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Standard names: Propose new names for sea ice biogeochemical parameters for use in SIMIP and CMIP7 #223

Closed letitede closed 1 week ago

letitede commented 2 months ago

As discussed within the Sea Ice Model Intercomparison Project (SIMIP) for CMIP7, I would like to propose some new standard names in relation to sea-ice biogeochemistry.

Name: sichl Title: Amount of Total Ice Algae Expressed as Chlorophyll in Sea Ice CF Standard Name: amount_ice_algae_expressed_as_chlorophyll_in_sea_ice Units: Kg m-2 Description: Sum of chlorophyll from all ice algal group concentrations.

Name: sic Title: Total Ice Algal Carbon Amount CF Standard Name: mole_content_of_ice_algae_expressed_as_carbon_in_sea_ice Units: mol m-2 Description: Sum of ice algal carbon component content.

Name: sino3 Title: Dissolved Nitrate Amount in Sea Ice CF Standard Name: mole_amount_of_nitrate_in_sea_ice Units: mol m-2 Description: Mole amount means moles of substance per unit area.

Name: sisi Title: Dissolved Silicon Amount in Sea Ice CF Standard Name: mole_amount_of_silicon_in_sea_ice Units: mol m-2 Description: Mole amount means moles of substance per unit area.

Name: sigpp Title: Gross primary production in sea ice as carbon amount flux CF Standard Name: gross_primary_productivity_of_biomass_expressed_as_carbon_in_sea_ice Units: kg m-2 s Description: Total GPP of ice algae in sea ice.

Thanks for considering this proposal.

Proposer's name: Letizia Tedesco Date: 12 September 2024

github-actions[bot] commented 2 months ago

Thank you for your proposal. These terms will be added to the cfeditor (http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1) shortly. Your proposal will then be reviewed and commented on by the community and Standard Names moderator.

JonathanGregory commented 2 months ago

Dear Letizia @letitede

Thanks for your proposals.

We use the phrase in_sea_ice for intensive properties of the material, as with in_air and in_sea_water. Your quantities are extensive properties of the whole layer, for which we put sea_ice at the front instead like e.g. the existing standard name sea_ice_mass_content_of_salt and many ocean_mole_content_... and ocean_mass_content_... standard names. Following this pattern, your proposed "amount" names would be

sea_ice_mass_content_of_ice_algae_expressed_as_chlorophyll
sea_ice_mole_content_of_ice_algae_expressed_as_carbon
sea_ice_mole_content_of_nitrate
sea_ice_mole_content_of_silicon

For the last one, I would suggest we include by_ice_algae, since they're doing the production, like with e.g. tendency_of_mole_concentration_of_particulate_organic_matter_expressed_as_carbon_in_sea_water_due_to_net_primary_production_by_diatoms. That would make it

gross_primary_productivity_of_biomass_expressed_as_carbon_due_to_ice_algae_in_sea_ice

Does that make sense? I think this one should be in kg m-2 s-1.

It would be helpful to have an opinion from @roy-lowry on "ice algae".

Best wishes

Jonathan

taylor13 commented 2 months ago

Regarding Jonathan's rewording ..."due to ice algae in sea ice". Are there any other kinds of algae in sea ice? If not, perhaps "due to algae in sea ice" would do. Karl

letitede commented 1 month ago

Dear Jonathan @JonathanGregory, Dear Karl @taylor13 ,

Thank you for your feedback.

I apologize if the terminology used for the new variables was not entirely appropriate.

Regarding your suggestions, they all make sense.

As for the term "ice algae" vs. just "algae," I agree that if the environment is understood (i.e., sea ice in our case), using "algae" alone could suffice. However, "ice algae" leaves no room for ambiguity, and I would recommend keeping it for clarity and consistency.

As for the units for GPP, you are right, Jonathan — I missed a -1 in my initial proposal. kg m-2 s-1 is indeed correct.

Thank you both!

Kind regards, Letizia

roy-lowry commented 1 month ago

The term 'ice algae' is unfamiliar to me, but its meaning is clear - especially out of context with the rest of the Standard Name - and so I have no problem with its use.

Roy.

lhmarsden commented 1 month ago

My personal opinion is that it should be algae instead of ice_algae, for a few reasons.

