese gateways. It will discard TCP payloads with more than one Modbus TCP part inside...
This Home Hub sounds very promising, but getting it seems somewhat difficult. It was introduced the end of last year. Could you share where you bought or got it from?
Here in germany from our installer, he got it from his Daikin reseller "thiele & fendel".
Hi, i have now a Daikin HomeHub, this part replaces the DCOM and can used with Modbus RTU "or" Modbus TCP. So there i no need for a additional RS485 to ETH gateway. I have also tryed a waveshare product, but this product has the same limitation like all cheap chinese gateways. It will discard TCP payloads with more than one Modbus TCP part inside...
@StefanR71
I'm from France, I have ALTHERMA2 (CB version as stated above) and I'm ready to order the DCOM-LT-IO to communicate over Modbus from HA.
What "limitations" have you encountered with the cheap RTU to TCP gateways ?
Discarding TCP payloads => what is the impact in terms of controlling the unit ?
What gateway do you recommend if the limitation is an issue ?
Thanks.
Hi, i have now a Daikin HomeHub, this part replaces the DCOM and can used with Modbus RTU "or" Modbus TCP. So there i no need for a additional RS485 to ETH gateway. I have also tryed a waveshare product, but this product has the same limitation like all cheap chinese gateways. It will discard TCP payloads with more than one Modbus TCP part inside...
@StefanR71
I'm from France, I have ALTHERMA2 (CB version as stated above) and I'm ready to order the DCOM-LT-IO to communicate over Modbus from HA.
What "limitations" have you encountered with the cheap RTU to TCP gateways ?
Discarding TCP payloads => what is the impact in terms of controlling the unit ?
What gateway do you recommend if the limitation is an issue ?
Thanks.
If you have troubles with cheap Chinese Modbus RTU -> TCP gateways, you can try my own Modbus RTU ⇒ Modbus TCP/UDP Gateway ;-)
Here is a tutorial and a firmware for an Arduino-based gateway. Quite reliable, works in my house for years. For your information: in my gateway, payloads are stored in a buffer, they are not discarded. Of course, if you you bombard the gateway with very frequent requests and you manage to fill the buffer, then the TCP request is discarded :-) Moreover, you can see the utilization of the buffer in the Web UI, you can also see counter for these "gateway overloaded" errors in webUI.
In my view you have 2 possible ways:
Don't order the DCOM-LT-IO, use the HomeHub: https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/product.html/EKRHH.html
When your heatpump isn't compatibe with the HomeHub, then you need to use the other part and use a gateway to modbus TCP.
The problem is the following with the gateways:
When you request the content of the registers 1,2,3 and 6 then this request will be send in 2 parts: request 3 registers starting at 1 request 1 register starting at 6
But for the second request we don't get an answer.
A workaround is to query only registers that are together at a time. Or only single registers...
I would of liked to go for the EKRHH but it is only compatible with the Altherma "3" and I have the Gen 2.
On what controls will I be limited since I yet did not go in details and do not know what the impact will be ? What function will work or not work ?
Whats crazy is that DAIKIN give the DCOM-LT compatible with the unit.
But for the second request we don't get an answer.
Yeah, seems that cheap Chinese Modbus gateways do not have a buffer at all. My Modbus gateway stores 10 requests in a buffer.
https://github.com/budulinek/arduino-modbus-rtu-tcp-gateway
Feel free to give it a try. I do not have DCOM-LT-IO myself, but I have tested my Modbus gateway extensively.
@StefanR71 I'm thinkging Unless you where using the DCOM-LT with a Gen 3 and its not fully compatible with the Gen 3.....
I received this compatiblity list from Daikin : Altherma 3 H HT split (EPRA-D) Altherma 3 R32 R Split (ERLA-D) Altherma 3 Monobloc (ED(B)LA-D) Alttherma 3 WS (EGSHA-D)
It mentions not compatible with : Altherma 3 R split (ERGA-E).
But for Gen2 it is compatible : ERLQ-C
Maybe the conclusion is that : For GEN 2 => Use the DCOM-LT (MB or IO) For GEN 3 => Use the HomeHub
But for the second request we don't get an answer.
Yeah, seems that cheap Chinese Modbus gateways do not have a buffer at all. My Modbus gateway stores 10 requests in a buffer.
https://github.com/budulinek/arduino-modbus-rtu-tcp-gateway
Feel free to give it a try. I do not have DCOM-LT-IO myself, but I have tested my Modbus gateway extensively.
Do you mean it's better to use arduino without a commercial modbus gateway ?
But for the second request we don't get an answer.
Yeah, seems that cheap Chinese Modbus gateways do not have a buffer at all. My Modbus gateway stores 10 requests in a buffer. https://github.com/budulinek/arduino-modbus-rtu-tcp-gateway Feel free to give it a try. I do not have DCOM-LT-IO myself, but I have tested my Modbus gateway extensively.
