50 States buttonmen has some bad recipes

[ManvilleFog]

I know that at least Maryland is busted. I think the file was truncated somewhere between copying from an email or pm and copying it to a CD for backup. But even after changing the . . . at the end of Maryland to something I think would pass Jenkins it failed. There's probably more than one recipe with problems. Heh - I just spotted one: Alabama should have an (S) instead of an S. But even with my blunders in converting this to the right format, I can't really be sure that Maryland isn't the only button recipe that was found unscathed. Hopefully someone has a copy of Kaufman's original 50 States buttonmen to check this against.

Thanks for the help.

---

Button Name	Recipe
'Alabama'	'D(6) ^(10) o(14) S (X)'
'Alaska'	'd(6) s(20) s(30) w(30) (T)'
'Arizona'	'k(7) g(9) (12) F(15) (X)'
'Arkansas'	'p(4) H(9) w(12) h(20) (V)'
'California'	'@(10) @(20) $p(20) $q(12) (Y)? (Z)'
'Colorado'	'(4) (6) z(14) (U)? (U)?'
'Connecticut'	'H(4) v(11) h(20) (4/20)? (R)'
'Delaware'	'(1) (4) h(6) f(8) (T)'
'Florida'	'g(6) F(10) p(12) (U) r(4) r(6) hr(12) @whr(20)'
'Georgia(US)'	'oz(10) (4/20) B(X) B(X) q(X)'
'Hawaii'	'n(4) m(5) k(8)F(13) d(Y)'
'Idaho'	'B(4) s(6) (8) (Y) (Y)'
'Illinois'	'(10/20) G(12) (8,8) (R) rsd(4) rsd(6)'
'Indiana'	'(4) (8) (12) z(20) (W)'
'Iowa'	'n^(6) f(8) D(9) (11) k(T)'
'Kansas'	'(9) c(9) F(9) Gz(9) t(9)'
'Kentucky'	'z(5) (1/4) (9/8) (20) (R)'
'Louisiana'	'p(2) @(6) G(12) o(12) (X)'
'Maine'	'f(4) g(6) s(6) (V) (X)'
'Maryland'	'g(4) m(8) o(10) (W) (X) +@(8) ...'
'Massachusetts'	'f(6) k(8) o(10) (X) (Y)'
'Michigan'	'(8) s(9) p(10) (Z)! (2)(3) +(6)'
'Minnesota'	'o(6) o(6) (7,7) s(20) (X)'
'Mississippi'	'@(4) H(6) (8) w(13) (W)'
'Missouri'	'f(4) (10) v(10) H(8,12) (Z)'
'Montana'	'B(4) H(8) (12) (S) z(Z)'
'Nebraska'	'(11) h(U) (S) k(R) fB(11)'
'Nevada'	'H(3) C (21) c(36) %(V)'
'New Hampshire'	'f(4) os(6) Gh(9) (V) (W)?'
'New Jersey'	'c(4) B(15) z(18) p(20) s(S)'
'New Mexico'	'^(4) (8) %(10) s(12) (X)?'
'New York'	'(12) p(16) z(30) o(X)? rq(6) r(8)'
'North Carolina'	'pF(10) o(10) (V)! gt(V) h(V)'
'North Dakota'	'(4,4) (8) s(12) n(12) (W)'
'Ohio'	'H(6) F(7) p(8) (X)? (X)'
'Oklahoma'	'f(6) f(10) f(12) f(X)'
'Oregon'	'z(6) (12) u(R) u(W) u(X)'
'Pennsylvania'	'$f(2) $s(6) %(4) (12) t(20) (Y)?'
'Rhode Island'	'(4) (4) d(6) d(10) (R)'
'South Carolina'	'(6) (9) fB(10) G(12) (X)'
'South Dakota'	'(1) (3) (16) (26) @o(Z)'
'Tennessee'	'@(1/5) %(6) F(8) (5/25) rpm(3,3) rpm(4,5)'
'Texas'	'^(10) (10,10) (30) `(8) r(6) r(8) r(10) r(12)'
'Utah'	'(6) (8) w(12) H(S) (X,X)'
'Virginia'	'(4) oBs(8) Fp(12) (20) (W)'
'Vermont'	'(4) G(6) os(8) g(10) (V)'
'Washington'	'n(4) z(6) (7) F(13) mso(S)'
'West Virginia'	'q(Y) w(X) B(Y) o(X) Bowq(Z,Z)?'
'Wisconsin'	'co(W) co(W) cow(S) cow(S) cow(S)'
'Wyoming'	'(4) z(12) kp(20) n(20) (S)'

[ManvilleFog]

I found two of my blunders. In addition to S lacking in parenthesis in Alabama, C was lacking them in Nevada.

I solved the problem with Maryland causing test errors by using parenthesis around each dot at the end. It's still an invalid recipe, but at least it can be loaded.

California & Pennsylvania also have invalid recipes. $ is the code for thief dice here, but did not have any meaning on the old beta site where these recipes were being tested. I'm changing them to a U for now, which has no meaning here - so these won't work but at least they won't be confused with thief whenever those are implemented. I expect this sets problems will probably be resolved before that happens, but better safe . . .

[ManvilleFog]

Fixes and Changes:

Button Name	Recipe
'Alabama'	'D(6) ^(10) o(14) (S) (X)'
'Maryland'	'g(4) m(8) o(10) (W) (X) +@(8) (.) (.) (.)'
'Nevada'	'H(3) (C) (21) c(36) %(V)'
'California'	'@(10) @(20) Up(20) Uq(12) (Y)? (Z)'
'Pennsylvania'	'Uf(2) Us(6) %(4) (12) t(20) (Y)?'