This reminds me a bit of the sea_water vs just water issue. I heard some talk at the CF workshop that it may have been better with hindsight to use just water because now new standard names need to be proposed for lake/terrestrial water. Similar with land_ice which is used for glaciers, but what if the glacier extends over the sea, which is often the case?

So my preference would be for the more generalised term in this case.

roy-lowry commented 1 month ago

The term 'ice algae' conveys to me algae that survive in ice. I can see it possibly being used to partition algae in sea water in a modelling, but not observational, context as I can't see anybody trying to aggregate individual species measurements. I can't think of a use case for describing the algae that wouldn't survive in ice.

I'm unaware of any algae that can live in ice but not in water so In the context of an ice matrix 'ice algae' and 'algae' become synonyms. Consequently, I have no problem with either term within these Standard Names. If asked to come off the fence I would go for 'algae'.

The 'sea water' versus 'water' issue is nothing new. I remember unsuccessfully arguing for the use of 'water body' (the term I was using and is still used in the NVS P01 vocabulary) at a meeting in Seattle in 2008.

letitede commented 1 month ago

Dear all, Thank you for your comments. I’m fine with whichever convention you prefer. Roy is right—ice algae are phytoplankton species that survive and thrive in sea ice, unlike many other phytoplankton. As long as the sea ice environment is clear, "algae" alone is sufficient. However, I previously suggested using "ice algae" to avoid ambiguity, as "algae" is a broad term that includes phytoplankton, benthic species, and others on land. Within the sea-ice community, we rarely refer to them simply as “algae” only, even if the context is clear. I hope this helps. Kind regards, Letizia

[edited by @JonathanGregory to delete the copy of @roy-lowry's previous message]

JonathanGregory commented 1 month ago

Dear all

I tend to agree with Karl, Luke and Roy in preferring just algae, since their being within sea ice is certainly clear from these standard names. Following Luke's last point, it would be peculiar to talk about non_ice_algae in sea ice. However, I'm interested in Letizia's comment that sea-ice scientists call them "ice algae". In a paper, would you write, "We found the concentration of ice algae in the ice to be X," for instance? If you would, is it because you envisage the possibility of any other kind of algae being there?

Best wishes

Jonathan

letitede commented 1 month ago

Dear Jonathan,

Thank you for your feedback.

I would use "We found the concentration of ice algae in sea ice to be X" instead of "We found the concentration of algae in sea ice to be X." Although both are technically correct, I believe the former is more precise. The term algae is very general, whereas sea ice algae (or ice algae, when the context of sea ice is already established) specifies those particular algae adapted to live in the sea ice environment.

This distinction is important because several species of phytoplankton that become entrapped in sea ice eventually perish, as they are not genetically tuned or lack acclimation strategies to survive in such harsh conditions. By using ice algae, we emphasize that these are the algae capable of thriving within sea ice, highlighting their adaptations and ecological significance.

I hope this helps clarify my preference.

Best wishes, Letizia

roy-lowry commented 1 month ago

I expressed my preference before Letizia's statement that 'ice algae' is the term commonly used in the sea-ice community. My belief that community vocabulary should be used in Standard Names plus the point that algae trapped in the ice which don't survive are not considered part of the 'ice algae' sways my preference the other way.

It goes without saying that a definition of the term 'ice algae' would have to be included in the Standard Name description.

JonathanGregory commented 1 month ago

Dear Letizia

Thanks for the clarification. That's a good reason to use ice_algae in the standard name. I am happy to change my mind, along with Roy.

Best wishes

Jonathan

lhmarsden commented 1 month ago

I also agree

davidhassell commented 1 month ago

I've just caught up on this interesting thread - I also agree that ice_algae is good for the standard name.

efisher008 commented 1 month ago

Dear @letitede,

I have added your proposed names (preserving the history as well as their current versions) into the CF editor. The terms are viewable here:

Karl pointed out that a definition of (sea) ice algae would be necessary in the descriptions of all proposed names containing this phrase. Would you like to modify your below explanation in any way to construct this?

