C128 support or version

[bodgit]

I presume it should be possible to do the same video enhancement on a C128? As I understand it, the VIC-IIe chip has 8 additional pins for a total of 48, however they're apparently for the Z80 CPU and the extra keys on a C128.

I'm guessing the modulator is going to be a different part so there might also be some changes needed for everything to line up such as the TRRS jack and mode switch to line up with the holes in the case. I can check this on my C128 unless you have one to hand.

[JDet-74]

That looks very nice ...

Thumbs UP :-)

[c0pperdragon]

I hope it actually works. Design rules check and connectivity check are all OK.

[JDet-74]

I hope it actually works. Design rules check and connectivity check are all OK.

I will test it :-) When my C128 arrives, I will check the new small board on this motherboard. By the way ... here are the pics of the small board in my C128DCR. It looks still pretty.

It has to go with pin headers on the board, cause the ceramic caps (left, behind the DIN connectors) are maybe in the way. But it fits very well. Here pics how it looks like in the metal case.

Next, I will check the VIC-adapter, if there is a possible solution for ONE VIC-adapter which fits in both machines. If all looks fine, I order some prototype PCBs and the parts. What do you think of this USB-Blaster? It should do the job. https://www.waveshare.com/product/fpga-tools/usb-blaster-v2.htm Can you recommend any developer boards? Maybe on the same "waveshare" homepage or any other boards. You infected me with the FPGA virus.

[Icelvlan88]

I’d still love to see RGsB one day :) I also use a mini din 9 for my connector. It works great

On Jan 18, 2021, at 12:38 AM, Kernelpanic notifications@github.com wrote:



I hope it actually works. Design rules check and connectivity check are all OK.

I will test it :-) When my C128 arrives, I will check the new small board on this motherboard. By the way ... here are the pics of the small board in my C128DCR. It looks still pretty. [FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_02]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875395-7aaa3780-5955-11eb-8897-62807f6ee511.jpg [FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_03]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875414-8695f980-5955-11eb-9255-46e7394ea9ad.jpg [FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_04]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875420-8a298080-5955-11eb-8df7-84dc0828f503.jpg [FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_05]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875432-91508e80-5955-11eb-9d44-034c485c8d08.jpg

It has to go with pin headers on the board, cause the ceramic caps (left, behind the DIN connectors) are maybe in the way. But it fits very well. Here pics how it looks like in the metal case.

[FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_01]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875644-1176f400-5956-11eb-8730-5b28e3d9e2cb.jpg [FPGA_smallBoard_C128DCR_07]https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/57826750/104875650-150a7b00-5956-11eb-989d-e65bd6e08d1a.jpg

Next, I will check the VIC-adapter, if there is a possible solution for ONE VIC-adapter who fits in both machines. If all looks fine, I order some prototype PCBs and the parts. What do you think of this USB-Blaster? It should do the job. https://www.waveshare.com/product/fpga-tools/usb-blaster-v2.htm Can you recommend any developer boards? Maybe on the same "waveshare" homepage or any other boards. You infected me with the FPGA virus.

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/issues/4#issuecomment-761993614, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/APCADXPCLYF7TQIPC2JVQF3S2PCMFANCNFSM4HAG6VGQ.

[c0pperdragon]

RGsB (a.k.a. sync-on-green) can directly be used by re-programming the palette. The palette-tuning software already support this.

To easily test if an adapter can fit both variants of the C128, just turn around the cardboard template and try to fit it with the connector on the other side. If this is clear of the capacitor in both cases, I think I will just redesign the adapter myself after all.

[c0pperdragon]

What do you think of this USB-Blaster? It should do the job. https://www.waveshare.com/product/fpga-tools/usb-blaster-v2.htm Can you recommend any developer boards? Maybe on the same "waveshare" homepage or any other boards. You infected me with the FPGA virus.