Do you mean it's better to use arduino without a commercial modbus gateway ?
Sure, this is what I mean. I am quite confident in my gateway - it is better than these Chinese commercial gateways.
Ok, so in that case, with the GEN2 (I have the same as you, EHVX11S26CB9W (CB version) if I go for DCOM-LT-MB + your gateway all will work 100% with the HVAC ?
Maybe the conclusion is that : For GEN 2 => Use the DCOM-LT (MB or IO) For GEN 3 => Use the HomeHub
Okay, then the DCOM-LT, and making a own gateway is the best choice.
I used a ESP32 to query the values via Modbus and store them in a local MQTT server on the same ESP32. This MQTT i query from my monitoring. I made also some MQTT topics to set the DHT temperature or switch the device on or off...
@StefanR71 @budulinek
Did you guys see this solution ? https://raomin.github.io/ESPAltherma/
Yes but it isn't possible so set values, it is only monitoring.
@StefanR71 I'm thinkging Unless you where using the DCOM-LT with a Gen 3 and its not fully compatible with the Gen 3.....
I received this compatiblity list from Daikin : Altherma 3 H HT split (EPRA-D) Altherma 3 R32 R Split (ERLA-D) Altherma 3 Monobloc (ED(B)LA-D) Alttherma 3 WS (EGSHA-D)
It mentions not compatible with : Altherma 3 R split (ERGA-E).
But for Gen2 it is compatible : ERLQ-C
Maybe the conclusion is that : For GEN 2 => Use the DCOM-LT (MB or IO) For GEN 3 => Use the HomeHub
I use at the moment for GEN3 DCOM-LT I will use in the future Homehub (already ordered) because there are more Registers for better controlling the heatpump especially if you have photovoltaic
OK, so I'm ordering the DCOM-LT. The price is nearly the same for the DCOM-LT/IO one. Maybe its wiser to go with this one ?
@StefanR71 @budulinek
Did you guys see this solution ? https://raomin.github.io/ESPAltherma/
Yes, I know about it (see Comparison with other solutions ).
It is a good project, well maintained. But it uses serial port of Altherma (and not the P1P2 bus), which means it can not control Altherma. Only in a very limited way (on/off through external relay).
Thank you ! Great page. Is it easy enough to integrate yours in HA or only Loxone for now ?
Thank you ! Great page. Is it easy enough to integrate yours in HA or only Loxone for now ?
Arduino Altherma Controller integrates easily only with Loxone. Node-RED integration also possible but more difficult. Direct integration to HA not possible.
Modbus RTU -> TCP Gateway complies with Modbus protocol specifications. Therefore, if you choose DCOM-LT + my Modbus RTU -> TCP Gateway, it should easily integrate with any Modbus TCP master (Loxone, HA, Node-RED, etc. etc.).
OK, clear now. In that case I will need to setup the sensors and program them with MODBUS commands. No one yet did a template to collect the entities.
Since you are an expert, could you give me an example if I want to run a command from HA to stop the HVAC for example ?
From there I might be able to build a complete template.
I know quite a bit about Modbus protocol as such.
But I have no experience with HA. Please check this HA Modbus tutorial. First you configure "connection" (TCP connection to the gateway) and then "entities" (incl. sensors, target temperature, HVAC mode etc.).
You also need to know modbus register address you want to write to (or read from). You get them from DCOM-LT reference manual.
Since you are an expert, could you give me an example if I want to run a command from HA to stop the HVAC for example ?
And, if you build my Modbus RTU -> TCP gateway, you can also run modbus requests (commands) directly from its web interface for testing purposes. Modbus protocol is actually quite simnple. Assuming you have slave ID 0x01, according to DCOM-LT/MB manual, you can turn off HVAC ("Space Heating/Cooling") by this command:
01 06 00 04 00 00
Thank you ! I will now order the parts to make your gateway. All of this is exciting.
For the modbus configuration actually it seems quite easy. Here you can see a setup on LG but the principle is the same : https://youtu.be/Xuj2YFZ5zME?si=MeQGxm9zRHsmm6ln
Really cool and can't wait to have it ; I have my solar inverter already running on HA with batteries and this winter will be able to automate and control the ALTHERMA HP based on solar and battery charging based on tarif.
This is much more powerful than integrated smart grid (SG) as it does not manage batteries : sometimes you want the excess to charge the batteries for example.
Last thing and not least in HA you can define strategies based on next day solar forecast, which makes it even more awesome. One I deeply recomment is SOLCAST https://solcast.com/ (free you have 10 API requests per day). I found it much more accurate than the one embedded in HA.
