Music and Sounds

[c0pperdragon]

I created this Issue to work as a communication interface for everything sound and music related, similar to the graphics and gameplay issue.

[Gizemquea]

Since you asked what the lyrics are supposed to sound like, I uploaded a short demo https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/sy2-i-like-to-see-them-shine-vocals-demo/s-a8p8C

[c0pperdragon]

This is very good. A bit hard to actually hear the words under the masking effects, but I think I got it. Already trying to find some rhymes for additonal verses...

[Gizemquea]

I deliberately reduced the dry signal of the vocoder to a barely audible minimum, because my voice performance is awful at the moment. Actually all of this is still just a test to get more used to caustic 3. This applies to most of the track, it lacks proper percussions, the main melody is supposed to have a complete second voice, the bass line is still a rough sketch and too monotonic, the piece still misses a few instruments, it will be around 7 minutes long! There also is a lot more lyrics, including a rap section if I can pull it off...

[Charilaos]

Sounds good! Is this the new menu soundtrack in the works?

[Gizemquea]

Thanks for the kind words! :)

At the moment this is just considered to be demo stuff for the Sapphire Yours 2 Title Track. When completed, this track will also serve as in-game music for action levels (instrumental only). If I manage to pull off a version with reasonable singing voice, I'd rather have it as a bonus track - maybe for promotion, maybe for credits - but it is probably nothing to play when the main menu is displayed (at least not by default).

The menu soundtrack should be a lot more calm, my idea is to put together a medley of various melodies from some of the other pieces I have written for Sapphire Yours 2 and play it with E-Piano and minimal accompaniment.

As c0pperdragon already knows (since I played a lot of the proposed soundtrack live to him on my digital piano), there is a couple of new songs that I'm going to produce and I will also take the old Sapphire Yours soundtrack MIDIs and convert them into something more suitable for today's standards, probably changing the style for the old title track to some kind of hip hop shuffle.

If everything is going as plannend, we should end up with around a dozen tracks when I'm finished.

[Charilaos]

Sounds Great!

I've been writing down many subtle ideas regarding the user experience of the game (will be seen in the upcoming menu design). I think you just mentioned one of them: coupling the level categories to the music tracks that fit best. Better level genre/music combinations right out of the box for all levels, and saves the user the step of selecting music in the level editor (especially since we don't have the 30+ popular tracks from the old game's extension anymore).

[Gizemquea]

Another pre"view" - I still have no suitable singing voice... https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/sy2-i-like-to-see-them-shine/s-bfPEu

[Charilaos]

I particularly like how well it fits the game and old soundtrack!

[Gizemquea]

Here another draft of one of the old Sapphire Yours tracks, converted and re-arranged from the original midi file: https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/sapphire-yours-2-calm/s-ylrdy

[c0pperdragon]

Hey, that is very nice. This version of "calm" is really very soothing. Maybe the right music for the level category "puzzle"...

[Gizemquea]

Glad that you like it, but is just an import of the original midi so far, with minimal translation (if you listen closely you'll notice that some notes got lost from the original - I fixed this right after the export I uploaded to soundcloud). I'm going to extend this particular track considerably, including a few modifications to percussion, a new bass line and guitar accompaniment, probably a few new intermediate sections and probably pace it around 10% faster and add a little bit of shuffle/swing to it, have another preview here (still without guitars and extension, but already sounds a lot closer to what I have in mind): https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/calm-2/s-wdS0X

[Gizemquea]

I've almost finished the lyrics to "I like to see them shine" now, the only thing missing is a few minor modifications depending on the final arrangement of all sections. Anyway, you might want to take a look (and yes, I know it is really long):

Sapphire Yours 2 - I Like to See them Shine - Lyrics

Verse 1: There is a strange treasure - buried deep below the ground it's gems for your pleasure - to be found a flashy temptation - like the stars in deep black skies a tingling sensation - in your eyes

Refrain: ((it) seems that) I like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

Chorus 1: Down the mine - see them shine - what a sight - in the night

Verse 2: There is a formation - is it worthy of being worked? a simple equation - to be burked abundantly precious - all the gems from down the grove intrinsically gracious - in their cove

Refrain: ((it) seems that) like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

Interlude 1 (Chorus 2): There waits a world of beauty and wonder right under where most will never set foot not knowing on what they're missing out

Interlude 2: Go in, get there, find 'em, take 'em. To where? No one knows it for sure. Let's find out and bring them home! (now) Try it, make way, crystals brighten your day They will never betray your hopes for a better game (so) Take care and look never play by the book it's the challenge you seek that will be your victory

Interlude 3: There's a price to be gained it's the skills you attain they can't be taken from you at all You'll always know the puzzles you solve and the beasts you defeat for sure There's nothing that you can't overcome don't lose faith in yourself time will tell that you are the one! You’ll never lose the wits to outrun them take pride you've outdone yourself!