This USB-Blaster is probably just fine. About an FPGA development board: I happen to have one of these lying around:

https://www.mouser.at/new/terasic-technologies/terasic-cyclone-v-gx-starter-kit/

I initially used it, but then moved on to building my own boards. So I don't have any use for it and I could actually make you a good price. Its also one of the few boards that have HDMI output capabilities built in. Contact me via mail (reinhard.grafl@aon.at) if you are interested.

[Icelvlan88]

Sorry what I meant was RGBs.

On Jan 18, 2021, at 4:31 AM, c0pperdragon notifications@github.com wrote:



What do you think of this USB-Blaster? It should do the job. https://www.waveshare.com/product/fpga-tools/usb-blaster-v2.htm Can you recommend any developer boards? Maybe on the same "waveshare" homepage or any other boards. You infected me with the FPGA virus.

This USB-Blaster is probably just fine. About an FPGA development board: I happen to have one of these lying around:

https://www.mouser.at/new/terasic-technologies/terasic-cyclone-v-gx-starter-kit/

I initially used it, but then moved on to building my own boards. So I don't have any use for it and I could actually make you a good price. Its also one of the few boards that have HDMI output capabilities built in. Contact me via mail (reinhard.grafl@aon.atmailto:reinhard.grafl@aon.at) if you are interested.

— You are receiving this because you commented. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/issues/4#issuecomment-762116055, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/APCADXM3VHTA5OPEUJENBA3S2P5YVANCNFSM4HAG6VGQ.

[c0pperdragon]

@Icelvlan88 please refrain from quoting previous content in your posts if it is not necessary. This just clutters up the page.

For RGBS, you actually have several options:

1. Configure the palette to output RGsB and use the luma signal from the A/V port as sync. This works only with 240p/288p If your monitor does not like having additional sync on the green line, you can even turn this off with the palette tuning software.

2. Configure output to RGsB and de-solder R1 of the FPGA board. Connect a wire to the R1s pad (the one directed towards the FPGA) , add a resistor (100 ohm or something like that) in series and that is your csync.

[Icelvlan88]

is this TTL 5v or 75ohm if I put a 75ohm resistor if I do 2?

[c0pperdragon]

Its more like TTL 3.3v, but this should also work with any TTL input. When you use a 220 ohm resistor you also get voltages that are not dangerous to a 75 ohm input.

The sync inputs of monitors normally can accept a wide range of input voltages and a TTL input can often run with 75ohm sync and also the other way round.

So, if you just use a 220 ohm resistor, you should basically be compatible with everything.

[JDet-74]

@c0pperdragon yesterday your package arrived. Thanks. The FPGA journey can begin ;) The C128 arrived too and that are the results with the small FPGA board. looks not bad - I don't want to be annoying, but if you just could please round the edges, it would fit better. You will see it on the following pictures. WITH the C128 plastic case: The TRRA Audio Jack and the switch are fitting good. If you just could squeeze the width of the board?! Left and right just 0.5mm each. Rounding the edges would be also better. After this modification it will fit perfect, I think.

The VIC adapter situation: I made a test adapter with the cardboard and a 32-Pin socket to play around. If you reposition the 20-pin header to the VIC Pins (PIN-25 to PIN-35) / MOS 8701 clock generator, the adapter board would almost fit in both systems. It is very close, but the clock generator is in the way. A DIP-48 with longer pins should work an solve this Problem. C128 VIC-adapter, header on PIN25-35: C128 DCR VIC-adapter, header on PIN25-35: The ideal position for the C128 DCR is like that (VIC PIN34-44): But this doesn't work in the C128: It's a mess - what's your opinion? A DIP 48 socket with longer pins and ONE solution for both models, or leave the adapter as it is and replacing the cap for the C128 DCR users?
It would be possible to replace this cap with a 100µF tantalum cap like this one. https://www.reichelt.de/tantal-kondensator-rm-5-100-f-6-3v-tantal-100-6-3-p20336.html?&trstct=pol_8&nbc=1

[c0pperdragon]

I think it is best to leave the adapter as it is to work best with the most C128 machines (your DCR is quite rare). Relocating or replacing the capacitor should not be soo difficult. This tantalum capacitor is probably a good choice, but you could use any 100uF capacitor. Replacing those old electrolytics is probably a good idea in any case. Installation should be fairly easy. Just leave the leads long enough so you can offet the body of the capacitor enough to make space for the board.

