Sensory content (sound of X)

[aryamanarora]

तेरे क़दमों की आवाज़ tere qadmõ kī āvāz you-GEN footsteps GEN sound the sound of your footsteps

This is a multilingual issue. Paraphrasing from the Slack discussion, some potential readings:

• Topic: The sound consists of footsteps. In this case, sound is an information unit.
• Gestalt: The sound is one component of the activity of footsteps. But note that sound isn't clearly a property of an action. "the sound of footsteps was very loud", "?the height of the building was very tall"
• Causer~Gestalt: The footsteps are causing the sound, and the sound are a separate event. This is arguably not the best reading.

[nschneid]

Consider that a “smell of flowers” (or “flower smell”) may not have been produced by actual flowers. Though the noun may look like a property of the object/event, it may represent more than that—a sensory information “package” whose quality is indicated by the type of object/event—in which case Topic rather than Gestalt.

(generic object. Topic?) a strong smell of paint a bright color of paint (Species-like if we are selecting paint colors)

(specific object—property. Gestalt?) the strong smell of the paint / the paint’s strong smell

[nschneid]

a specific/generic distinction would be reminiscent of plain QuantityItem vs. QuantityItem~>Whole: a bunch of children vs. a bunch of THE children

[aryamanarora]

Also note [171] in guidelines:

• (Your father smells/The soup tastes) of elderberries. (Manner~Stuff)

This seems to imply the smell is comprised of elderberries, which is an entirely different reading?

[nschneid]

I always forget about Stuff. Hmmm....we can construe "the smell" as consisting of elderberries—does that account for the choice of "of"? I.e. should we consider Topic~>Stuff or Gestalt~>Stuff?

[nschneid]

I guess the issue is that we can reify sensory experiences at which point they are lend themselves to many different possible construals.

Default: I smell elderberries

Reified:

• the smell is like a property of the object (the elderberries HAVE a smell and taste)
• the smell is like a substance made of the object: it CONSISTS of elderberries
• the smell is like a transmission coming from the (specific) object: the smell FROM the elderberries
• the smell is like information communicated to the sensory organs: it "contains" elderberries like a text contains a message

We've seen something similar with disease: you can say somebody is ill, but when reified as illness it gets complicated:

• afflicted BY an illness (Causer)
• afflicted WITH / having an illness (Possession)
• suffering FROM an illness
• fighting an illness (Theme? (co-)Agent?)

[nschneid]

FrameNet Sensation frame: see discussion of Percept and Source. This is related to the generic/specific distinction mentioned above.

[aryamanarora]

"the smell FROM the garlic" adds yet another potential reading? I would even just call this Source~Source. You can also say "noise FROM".

[nschneid]

"the smell FROM the garlic" adds yet another potential reading? I would even just call this Source~Source. You can also say "noise FROM".

yeah updated above

[aryamanarora]

another slightly different one from The Little Prince

उसी की शिकायत, दम्भ और चुप्पी के स्वर मैंने सुने हैं usī kī śikāyat, dambh, aur cuppī ke svar maiñne sune haiñ 3S-EMPH GEN complaint, pride, and silence GEN sound-PL 1S-ERG listen-PRFV be-PRS I have listened to the sounds of her complaints, her pride, and her silence

this is perhaps more clearly Topic, since it's the contents of communication

[nschneid]

Let's go with Topic for a kind of sound, smell, etc., as in "the smell of garlic" (FN Percept)

TBD: a particular entity that gives off a sound, smell, etc., as in "the smell of the garlic" (FN Source). Maybe Stimulus?

[nschneid]

And they heard the roaring thunder of a third brilliantly lighted express .

It's not obvious what to do with an inanimate particular noise-maker in relation to the sound.

If you can hear a thundering noise (Stimulus), and you can hear a train (Stimulus), and the train causes the thunder sound...is the train a Stimulus of the thunder?

If I sing a song, I am the Originator of the song. But the train is inanimate, thus not Originator.

We could use Source, because the sound starts with its noise-maker. Or Causer, because it causes the noise-making that results in the noise. Or Gestalt, because how something sounds can be considered one of its attributes (although that might work better for "thunderousness" which describes a characteristic property, not a noise emitted at a particular moment in time).

[nschneid]

Going with Source for now.

Also for

The song of the pulley was still in my ears