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BIP-1: Daily PVP #1

Open SotaTek-AnNguyen opened 2 years ago

SotaTek-AnNguyen commented 2 years ago

Abstract

One element that was missing in the Bunicorn Game and many other P2E games is the competitive element between player vs. player. This missing factor attracts only the ones that play for profit instead of winning in the actual gameplay while it is the main revenue stream of traditional games. Bunicorn's PvP Arena will be our next attempt to fill in the missing piece. We will also share how we shape the future of the Bunicorn Metaverse with the creation of Buniland NFTs and change the way players and the platform owner earns revenue.

As the first step towards building the Buniland metaverse, we will start building some places in the Buniland that correspond to different features of the game. The PvP Arena are buildings in the Buniland to host the fights between player vs player and will be able to generate revenue from the fights. The first PvP mode is Daily PvP. Below is a draft of how it’s going to be implemented.

Goals

Specifications

New terminologies

Pair & Tier

Team

Match-making

Ranking PVP modes

Duel challenge

Spar

After the daily PvP ranking is introduced, we will start working on other types of PvP such as fighting PvP as a team/guild or directly challenging someone and bet for the result as below:

Honor point

Rankings

Arena NFT

Battle & Gameplay

Unlike the PvE mode, this new feature uses a more complicated method that takes into account Bunicorn attributes, Trainers, items,... The ultimate goal is to have a fair and competitive battle where no one has absolute power to constantly rule the Arena. In the first version, the Trainers are at the same level on each tier, so the battle result almost only depends on the Bunicorn.

Attributes

Auras

Spells

Equipments

Battle

Battle action phase

Bunicorn's move

Spell setup

Hyeongsun commented 2 years ago

First of all, I cannot understand the arena NFT for 1st per tier system. Why do you put the abnormal reward? If then, Who wanna upgrade their tier?? everyone will try to get lower tier.

Second things, What the mean of The defeated team’s Honor will be reset to zero? One defeat means I can lose all of chance to dungeon and reward baseline?? That indicates 1st team only get the reward from pvp.

You do not need to make the complicate rules of pvp system, just give high rewards if they have enough strong power.

SotaTek-AnNguyen commented 2 years ago

hi @Hyeongsun , thanks for your questions. Let me elaborate them.

First of all, I cannot understand the arena NFT for 1st per tier system. Why do you put the abnormal reward? If then, Who wanna upgrade their tier?? everyone will try to get lower tier.

The low tiers have a lot more players than the high ones, so the competitiveness is actually more intense. Plus the high tiers got more shares & rewards, so people will be encouraged to climb rank on the high tiers.

Second things, What the mean of The defeated team’s Honor will be reset to zero? One defeat means I can lose all of chance to dungeon and reward baseline?? That indicates 1st team only get the reward from pvp.

The honor point is just the bonus. This means:

You do not need to make the complicate rules of pvp system, just give high rewards if they have enough strong power.

Thank you for the opinion, this is actually done in PVE system. For PVP, we want to introduce a system that players can really play and enjoy the game, and consume the items which are produced by PVE and dungeons.

Hope it answers your concerns.

sang1225 commented 2 years ago

I am also against "The defeated team’s Honor will be reset to zero". This is so futile that it lowers motivation and makes Honor Points to be considered meaningless. I hope it can be used as a more valuable and motivating function. Thank you.

October89Falls commented 2 years ago

I am also against "The defeated team’s Honor will be reset to zero". This is so futile that it lowers motivation and makes Honor Points to be considered meaningless. I hope it can be used as a more valuable and motivating function. Thank you.

I agree, maybe its good if they deduct only 5 points and not zero. Having a zero rule is a bit scary to some players, they will become hesitant to participate. Especially if they don't trust their own team.

October89Falls commented 2 years ago

I'm a bit confuse about the "unit of time or ticks" and how agility affects it, kindly explained it in a more simple way?

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

I agree, maybe its good if they deduct only 5 points and not zero. Having a zero rule is a bit scary to some players, they will become hesitant to participate. Especially if they don't trust their own team.

