adding river and lake to the area type table ?

[gnikulin]

There was a very long issue with many discussions https://github.com/cf-convention/discuss/issues/73 about new standard names for lake and river variables. My understanding is that there was a common agreement to add river and lake to the area type table. However, I don't see lake and river in the area type table. There are fresh_free_water that can be used but don't separate between lakes and rivers and also one area type - lake_ice_or_sea_ice where at least lake appears. Perhaps, it's easier to open a new issue focusing only on the area type for lakes and rivers.

[JonathanGregory]

Dear Grisha @gnikulin

I agree, that point wasn't taken up as a definite proposal. I believe you are proposing now that we should add lake and river area-types - is that correct? On that assumption, I'll change the label from question to vocabulary. Several people supported adding these new area types in principle, and raised significant points to be addressed.

Beate @GeyerB proposed definitions:

An area type of "lake" means a body of (usually fresh) water surrounded by land. An area type of "river" means a natural stream of water of considerable volume. (see http://glossary.ametsoc.org/wiki/River)

Karl @taylor13 asked:

Can we clarify in our definition what distinguishes a lake from an inland sea? I've seen descriptions that say a sea is at sea level and connected to an ocean while a lake may be above or below sea level and if connected to the ocean is not a "sea". (Under this definition the "Dead Sea" is a lake.)

Best wishes

Jonathan

[gnikulin]

I believe you are proposing now that we should add lake and river area-types - is that correct? On that assumption, I'll change the label from question to vocabulary.

Jonathan, yes, it's exactly what I meant - to add lake and river area-types. Changing the label from question to vocabulary is absolutely fine.

Karl @taylor13 asked:

Can we clarify in our definition what distinguishes a lake from an inland sea? I've seen descriptions that say a sea is at sea level and connected to an ocean while a lake may be above or below sea level and if connected to the ocean is not a "sea". (Under this definition the "Dead Sea" is a lake.)

One of differences between lakes and inland seas may be salinity I think, freshwater lake or salt lake . Wiki says "An inland sea will generally be brackish, with higher salinity than a freshwater lake but usually lower salinity than seawater."

[taylor13]

In CF I think most folks currently interpret "sea" as a body of water of considerable size at sea level. Perhaps we could use the term "inland_seas_and_lakes" to distinguish other surface waters from rivers and streams.

[gnikulin]

Just chatted with a lake modeller and salinity is not the best criteria to distinguish between a lake and an inland sea as there are many salty lakes that are not inland seas. It was also mentioned that still there is no clear definition how to distinguish between lakes and inland seas. Perhaps, "inland_seas_and_lakes" as Karl suggested may be a good option.

[gnikulin]

Can we preliminary summarise that:

• Lake and inland sea: an area type of inland_sea_and_lake means a body of water surrounded by land.

lake_and_inland_sea sounds a bit better for me ?

• River: an area type of river means a natural stream of water of considerable volume, (see http://glossary.ametsoc.org/wiki/River).

[gnikulin]

@JonathanGregory may we expect any actions here ?

[github-actions[bot]]

Thank you for your proposal. These terms will be added to the cfeditor (http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1) shortly. Your proposal will then be reviewed and commented on by the community and Standard Names moderator.

[larsbarring]

I have just added the label "standard name" as the issue template specifically mentions changes to the area type table.

[JonathanGregory]

Please could the standard name moderators consider this proposal for the area type table? @efisher008 @japamment @feggleton