Sea ice algae (or ice algae, when the context of sea ice is already established) specifies those particular algae adapted to live in the sea ice environment. This distinction is important because several species of phytoplankton that become entrapped in sea ice eventually perish, as they are not genetically tuned or lack acclimation strategies to survive in such harsh conditions. By using ice algae, we emphasize that these are the algae capable of thriving within sea ice, highlighting their adaptations and ecological significance.

There are also some phrases from the CF phrase list which I would suggest adding. These are:

Best, Ellie

letitede commented 3 weeks ago

Dear Ellie, Thank you for your message. Here is a slightly revised version: "Sea-ice algae (or simply 'ice algae' when the context of sea ice is clear) refer to algae uniquely able to thrive within the sea-ice environment. This distinction from phytoplankton is essential, as several phytoplankton species that become trapped in sea ice eventually perish due to a lack of genetic adaptation or acclimation strategies to survive such conditions. By referring to 'sea-ice algae,' we highlight these algae's specific features and ecological significance within the sea-ice habitat." Regarding your other suggestions, I agree with them. Thank you! Kind Regards, Letizia

From: Ellie Fisher @.> Sent: maanantai 21. lokakuuta 2024 18.51 To: cf-convention/vocabularies @.> Cc: Tedesco Letizia @.>; Mention @.> Subject: Re: [cf-convention/vocabularies] Standard names: Propose new names for sea ice biogeochemical parameters for use in SIMIP and CMIP7 (Issue #223)

Dear @letitedehttps://github.com/letitede,

I have added your proposed names (preserving the history as well as their current versions) into the CF editor. The terms are viewable here:

Karl pointed out that a definition of (sea) ice algae would be necessary in the descriptions of all proposed names containing this phrase. Would you like to modify your below explanation in any way to construct this?

Sea ice algae (or ice algae, when the context of sea ice is already established) specifies those particular algae adapted to live in the sea ice environment. This distinction is important because several species of phytoplankton that become entrapped in sea ice eventually perish, as they are not genetically tuned or lack acclimation strategies to survive in such harsh conditions. By using ice algae, we emphasize that these are the algae capable of thriving within sea ice, highlighting their adaptations and ecological significance.

There are also some phrases from the CF phrase list which I would suggest adding. These are:

Best, Ellie

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/223#issuecomment-2427070397, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AH3GUW72NCZG2KYPDQWDEBTZ4UPFZAVCNFSM6AAAAABOEDFRPOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDIMRXGA3TAMZZG4. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.**@.>>

efisher008 commented 3 weeks ago

Hi Letizia @letitede,

Thank you for the updated description for ice_algae. I have added this as a phrase to the CF phrase list, and also added the approved suggested text into the standard name descriptions.

I think we can now start the countdown to acceptance, as it seems as though this issue has reached consensus. If there are no further comments in the next 7 days, these names will be accepted and published in the next standard name table v87, planned for mid-November. Thanks again for your proposal.

Best wishes, Ellie

efisher008 commented 2 weeks ago

Hi Letizia @letitede,

As 7 days have passed with no further comment, I think we can consider these standard names as accepted. They will be published in the next version of the standard names table, which is scheduled for release in mid-November. Thanks again!

Best wishes, Ellie

letitede commented 2 weeks ago

Thank you so much, Ellie!

Kind Regards, Letizia

-------- Original message -------- From: Ellie Fisher @.> Date: 04/11/2024 20.56 (GMT+02:00) To: cf-convention/vocabularies @.> Cc: Tedesco Letizia @.>, Mention @.> Subject: Re: [cf-convention/vocabularies] Standard names: Propose new names for sea ice biogeochemical parameters for use in SIMIP and CMIP7 (Issue #223)

Hi Letizia @letitedehttps://github.com/letitede,

As 7 days have passed with no further comment, I think we can consider these standard names as accepted. They will be published in the next version of the standard names table, which is scheduled for release in mid-November. Thanks again!

Best wishes, Ellie

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/223#issuecomment-2455470382, or unsubscribehttps://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AH3GUW5PP5L74RY22EFSZBDZ667MPAVCNFSM6AAAAABOEDFRPOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43OSLTON2WKQ3PNVWWK3TUHMZDINJVGQ3TAMZYGI. You are receiving this because you were mentioned.Message ID: @.***>

japamment commented 1 week ago

All the names proposed here have been published in V87 of the standard name table, so closing this issue now.