If you don't participate, you have no honor. But you can try and get some of them for free, so why do you hesitate? Please keep in mind honor is just bonus point, zero-honor doesn't mean a penalty to players.

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

I'm a bit confuse about the "unit of time or ticks" and how agility affects it, kindly explained it in a more simple way?

You can imagine tick is second. The agility means number of moves your bunicorn can perform in 1,000,000 seconds (this number can be adjusted later). For example we have a scenario:

Hope that example is clear enough.

burbuni-whisky commented 2 years ago

I don't understand the phrase below. Would you be more specific? "The selected team and pair of the opponent is determined randomly. Thus, if a team has 4 pairs in 4 elements, it would be difficult to have elemental advantages for the one who starts the fight."

SotaTek-AnNguyen commented 2 years ago

I don't understand the phrase below. Would you be more specific? "The selected team and pair of the opponent is determined randomly. Thus, if a team has 4 pairs in 4 elements, it would be difficult to have elemental advantages for the one who starts the fight."

Let's say you have ELO 2000, then when you seek an opponent for a pvp match, the system will choose through the steps:

This random match-making system will prevent players from selecting the weak opponent for a sure-win match. Duel challenge is a special mode that help you specify a particular player to battle, but you can only use it with a higher rank opponent.

trivia218 commented 2 years ago

Is there a plan to integrate wagering/betting into the PVP system? Not just the internal betting between both parties but where outsiders or bystanders can also bet on their match.

MIN4447 commented 2 years ago

Being able to make up to four pairs means that if you play pvp in one pair, how do you fight when you meet two to four pairs of teams? How many times do you fight in optimal conditions?

MIN4447 commented 2 years ago

I wish this system would be added. In pvp ranking mode, when you fight a higher ranker than yourself, you can randomly get 1.3 to 2 times the burr by walking the burr.

The reward may be burr and scroll.

If you lose, the betting burr will disappear.

What's important here is that we need a betting system. Don't forget that bnx has grown into a betting system and honest operation.

gammaJPG commented 2 years ago

First of all, i think this gameplay can work well, it looks complex enough to add some depth to the strategies required by each player, while simple enough so that anybody can understand it once they try it out for a bit.

However, while the competitive nature of players can make them do some irrational decisions, most of the time the players will factor the expected returns or rewards while making an investment in order to be more competitive. As such, i think it's important to evaluate how to give proper value and incentives to the players so that they are willing to spend on this new feature. Overall, I think arena pvp should be THE most rewarding event on the bunicorn universe. As such, i think once Hunters Inc "breeding" system comes to play, its revenue should be shared with the arena, and not made into a "company". Breeding will be the main source of income FROM the players to the game, but to give it value, you need to ensure that this income is going back to the players. Land owners and other type of passive income investors revenue should come from generating materials on their lands, fees from crafting equipments on the foundry, spells and all kind of items that will aid in the arena. This places active investors (the players) in the primary role, where there are higher risks and higher rewards to be made, while passive investors (land owners) have an auxiliary role, where they get a more fixed type of income.

Below I state some rough ideas that I believe could improve the current reward system to make it more enticing, while forcing people to be active and willing to spend resources in order to increase their chances at getting rewards:

1- In this scenario, i think the rewards being given only to the top 1 player of each tier makes it so that a lot of people, restricted by their budget, will opt to not participate in the pvp. I suggest to consider reducing the amount of tiers (for example, a lvl 50 trainer with a 1 or 2 star doesn’t make much sense), but increasing the number of winners per tier. I also suggest to make this number of winners be variable. For example, at the end of the day, a random number between 30 and 50 is chosen, so that the top 30-50 players in each tier are rewarded with part of the arena's revenue. Since the players will not know the exact rankings that are being rewarded, they will need to make decisions and take risks if they want to increase their chances of being chosen, which will lead to more people opting to burn BUR.