And I will also try to make the FPGA board a tiny bit smaller and give it rounded corners, too.

[JDet-74]

And I will also try to make the FPGA board a tiny bit smaller and give it rounded corners, too.

Awesome ... if it is done I will order the small FPGA board, the C64-adapter board and the C128-adapter board with a minimum quantity. I have some C64 short boards and the C128 machines where the small FPGA adapter board should fit in. After the PCBs arrived I will solder one PCB each and test it.

[c0pperdragon]

I still have about 13 PCBs for the C128 adapter. I could easily send you 2 in a simple non-tracked envelope for €5 in total...

[c0pperdragon]

The FPGA board is now a little bit smaller than before. Check the gerbers at: https://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/tree/master/smallreplacement

[JDet-74]

The FPGA board is now a little bit smaller than before. Check the gerbers at: https://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/tree/master/smallreplacement

The PCBs and the parts are ordered. If it's all assembled I will post the result.

[Icelvlan88]

With people with the circuit build from 1 year ago, is there a reason to upgrade to latest PCB? Would still think it would be awesome to incorporate a mini din 9, this is what I used instead. I got some some custom cables made for component and they work great.

[c0pperdragon]

The C64 FPGA board has only changed in some details in the last year and is fully software compatible and should also work with the C128 if you can make it fit somehow. This small FPGA board now is not compatible with the long board C64, but directly fits the C128 instead (and the short board C64).

If you prefer mini DIN, you can of course modify my board design to your needs. Should not be too hard in KiCad.

[BuckoA511]

We'd be happy to carry some C128 version in the store along with the C64 version.

I think there would be interest for a C16/+4 version too.

[bodgit]

I think there would be interest for a C16/+4 version too.

The Commodore 16/+4 used a TED chip for graphics instead of a VIC-II so I suspect it would need a different solution.

[djcarlin]

We'd be happy to carry some C128 version in the store along with the C64 version.

And I would be happy to purchase it!

[bodgit]

I've ordered the PCB's to build one for my C128 CR. Because you end up having to buy multiple PCB's I will have some spare so happy to make some extras, test them, and sell them at near cost if anyone is interested.

[JDet-74]

I've ordered the PCB's to build one for my C128 CR. Because you end up having to buy multiple PCB's I will have some spare so happy to make some extras, test them, and sell them at near cost if anyone is interested.

DITO :) ... My PCBs arrived two days ago, and I will solder it on Tuesday. I will test the board A.S.A.P. and I have also a few PCBs left. Hopefully it works.

[Obiwantje]

@bodgit and @JDet-74 - Would love to purchase 1 (or 2) from you for use in my C128 and C128DCR

[JDet-74]

@bodgit and @JDet-74 - Would love to purchase 1 (or 2) from you for use in my C128 and C128DCR

In total, I have ordered 5 panelized small FPGA boards = 10 pcs. (which are fitting in C128 and C64 short-boards), 5 panelized VICII & VICIIe adapter boards = 15 pcs. each. If the all the boards are running well, I have a few boards left. But I just ordered 5 pcs. MAX10 FPGAs and just 2 pcs. DIP-sockets each VIC version, because they are not so cheap. If all runs fine we can talk about it. I have three C128DCR s, one C128 and two C64 short-board. But I don't want to put in all machines the FPGA mod. :)

[bodgit]

I should have four of the FPGA and VIC-IIe adapter PCB's spare. I built a few of the original C64 version previously and I still have the harness for testing them.

[mincebert]

I'm interested in a board for a 128DCR (built, if possible, as my soldering is terrible!) but I didn't really want to hijack this thread where the problems are being discussed, clogging it up with orders! I guess we're talking about using your spare boards at the moment — if it all looks good on various machines then someone could consider doing it for more general sale.