@budulinek
I read your instructions for the arduino. I'm new to Arduino. When it says "Download and flash my pre-compiled firmware"; do I need to configure before the Ethernet shield or all is included in your firmware, ready-to-go once flashed ? To flash it, I guess its from IDE ?
thanks,
@budulinek
I read your instructions for the arduino. I'm new to Arduino. When it says "Download and flash my pre-compiled firmware"; do I need to configure before the Ethernet shield or all is included in your firmware, ready-to-go once flashed ? To flash it, I guess its from IDE ?
thanks,
I think it is better to compile your own firmware. Download github repo, open arduino-modbus-rtu-tcp-gateway.ino in Arduino IDE. In Arduino IDE, open library manager and install "CircularBuffer" and "StreamLib" libraries. Connect Arduino, select board and port. Then hit Ctrl+U (comnpile and upload). No need to configure ethernet shield, default settings will apply and your Arduino should be available on 192.168.1.254
Thank you for the info. I will use this KKSB case to have a complete module. https://kksb-cases.com/cdn/shop/products/DSC02079_800x544.jpg?v=1669881064 TTL card can go inside also. What's great is that the case has a DIN rail adapter. So you can put side by side on the rail, the DCOM-LT and your module. I saw on the drawing it's better to use a direct 5V power supply and not use the USB or existing DC.
For those interested,
The solution DCOM + Modbus Gateway is about the same cost as the Home Hub (EKRHH).
For Altherma 2 we have no other option as EKRHH is not compatible, so it's good news :
This is buying on stock in EU ; you can get it cheaper from Aliexpress.
In my view you have 2 possible ways:
Don't order the DCOM-LT-IO, use the HomeHub: https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/product.html/EKRHH.html
When your heatpump isn't compatibe with the HomeHub, then you need to use the other part and use a gateway to modbus TCP.
The problem is the following with the gateways:
When you request the content of the registers 1,2,3 and 6 then this request will be send in 2 parts: request 3 registers starting at 1 request 1 register starting at 6
But for the second request we don't get an answer.
A workaround is to query only registers that are together at a time. Or only single registers...
@StefanR71 Hi, I decided to do my project on the Arduino custom gateway, but are you sure this module from Waveshare cannot handle more than one Modbus TCP part inside ? https://www.welectron.com/Waveshare-RS232-485-TO-ETH. The product is more expensive than the cheaper 23273 https://eu.robotshop.com/fr/products/industrial-serial-server-rs485-to-rj45-ethernet-tcp-ip-to-serial-rail-mount-poe
@budulinek I read your instructions for the arduino. I'm new to Arduino. When it says "Download and flash my pre-compiled firmware"; do I need to configure before the Ethernet shield or all is included in your firmware, ready-to-go once flashed ? To flash it, I guess its from IDE ? thanks,
I think it is better to compile your own firmware. Download github repo, open arduino-modbus-rtu-tcp-gateway.ino in Arduino IDE. In Arduino IDE, open library manager and install "CircularBuffer" and "StreamLib" libraries. Connect Arduino, select board and port. Then hit Ctrl+U (comnpile and upload). No need to configure ethernet shield, default settings will apply and your Arduino should be available on 192.168.1.254
Got the Arduino working ; really straightforward and simple !
Since my network is on 192.168.0.X I had to connect it to a laptop with a direct IP to change the IP through the webinterface.
For next time, eg if I have to update one day, is their a way to change the default IP in the ino files ?
Thanks again Mate !
@StefanR71 Hi, I decided to do my project on the Arduino custom gateway, but are you sure this module from Waveshare cannot handle more than one Modbus TCP part inside ? https://www.welectron.com/Waveshare-RS232-485-TO-ETH. The product is more expensive than the cheaper 23273 https://eu.robotshop.com/fr/products/industrial-serial-server-rs485-to-rj45-ethernet-tcp-ip-to-serial-rail-mount-poe
The last one i have, i also tryed one from USR IOT and contacted the support, all have the same problem...
Just to share the results with Budulinek's Mdbus TCP gateway. Works great, amazing solution! Attached picture of the hardware with the KKSB case (TTL converter fits inside no problem). Bottom right, you can see the customized (direct 5V power supply jack) - not using the jack on the Arduino.
@budulinek One thing you should mention on your gateway's page is to highlight this risk that some TTL adapter manufacturers invert TX and RX ! I lost 3h of investigation because of this !! My card is DSD TECH SH-U12 https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B07B667STP?ref=ppx_pop_mob_ap_share
@adicorra thanks for the feedback! I am always happy to hear that it works :-)
@budulinek You mention in your ReadMe
However I found the following two products. Would these solve this problem?
https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/RTD-W.html - For use with Altherma 3 HT models I believe https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/products/RTD-LT-CA.html - For use with Altherma 3 LT models I believe
See this discussion https://community.openhab.org/t/how-to-integrate-daikin-altherma-lt-heat-pump/16488/ and in particular this post https://community.openhab.org/t/how-to-integrate-daikin-altherma-lt-heat-pump/16488/17