2- Secondly, the fact that people can burn BUR to challenge a higher ranking player, and take their spot, doesn't sound too appealing. With these, anybody can simply watch people struggling to climb the ladder and then go and challenge a higher ranking minutes away from the daily ranking closing. Some mechanism that takes into account the amount of battles won, the enemies rankings or the amount of time the player is able to stay in a certain rank could be used to incentivice people to actively take part in the pvp feature and give the more active players a higher chance to get rewards. Also, even if you burn BUR, you should only be allowed to challenge someone that's not too far away from you on the ranking, that way you can't just jump out of nowhere to the top 10.

3- Finally, i think the honor system could be made with a similar mechanism stated above, so that people can only earn honor and not lose it. It could be given only in battles that involve BUR (or at least be higher in these). While honor can't be lost by losing, the factor by which honor affects rewards and dungeons could be relative to the mean of the honor between all the players, so that while you can't lose honor, your bonus becomes smaller if you don't fight to get more (other alternative would be to make it so you need to get at least 1 win every x amount of time in order to keep your honor). This way, honor acts as an incentive for people that can't get on the rankings to still participate and even use some BUR in the fights.

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

Is there a plan to integrate wagering/betting into the PVP system? Not just the internal betting between both parties but where outsiders or bystanders can also bet on their match.

Yes. There was a plan for everyone to bet on the spar show matches like that, and also bet on the winner of the tournament.

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

Being able to make up to four pairs means that if you play pvp in one pair, how do you fight when you meet two to four pairs of teams? How many times do you fight in optimal conditions?

Even your opponent has 4 pairs, you'll still fight with other 1 pair only, which will be selected randomly. If your team have only 1 pair, for example Fire trainer + bunicorn, another player can abuse by always using Water pair to play against you and take advantage. That's why you may want to setup other pairs with different element.

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

I wish this system would be added. In pvp ranking mode, when you fight a higher ranker than yourself, you can randomly get 1.3 to 2 times the burr by walking the burr.

The reward may be burr and scroll.

If you lose, the betting burr will disappear.

What's important here is that we need a betting system. Don't forget that bnx has grown into a betting system and honest operation.

Thank you, we'll consider this and announce the rule in the upcoming updates.

Chubby-Chocobo commented 2 years ago

Overall, I think arena pvp should be THE most rewarding event on the bunicorn universe. As such, i think once Hunters Inc "breeding" system comes to play, its revenue should be shared with the arena, and not made into a "company". Breeding will be the main source of income FROM the players to the game, but to give it value, you need to ensure that this income is going back to the players. Land owners and other type of passive income investors revenue should come from generating materials on their lands, fees from crafting equipments on the foundry, spells and all kind of items that will aid in the arena. This places active investors (the players) in the primary role, where there are higher risks and higher rewards to be made, while passive investors (land owners) have an auxiliary role, where they get a more fixed type of income.

We surely will let the income go back to the players. But sharing Hunters Inc's revenue with pvp arena is still under consideration. We have plan for a lot of other roles in Buni universe, and revenue from Hunter Inc should go to its owners/stakeholders, that's more natural - like the example of land owner you mentioned.

1- In this scenario, i think the rewards being given only to the top 1 player of each tier makes it so that a lot of people, restricted by their budget, will opt to not participate in the pvp. I suggest to consider reducing the amount of tiers (for example, a lvl 50 trainer with a 1 or 2 star doesn’t make much sense), but increasing the number of winners per tier. I also suggest to make this number of winners be variable. For example, at the end of the day, a random number between 30 and 50 is chosen, so that the top 30-50 players in each tier are rewarded with part of the arena's revenue. Since the players will not know the exact rankings that are being rewarded, they will need to make decisions and take risks if they want to increase their chances of being chosen, which will lead to more people opting to burn BUR.

This is daily pvp, and there's no entrance fee so budget is not the problem. We'll consider your suggestion for reward system of PVP Tournament, which is proposed in #2

2- Secondly, the fact that people can burn BUR to challenge a higher ranking player, and take their spot, doesn't sound too appealing. With these, anybody can simply watch people struggling to climb the ladder and then go and challenge a higher ranking minutes away from the daily ranking closing. Some mechanism that takes into account the amount of battles won, the enemies rankings or the amount of time the player is able to stay in a certain rank could be used to incentivice people to actively take part in the pvp feature and give the more active players a higher chance to get rewards. Also, even if you burn BUR, you should only be allowed to challenge someone that's not too far away from you on the ranking, that way you can't just jump out of nowhere to the top 10.