[JDet-74]

the built is done ... my first FPGA - it was a struggle to position it well ... but now it is done ... and I am done :) @c0pperdragon the adapter PCBs that you sent me are better than the PCBs from JLCPCB ... THX Can you please take a short look over the pictures, to check if all parts are assembled in the right way? I tried my best to assemble all the right way ... but the devil is a squirrel ;) the small FPGA boards fits great in the C128. I replaced the caps with new ones ... The board is a little to high ... I mounted sockets for easy exchange ... after the board works I will find a better solution The next STEP is flashing the FIRMWARE and testing.

[c0pperdragon]

This looks very well built. I guess you have a proper soldering oven to get this consistent look of the joints. I still don't have one myself, I keep telling me: For the next project I will buy an oven for sure....

About component placement: I don't know how the underside of the FPGA board looks. There are quite some decoupling caps there and a part of the resistor ladder as well.

I didn't think about a shrouded pin connector and was a bit careless with the components around it. But as I see, you either got lucky with the small capacitor and the way the connector had a hole. Or did you you just make the hole yourself?

Anyway, I guess there is not much now that can be done but turning it on and see what happens :-)

[JDet-74]

This looks very well built. I guess you have a proper soldering oven to get this consistent look of the joints. I still don't have one myself, I keep telling me: For the next project I will buy an oven for sure....

Yes, I am the SMD guy and responsible for the P&P machine and the crappy reflow oven at school. It is an IR-heated oven and that is not so ideal. I tested the PCB with thermo couples on it, because the temperature of the PCB is not equal to the thermo couple that measures the air temperature in the oven. So if you have a dark solder mask your PCB might be 40-50°C hotter than the air thermo couple says. You see ... it's a mess and pain in the a**. I ordered a stencil for the FPGA panel PCB and the stencil is a bit to thick for the fine pitch of the FPGA. So there was a way too much solder paste on the pads. So I had to align the FPGA just by luck and with the printed shape as a reference. The result was, after the reflow process, that the FPGA was not properly aligned. What a bummer. So I had to take the hot air gun to correct the mess. Hopefully I did not kill the FPGA with the HOT AIR GUN :(

About component placement: I don't know how the underside of the FPGA board looks. There are quite some decoupling caps there and a part of the resistor ladder as well.

I placed these parts too. Here you see. My worry is the right orientation of the FPGA, the oscillator and the buffer chips on the VICIIe-adapter. I tried to check the orientation with KiCad and your pictures in this repository. If you see something wrong, then tell me please.

I didn't think about a shrouded pin connector and was a bit careless with the components around it. But as I see, you either got lucky with the small capacitor and the way the connector had a hole. Or did you you just make the hole yourself?

I just ordered both connector types and was surprised that the shrouded one fits well :) I think it is better with a shrouded one, because it is for a better orientation how the plug goes in the connector.

Anyway, I guess there is not much now that can be done but turning it on and see what happens :-)

YES ... that is right. I will try to flash the firmware on Wednesday. If that goes well - it is testing time. My 40" LCD TV with componet inputs is waiting. :) I bought some TRRS connector cables - 3,5mm jack to 3x cinch - but I could only find the CVBS/Audio ones. I hope they will fit for your connection. The Other way I have to build my own one.

In the END ... the more I use KiCad with these awesome plugins the more I want to throw away eagle ;) Maybe it is worth to change the EDA tool. (hahahaha) :) TO BE CONTINUED - on Wednesday

[c0pperdragon]

As far as I can see from the pictures the orientation of these parts is correct. I can not quite see the pin-1 marker on the ICs of the C64 adapter. If it matches up with the pin-1 marker on the board everything should be fine.

[JDet-74]

As far as I can see from the pictures the orientation of these parts is correct.

Yes, I think I got it right. I searched for a DOT as a pin 1 marker of the IC, but I think the long line on the PCB marks the pin 1 for the buffer and decoder ICs.