Refrain: ((it) seems that) I like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

Chorus 3: Deep below - see them glow - rays so bright - beam with might

Interlude 4: [RAP] It's gems, they're back, go looking where they are and the rest of our pack they'll never be far The beasts and cheese and lorries are your foes The lasers and bugs never worry how it goes It's tricks and traps and treasure to be found It's pushers and pillows and sound It's stones and dirt and walls and doors It's bombs, elevators, converters and floors So pick and dig and push and blast and grab and run and better be fast The loot is safes and sacks to crack and gems galore to bring 'em back

Refrain: ((it) seems that) I like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

Verse 3: It is an addiction - raiding gems from crystal mines There are depths to explore - for able minds adventure belowground - is what lures us all inside where gemstones and miners - beam with pride

Refrain: ((it) seems that) I like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

Interlude 5: [RAP] The game is rich in missions, it’s quite common to get lost they’re rated though to help you out, so choose what suits you most simple is solved on the very first try easy isn’t cheesy but is easy as pie moderate means basic skills and concepts will succeed normal needs more wits and grit to solve the thing indeed tricky starts to make you think as strategy’s required tough ‘s already on the brink where miner’s skills (are) admired difficult: a challenge and an expert player’s test hard is just true mastery and mining at its best M.A.D. will drive you nuts and make you suck so bad a sourdough will have the guts to face the task ahead

Refrain: ((it) seems that) I like to see them shine - while guiding my way (right forth into deeper realms) let’s have them add their - sparkles to my day ((it) seems that) I like to see them glow - with shimmering light (so bright in the velvet dark) They're bringing warmth and joy - into the night

[Gizemquea]

I have a crazy idea which actually could be great fun and add to the immersive effect of our mines if we can make it work:

What about synchronizing some graphics effects to the soundtrack? E.g. when listening to the latest version of calm, does anybody else see the gems sway ever so sightly to the rhythm (in a movement just like the original robots had, just more subtle). The same would be possible e.g. for sparkles or glows (these could be triggered by musical accents like what is already present in I like to see them Shine), some other elements could slightly bump or wobble up and down (e.g. bombs or certain enemies like carriages or the green cheese).

I would envision this done in a way that is really depending on the current track and starts out almost unnoticeable and intensifies until the whole mine seems to be slightly swaying and glowing, not for the whole track but let's say just for refrains or musical catch phrases, with the effect fading out as the music plays along.

[Gizemquea]

And another update for Calm: https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/sapphire-yours-2-ost-calm-crystals/s-zaNFp

[Charilaos]

Cool! Soothing and dreamy yet still dynamic. You even got rid of the sawtooth-like bass of the previous attempt. And nicely increased in length, new part fits really well. 2 tiny suggestions?

• Higher BPM sounds good, but maybe every so slightly slower than it is now? (somewhere in between the old and new one)
• I personally kinda liked the fact that the old one had no fade in! It had a feeling of directness, starting directly upon entering the level - just like the level itself was instantly loaded when pressing enter (still a feat I admire).

Above all, happy new year in advance to you both!

[Gizemquea]

The fade in was just a try, mainly because the original instrumentation and mix seemed to "plop" - it was never intended for use in the game anyway :)

Have this version: https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/calm-crystals/s-CiTqI

It clocks at 66 BPM - this is right between the 60 of the old track and the 72 in my previous version. However, I still prefer the 72 BPM, but I agree that it took some time getting used to it (ironically, 66 BPM was an inbetween speed I chose before I came up with the more "swingy" 72 BPM).

[Gizemquea]

Ah, and before I forget, there is an early demo of the old Action track: https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/action/s-OFi3y

[c0pperdragon]

Ahh this is very nice and sounds soo familiar. I already have quite a bad concience that the work on the programming part is going so slowly right now.

A short comment about the suggestion for coupling some visual effects to the music: This all depends on the way the music will be played by the web browsers and if there is indeed a reliable way to know which part of the music is being played right now. It will surely be not possible to time it exactly on certain beats, but your suggestion to let the objects get into a kind pulsing or swaying is probably possible.

[Gizemquea]

https://soundcloud.com/user-738506663-320789471/sapphire-yours-2-ost-action/s-4uvlk

[c0pperdragon]

This one is quite polished now, but one thing bothers me a bit. You are using a very strong echoing effect on the main voice. The effect is actually so strong, that I always have the strange impression of listening to two different songs on top of each other (like you get when you forget to close some background browser tab that still plays a music of its own).