We use the Chess' ELO system, it should be efficient enough to reflect the actual performance of players. Challenge mode is just an extra mode to increase the difficulty of keeping the 1st position. Totally agree with you should only be allowed to challenge someone that's not too far away from you on the ranking, this is exact thing we'll do.

3- Finally, i think the honor system could be made with a similar mechanism stated above, so that people can only earn honor and not lose it. It could be given only in battles that involve BUR (or at least be higher in these). While honor can't be lost by losing, the factor by which honor affects rewards and dungeons could be relative to the mean of the honor between all the players, so that while you can't lose honor, your bonus becomes smaller if you don't fight to get more (other alternative would be to make it so you need to get at least 1 win every x amount of time in order to keep your honor). This way, honor acts as an incentive for people that can't get on the rankings to still participate and even use some BUR in the fights.

If honor always increases for all people, but the bonus is calculated relatively to the sum across all players, the scenario like this will happens:

I feel people are too sensitive with the lost word. Honor is just a bonus you can get in a total free playing mode (daily pvp). If you pay attention and have a strategy, you can get the bonus, otherwise there's no harm. Why are you always afraid of losing honor point?

Btw, we'll bring all of these ideas to the team and discuss more carefully. Thank you for very supportive & constructive comment @gammaJPG

gammaJPG commented 2 years ago

This is daily pvp, and there's no entrance fee so budget is not the problem.

On this regard, when i say they are restricted by budget, i mean they don't have enough to upgrade their team to be competitive enough to even have a chance. If they don't have a chance to be top 1, and that's the only way they get rewards from the arena, then they will just not play, even if the entrance is free. If only the 10 people per rank that might have a chance to get that rank 1 spot are playing, then there's not much point to make this arena feature on the first place, which goes to my second point, the honor system:

If honor always increases for all people, but the bonus is calculated relatively to the sum across all players, the scenario like this will happens:

  • today I have 100 honor point, which is equal to average, and I get 10% bonus reward in PVE
  • tomorrow I have 200 honor point, but other players got 500 points in average, then my bonus is only 5%
  • next week I have 1000 honor point, while the average is 10000 now, my bonus is 1% IMHO it doesn't make sense.

I feel people are too sensitive with the lost word. Honor is just a bonus you can get in a total free playing mode (daily pvp). If you pay attention and have a strategy, you can get the bonus, otherwise there's no harm. Why are you always afraid of losing honor point?

Yes, there is no harm in losing something that only acts as a bonus, but if the chances of losing it are too high, then the bonus is too weak to be a motivational factor for people to play the arena. In my opinion, the honor system, as you proposed it, doesn't change anything, so it doens't matter whether it's implemented or not. Instead, i'm trying to envision honor as something that people try to constantly gain, in order to increase their potential gains. That way, even if the people can't get direct rewards from the arena, they will get indirect rewards from increased pve and dungeon rewards.

I forgot to mention that for the honor relative to the mean system to work, honor would need to be reset every x amount of time (every week maybe), otherwise new players will be too left behind. That said, im not sure why you say it doesn't make sense, it simply means that people that are more active and do pvp are more likely to get a bigger bonus, this incentivices people to play the pvp frequently and to improve to get more wins. It doesn't need to work this way though, but what's important is that there is at least 1 kind of reward for the people that play arena and perform good, otherwise a lot of the items such as auras/skills/equipment will lose their value and they will not have a relevant place in the economy.

Regarding Hunter Inc, I might have made a mistake. I was thinking of new players getting their bunis there, when in fact only existing players can get bunis from it, and then they can sell them on the marketplace. So the most important and stable source of income is not Hunter Inc, but the Marketplace . So Hunter Inc could still be made into players ownership, as long as the marketplace remains public (although there could be some interesting interactions, like treasury bonds the players can purchase).