I can not quite see the pin-1 marker on the ICs of the C64 adapter. If it matches up with the pin-1 marker on the board everything should be fine.

I think it is correct. On the C64 adapter board are all ICs in the same orientation. On the C128 adapter board U3 is 180° rotated. I will see on Wednesday if there will be some "magic smoke" .... hopefully not :)

[JDet-74]

News from the c128 battlefield ;) Yesterday I had the opportunity to continue tinkering with the C128. I managed to flash the FPGA board with the latest firmware. Quartus reported at least 100% ok on the transfer. The shielding of the graphics units (VDC / VIC) had previously been desoldered and removed. This is better to use the VIC-IIe adapter board. Then I connected the DIN8 to the S-Video input of the 40 "LCD TV to test whether an analog picture was transmitted. The S-Video picture was provided, but without a BASIC prompt. Well, you should test a used C128 first before you use it for such a project. After checking the voltages, it quickly became clear that 4V was not enough voltage. What a shame. Then I quickly took my C128DCR and removed the mainboard. There I also desoldered and removed the shielding. VIC adapter and FPGA board installed and connected to the LCD TV. The analog picture is available and in the usual good S-Video quality. But there was no picture at the Y Pb Pr entrance. I made the cable myself - it should fit. Tip - Ring - Ring are Y - Pb - Pr and Sleeve is GND. WELL - yesterday was not a lucky day. I've had enough for now. Maybe I will continue troubleshooting on Wednesday. @c0pperdragon: How can I test the FPGA without the VIC adapter? I saw test pattern files in a repository somewhere. Should I take the DSO to hand?

[bodgit]

I believe the test pattern firmware is here: https://github.com/c0pperdragon/A-VideoBoard/releases/tag/1.1

When I last built some of the original FPGA boards, I first flash that firmware and verify each board produces a working YPbPr test pattern. You should only need to supply +5V and GND so I just use some test clips attached to the legs of REG1 using a USB-based supply.

[JDet-74]

Allright... that's a good idea. I will try that tomorrow. Thank you very much.

[JDet-74]

I tested the FPGA boards with the test pattern. First, I had to figure out that I need to convert the .POF file to a .JAM file ;-( One board worked with the test pattern. Then I flashed the current firmware as a * .JEM file and tested it. Unfortunately without success. So there must be something wrong with the VIC adapter or the connection from the adapter to the FPGA. I couldn't flash the second FPGA board. After 30% there was an error. Maybe a bad solder joint or something like that. I will deal with it later. At the moment I don't feel like it anymore. ;) @bodgit it is up to you now :)

[bodgit]

What are you using to flash the firmware? If you use Quartus you shouldn't need to convert the file. I'd like to use something else as keeping a Quartus install around is probably overkill for just programming the firmware, but I'm also aware if it didn't work I wouldn't know where to start debugging!

I remember one of my previous boards didn't like to be programmed, it would always give some sort of JTAG error right at the start but eventually it would work and the board always functioned properly.

I'm still waiting for my PCB's to arrive, they're up in the air somewhere according to the tracking.

[JDet-74]

What are you using to flash the firmware? If you use Quartus you shouldn't need to convert the file. I'd like to use something else as keeping a Quartus install around is probably overkill for just programming the firmware, but I'm also aware if it didn't work I wouldn't know where to start debugging!

I am just an FPGA NOOB - I installed QUARTUS because I already bought a Cyclone V developer board to goof around with it. When I "drag & drop" the *POF file into QUARTUS pops a window with the possibility to program. When I click all the checkboxes (Program/Configure ....) I can hit "Start" and the something is transferred to the FPGA but nothing happen. When I klick "File -> create JAM File" and do the same with the JAM file it works. I did it like that with the test pattern. Anyway ... I realize it takes more time that I thought ... I habe other projects and work later on the FPGA project. Furthermore, I am looking forward to hearing about your results. The PCBs are fitting well, and you have the better FPGA skills :)

[c0pperdragon]

Maybe you are ticking too many of these boxes. I normally only use Program/Configure and Verify. When you click the box in the top line, all the boxes below are automatically active as well.
I have a faint memory that some checkboxes cause only a test or simulation of the programming but not actually doing it.