[Gizemquea]

The strong effect is intentional, but your milage may vary, depending on the device you are using (e.g. headphones vs. stereo speakers vs. mono speaker in a cellphone or tablet).

In fact the whole song was orignally written to deliberately support a very strong cross delay effect that almost sounds like a canon (but standard MIDI doesn't give you this effect on only one channel, you'd have to duplicate and delay the orignal notes).

I can tune it down somewhat - but the version I have now acutally sounds very good on the set of small monitor speakers and also on my reference headset I was using while travelling (I was on vacation during the time I converted and remastered this song). Even my mother likes it very much the way it is. You know her, this really means something. :)

[Charilaos]

It’s nice to hear how the instruments sound so much more realistic than they did before, specially the electric guitar and the flute.

Did you also compose the music for the original SY? Are you using Guitar Pro by any chance?

I’m afraid I have the same feeling as Reinhard on the Action track. The dreamy voice track is too prominent which makes it too soft for action. In the old music the drums and especially the bass tracks were punchier, and the other instruments (piano, flute, guitar and synth) were louder in comparison and had a combination of less echo and delay. This made for a more tight and upbeat sound. Worth a try?

Also, can’t wait to hear the new Granite!

[Gizemquea]

Yes I am the composer of the original Sapphire Yours soundtrack. I am using Caustic 3 on an Amazon Fire HD 7 tablet to produce the music for Sapphirs Yours 2. Almost all of the instruments are synthesized, there are only a few exceptions (e.g. the guitar is sampled).

I'm not against reducing the tempo cross delay somewhat, but it seems to depend strongly on the playback device used. I knew that the effect was VERY intense (in fact I deliberately optimized it to be as strong as possible without going into feedback), but when I played around with it, I used setups which had a near-perfect stereo separation (e.g. headphones or speakers almost exactly to the left/right of my hering positon). Since it is a cross delay effect synchronized with the actual playback speed, I could always locate where the echos come from - and it sounds good this way (because as I mentioned, even the original track was composed with this kind of effect in mind). However I can see yoru argument that the sound gets more than just a little bit too soft and unfocused, as soon as you lose track of the actual stereo position (or even use a mono setup).

I think this is the reason why we seem to percieve the piece so differently. Of course you have a point here, because we have to assume that any future listeners to this track will most probably not have a setup like I used. That means I'll definitely reduce the global tempo cross delay (actually the effect you hear in the current version is a double cross delay/tempo cross delay combination using a master tempo cross delay with individual strength per track and another cross delay that is manually tuned and only assigned to the two instruments in questoin) of this track's two main voices - this will also implicitly change the volume in the direction you suggested.

Regarding Granite: This is a tricky one, because the original is acutally performed on keyboard and not manually set, like most of the other pieces, and it makes use of standard patterns of an old keyboard I no longer have.

This piece doesn't translate well into caustic 3, so I cannot just import it and be done with minimal editiing new instrumentation and mixing - I may as well skip the original Granite altogether and create an new version with a Hip hop shuffle rhythm. I actually played this live to Reinhard already (along with almost 10 other tracks, most of them completely new), he seemed to like it very much :)

At the moment I'm not really motivated in trying to recreate the old Granite, but maybe this will change in the future once I produced most of the other tracks I have in mind. I'd probably have to re-write the whole thing from scratch or at least quantize the import and reduce most of the almost insane dynamics in the velocity values of that track. Another reason why I'm hesitant about this one: it strongly depends on a good choice of instruments and it is trickier than it seems to get this done in Caustic 3.

[Charilaos]

Thanks for the insight, exciting to hear there are so many new tracks coming! Meanwhile the new Action sound has really grown on me. I've heard it in 3 different ways now, here are the observations:

• First through earbuds: sounds good, although the amount of tracks and effects were a little hard to handle with ease (a lot is happening in the mid frequencies)
• through a rather crappy old iphone speaker: this is where the main voice gets too loud. Not because it is, but because small speakers tend to emphasize certain sounds, and in this case it's the vocals track (but that's expected on all small speakers).
• now also on my reference sound system at home, which is a stupidly excessive audiophile thing where even the source power is heavily conditioned. And it absolutely sings! Only 2 remarks here: it was only the flute that needs a bit less delay as the amount sounds unnatural for a flute - this will also help reduce the complexity in the mid-freqs which will allow simpler sound systems to handle it with ease. The main point is that the bass track is too smeared/unarticulated, I think it would benefit from being more clear/staccato. I've thrown the midi file in GP7 and set a simple synth bass to illustrate what I mean by a clearer bass. Dont focus on anything else as it sounds bad: very oldschool midi sounds, and it's trial software that doesn't let me export the sound so I recorded it with my phone in the room.

https://soundcloud.com/charilaosmulder/action

Keep it up!