[ManvilleFog]

Note: it's possible the dollar signs and ellipses might not be glitches, but Kaufman's way of noting he considered the three recipes unfinished. For example, Fp in North Carolina represents the tobacco industry (poison that you burn), so he might have wanted a similar qualifier for whatever poison he was referring to in California, and wasn't sure what to add to it.

Anyhow, if Kaufman isn't available to verify the recipes, maybe we can finish them for him. (And what is radioactive about PA?)

[blackshadowshade]

Fog, you might want to put out a message on the forum, to see if someone is still in touch with kaufman.

[eksortso]

Well, Pennsylvania has Three Mile Island, that's the radioactive part.

-- Dave Ostroske On Oct 8, 2014 7:01 AM, "ManvilleFog" notifications@github.com wrote:

Note: it's possible the dollar signs and ellipses might not be glitches, but Kaufman's way of noting he considered the three recipes unfinished. For example, Fp in North Carolina represents the tobacco industry (poison that you burn), so he might have wanted a similar qualifier for whatever poison he was referring to in California, and wasn't sure what to add to it.

Anyhow, if Kaufman isn't available to verify the recipes, maybe we can finish them for him. (And what is radioactive about PA?)

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub https://github.com/buttonmen-dev/buttonmen/issues/1351#issuecomment-58341599 .

[irilyth]

kaufman is active on the main site; challenge him to a game? :^)

[ManvilleFog]

kaufman accepted the challenge, but hasn't responded to my game chat. I decided to leave a post on the forum discussion about button set ideas. Speaking of which (and I should probably start a new topic) could we playtest new button set ideas on the dev site, or wait until there is something similar to the old beta site where people can enter their own recipes and try them.

[ManvilleFog]

Oh. I got his email from his profile page. I'll try getting in touch with him that way. :)

[irilyth]

Ticket #344 talks about being able to create and test your own recipes.

[ManvilleFog]

Huzzah! Kaufman got back to me. The $ were a guess at how the rumored (at the time) Plazma dice would be coded. And he's pretty sure that MD is complete without the ellipses, so I can just get rid of them.

[ManvilleFog]

Button Name	Recipe
'Maryland'	'g(4) m(8) o(10) (W) (X) +@(8)'
'California'	'@(10) @(20) {p,q}(20/12) (Y)? (Z)'
'Pennsylvania'	'{f,s}(2/6) %(4) (12) t(20) (Y)?'

OK, it seems CA and PA still need work because Plasma allows a choice between die-types and not sizes. Maybe split the difference and have CA with {p,q}16 and PA with {f,s}4.

[irilyth]

Hmm, can't you have a die that is both Plasma and Option? Or was that idea that you can get either a p20 or q12, but not a p12 or q20? (in CA's case)

[ManvilleFog]

The second one. Plasma and Options should work together, but it gives four choices instead of just two.

[irilyth]

Yeah, sorry, my question wasn't clear there. Trying again, I think I have two questions:

(1) If I saw a Plasma Option die, like {p,q}(20/12), I'd assume that it coudl be Poison or Queer, and 20-sided or 12-sided, for four combinations. Is that what you'd assume that would mean in general? (If not, if you wanted a button that worked like that, how would you expect to do it?)

(2) In this case, do you have reason think that the intention with CA was for it to be either p20 or q12, and not the four-way option?

My answers are that I think {p,q}(20/12) should give four options, and I don't think we currently have a way to represent the two-option version, without explanding the definition of one or the other of Plasma or Option (or creating a enw Plasmoption skill or something).

[ManvilleFog]

hehe. Plasmoption. I like it! : D (1) Yes, {p,q}(20/12) would give four options. (2) Yes, because this is based on a misunderstanding of how Plasma would work. From kaufman:

"I threw in some Plasma dice right as the old site was introducing them, and if $ was not the notation for them, that's what we adopted in lieu of something that had not yet been standardized. For instance the $p(20) $q(12) represented a choice between the smog of Southern California and the culture of Northern California."

[jl8e]

Once select/fightball dice are implemented, that should become possible, (It was part of my early design work (containers); don’t know the state of things now.)

[irilyth]

I was thinking about Sideboard (Select, whatever we're calling them) dice as a fix for this, but I think the current theory is that a Sideboard die is a die on your Sideboard, and between rounds, you can bring it into play and make one of your other dice a Sideboard die.

Do we have in mind a way to limit which of your in-play dice you can swap out? Or is the idea that only Sideboard dice can be swapped in and out?

[ManvilleFog]

Kaufman said that after reading feedback on the forum he believes he meant for these to be Select dice rather than Plasma. I've gone over the history of Select dice on other issues and won't repeat it again here except to point out that they were taken off the list of die-types. Perhaps they should be reinstated.

With this in mind, I think I'm going to submit 50 States with PA and CA using the currently unassigned code U for what was intended to be Select dice. I'll comment the intention of the recipe, and make the appropriate changes when we decide what to do about it. I'm also going to change these to have a button special per request to keep these from being playable on the live site until issue #1234 is implemented, again with a comment to make the appropriate changes when the time comes.

[ManvilleFog]

final fix (for now):

Button Name	Recipe
California'	'@(10) @(20) Up(20 Uq(12) (Y)? (Z)'
'Pennsylvania'	'Uf(2) Us(6) %(4) (12) t(20) (Y)?'

[blackshadowshade]

Closing this one for the moment. If there are other issues that I've missed, feel free to reopen the issue.

[TheOrgg]

I can confirm that $ was being used for Select Dice on the old site.