[JDet-74]

As I said ... I am just a NOOB with Quartus and FPGA ... I did it "quick and dirty" and certainly failed ;( But that doesn't matter ... I try it later ... when I have more time to tinker with it. @bodgit: good success ... I am looking forward to seeing your assembled PCBs

[mrdoornbos]

Yes, I actually have 15 PCBs left. I only needed one, but my PCB manufacturer charges me always at least 10 pieces and then also adds some extra.

Actually these PCBs were paid for by @ami-commo-fan . But as I basically built his adapter for free, I guess it is OK that I sell them off now.

So you can have 2 PCBs (just in case you screw one up) for €5 including international delivery in a simple non-tracked envelope. Paypal account reinhard.grafl@aon.at. Please add the shipping address.

Do you still have these?

[nickgoodmanuk]

Yes, I actually have 15 PCBs left. I only needed one, but my PCB manufacturer charges me always at least 10 pieces and then also adds some extra. Actually these PCBs were paid for by @ami-commo-fan . But as I basically built his adapter for free, I guess it is OK that I sell them off now. So you can have 2 PCBs (just in case you screw one up) for €5 including international delivery in a simple non-tracked envelope. Paypal account reinhard.grafl@aon.at. Please add the shipping address.

Do you still have these?

I am also interested please for my C128 :)

[c0pperdragon]

Just send me an e-mail. I still have some of these.

[nickgoodmanuk]

Just send me an e-mail. I still have some of these.

Thanks. Just sent with PayPal with my Shipping Address, really appreciated. I still need to get 2 of your actual boards one for my 64c and other for this 128, VGP are not sending to the UK at the moment but as soon as they do I will be getting :) Love your work.

[mrdoornbos]

Just send me an e-mail. I still have some of these.

Just send me an e-mail. I still have some of these.

I paypaled you as well

[c0pperdragon]

I have sent off both envelopes with two PCBs each. The one to UK should take 2-4 days, the one to USA about a week or so. Good luck building your C128 VIC-II adapters.

[nickgoodmanuk]

I have sent off both envelopes with two PCBs each. The one to UK should take 2-4 days, the one to USA about a week or so. Good luck building your C128 VIC-II adapters.

Thankyou very much. Really appreciated. Photos will follow.

@JDet-74 I am interested in the small FPGA board you have designed for an internal non destructive fit in the commodore 128. I've never created an FPGA could you give some pointers or is it possible to use your design?, no need to re-invent the wheel :)

[c0pperdragon]

These small FPGA boards are actually my designs. You can find schematics and gerber files at https://github.com/c0pperdragon/C64-Video-Enhancement/tree/master/smallreplacement

[JDet-74]

@JDet-74 I am interested in the small FPGA board you have designed for an internal non destructive fit in the commodore 128. I've never created an FPGA could you give some pointers or is it possible to use your design?, no need to re-invent the wheel :)

I have a few circuit boards left. How many do you want? I can send you some PCBs in a bubble envelope if you want. I put on the solder paste with a stencil (as you can see in the photo) but you can also solder the components manually.

[nickgoodmanuk]

@JDet-74 I am interested in the small FPGA board you have designed for an internal non destructive fit in the commodore 128. I've never created an FPGA could you give some pointers or is it possible to use your design?, no need to re-invent the wheel :)

I have a few circuit boards left. How many do you want? I can send you some PCBs in a bubble envelope if you want. I put on the solder paste with a stencil (as you can see in the photo) but you can also solder the components manually.

That would be amazing then I would just need the components. If you can add the solder via the stencil even better. Is it just a case of positioning the chip and heating carefully with solder air gun ? I have some soldering experience but nothing quite so detailed. Ideally I'd like to get a board already made up obviously willing to pay for it for the ultimate C128 :)