Open lathiat opened 2 months ago
Hello @lathiat, thanks for raising this. What you describe here is not a bug, but a feature (: There is a product decision to prefer esm packages when those are installed, unless the users actively configure it diferently for any PPA.
As you pointed out, the intention is that any user who has opted in to ESM never automatically gets an update that was not released by our secuity team, for the risks that may be implied by these upgrades.
but instead users are unable to install newer versions of software from all third party repositories
Well that is only true for apt upgrade
and variants, as unattended upgrades and update manager.
Users can install unpreferred packages by specifying the version when running apt install
:
sudo apt install fish=3.7.1-1~jammy
Alternatively, if users want any package in a PPA to have preference over ESM, they must manually configure apt to do so when the PPA is added, by creating a preferences file pinning the PPA to a higher version than ESM. We can't configure this in the user's behalf (I mean the Pro Client itself could of course, but that is again a product decision). You also mention that this would mean that if the PPA gets stale, it will be preferred over the archive or ESM itself - again, the user must decide about this and configure it accordingly.
I see this is not documented anywhere. What our team can do is to document that you need to pin your PPAs - maybe add it to the page where we mention the pins. Do you think documenting it helps? Is that a feasible answer to your request?
On a separate thread, when it comes to the Ubuntu archive, it should be fine to have the ESM version pinned because it should never run too far from the versions in -updates
for instance.
@dodys, do you see how the cargo
version is outdated there on ESM in this example here? Is that expected? Is that part of that monitoring of universe updates so ESM does not get too far behind?
Let's ignore the cargo situation for a moment within the context of the bug, since I just happened to notice that discrepancy, I think that is an unrelated issue that can be resolved, since as you state the ESM and Main archive packages should be closely tracking each other normally. But I'll discuss the rest.
Users of Ubuntu can and do install software from PPAs and other third party apt repositories very frequently, often those PPAs are added explicitly to get a newer version of a very specific piece of software they are interested in, in most cases that same piece of software is also in the Ubuntu archives, with an older version. Instructions to install software like this are everywhere. This is VERY very common, almost universal.
On that basis, I think that preventing installation of newer versions of software from other apt sources is a bug. This can and will break user expectations not only of "third party" PPAs, but even many apt sources or PPAs of official Canonical products such as Charmed OpenStack, COS, etc.
I agree that having a slightly older ESM package preferred over a package in the Ubuntu main archive is a "feature". I understand why this was added, and I am fine with that part of it. The problem is that the fix for that has this unintended and problematic consequences for changing package version priority of repositories other than something in Ubuntu/UbuntuESM.
There are real problems with the workarounds you mentioned:
Hence I think for many different reasons and scenarios, what we need here is a solution that will have older versions in the UbuntuESM origin be preferred over packages in the Ubuntu origin ONLY, without in any way impacting normal version selection for any other origin/repository/ppa combination. Anything else is going to break user expectations and product expectations in unexpected ways. But I am not sure that is possible with apt currently.
Some input from someone much more knowledgable about apt would be helpful, perhaps @julian-klode?
Thanks for the longer explanations about the problems!
On the APT side, there is nothing we could do. This was discussed with Julian in different contexts - including this one of pinning the ESM stuff - seems there is a planned feature for APT to do this kind of distinction (using Origins and how packages from one Origin can upgrade to some different one), but that's future IIRC. @julian-klode can confirm of course.
What you describe here is not a bug, but a feature (:
What I mean by that is that while the Client is responsible to set this configuration, this wasn't our decision - this was a request from the people who maintain ESM on the security side.
I do understand your concerns and I think they are valid, and I don't think we want users to have bad experiences like the ones described. I wonder that if the pinning is doing more harm than good, we could reconsider it as a whole. @dodys let's try to involve the people who can make a decision on the path forward in this discussion?
For instance, @lechsandecki, what would be your take on this?
On a separate thread, when it comes to the Ubuntu archive, it should be fine to have the ESM version pinned because it should never run too far from the versions in
-updates
for instance. @dodys, do you see how thecargo
version is outdated there on ESM in this example here? Is that expected? Is that part of that monitoring of universe updates so ESM does not get too far behind?
the cargo listed here is different from the cargo in esm.
cargo
in esm is the source package name, which generates a binary named cargorustc
, which generates a binary named cargo.cargo
source package is in universe, rustc
is in main.I don't think there's much we can do here, it needs to be a manual intervention if you want the latest cargo binary package
Thanks for the longer explanations about the problems!
On the APT side, there is nothing we could do. This was discussed with Julian in different contexts - including this one of pinning the ESM stuff - seems there is a planned feature for APT to do this kind of distinction (using Origins and how packages from one Origin can upgrade to some different one), but that's future IIRC. @julian-klode can confirm of course.
What you describe here is not a bug, but a feature (:
What I mean by that is that while the Client is responsible to set this configuration, this wasn't our decision - this was a request from the people who maintain ESM on the security side.
Just to correct here, it wasn't a decision by security. Pinning was a request from cloud customers because of the fact that ESM Apps is subject to SRU and so on, and therefore people are subject to "losing" the fix that went into ESM. It came directly from CPC and was agreed with Product Management. The only thing security did was improve tracking to reduce the time when archive and ESM archive are too different. It was not our call to make on having the pinning or not. As mentioned on the first reply, it is a product decision.
We have a PR documenting the ESM pinning here #3363 Once it lands, I will close this issue
Description of the bug
The pro client installs an apt pinning rule to give Pin-Priority 510 to packages in the UbuntuESM/UbuntuESMApps repositories, in the following files: /etc/apt/preferences.d/ubuntu-pro-esm-apps /etc/apt/preferences.d/ubuntu-pro-esm-infra
This causes apt not to select a package from any other repository, even if it has a newer version number. This applies to packages both in the main archive, as well as any third-party repository such as a Launchpad PPA, Ubuntu Cloud Archive, etc.
It seems the intent was likely to ensure we use the ESM version of a package in preference to a different version in the main archive, perhaps to prevent upgrading to a non-fixed version after an SRU to the main archive without the security fix was released for example, but instead users are unable to install newer versions of software from all third party repositories. This was done as part of #2580, #2681.
I discovered this when trying to install a newer version of 'fish' from their Launchpad PPA. The same would apply for users using any kind of third party PPA to get a newer version of a package.
This also has implications for other Ubuntu services such as the Ubuntu Cloud archive which may make newer versions of packages available for OpenStack, OVN, Ceph, etc. If such a package also gets an ESM update, the wrong version may unexpectedly be installed.
Expected behavior
Pro client should not prevent newer versions of packages being installed from other repositories. It perhaps could prefer ESM packages over the regular Ubuntu archive, if it did not also make the same change for other archives.
We can match the main archive with o=Ubuntu, many other archives have an origin that is different (e.g. PPAs having something like o=LP-PPA-fish-shell-release-3), however modifying o=Ubuntu to 499 for example (or setting everything other than o=Ubuntu to 510) also means any even old outdated PPA for some bit of software would superseed the main Ubuntu archive, which is also likely not what we want.
I am not sure it's possible to implement the current intent without some kind of rule that would explicitly say "only prefer UbuntuESM to Ubuntu, and not any other archive", from what I can see that option doesn't currently exist. But I think we need to consult with someone that really understands apt much better than even me.
Current behavior
To Reproduce
Please include details on how to reproduce the bug.
You can also see on a default install that
cargo
has a much newer package version in jammy-updates than ESM.System information: