Open achho opened 10 months ago
Thank you for your proposal. These terms will be added to the cfeditor (http://cfeditor.ceda.ac.uk/proposals/1) shortly. Your proposal will then be reviewed and commented on by the community and Standard Names moderator.
The standard name moderators can probably advise about this, thanks. @japamment @feggleton @efisher008.
These names have been discussed externally in https://github.com/WCRP-CORDEX/data-request-table/issues/17.
One was accepted as bedrock_depth_below_ground_level
(https://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/205). On the basis of discussion about area fraction names in #24 it was decided not to introduce the other two names lake_area_fraction
and urban_area_fraction
, but instead to use the existing area_fraction
standard name with cell_methods area: _mean where fresh_freewater and area: mean where urban.
The use of the area type fresh_free_water
for a lake area was further discussed in https://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/62 and externally in https://github.com/WCRP-CORDEX/data-request-table/issues/24, and it was officially proposed to add lake
and river
as area types to the CF area type table in https://github.com/cf-convention/vocabularies/issues/65. This is currently being dealt with on this issue (#65) in the new vocabularies repo.
I'm not sure the question of the OP was addressed, as they proposed a large amount of variables for which they found no CF standard_name. Some of them fall within existing standard names, but new area types would need to be defined, apart from those discussed in the CORDEX issues above.
Dear Jesus @jesusff,
I apologise for misunderstanding that the issue had concluded! I have reopened this and would welcome more discussion (or further comments from the original poster @achho).
Best regards, Ellie
Hi,
thanks for coming back to this topic. My main intention was to point out that there are still a number of variables without a standard name that are used by different working groups. I know of another urban climate project that underwent a similar process of agreeing on variable names for which no standard names were avaiable, and which used the names in the tables posted by me above instead. So I think there is still a need for the standardization of a number of the variables.
Thanks again, Achim
Thank you for reopening, Ellie. @achho in the CORDEX FPS-URB-RCC we are also planning to introduce urban-related variables into CF (much less than your proposal above...). We are planning a meeting to have a consensus on the needs and wording, to meet the demands of different communities in the field. Maybe someone from your WG would be willing to join.
Regarding your list of variables above, I wonder if it would be worth to have an external resource within CF, such as a chemical_compound table, to have a generic standard_name such as mole_fraction_of_chemical_compound_in_air
and an additional metadata to select the compound from the standard list. Surely, this option has already been discussed.
Dear Jesus @jesusff
The use of generic standard names for chemical species was discussed a few times years ago when the number of chemical species requested in standard names began to grow quickly. However, the consensus was against it, including the atmospheric chemists who requested the standard names. Certainly there would be fewer standard names in the table if we had followed that approach, but it hasn't got unmanageably large. If it did, we would certainly have to reconsider this decision. By contrast, it was decided to have generic names such as mass_concentration_of_biological_taxon_expressed_as_carbon_in_sea_water
for biological taxa, because the number of those is orders of magnitude larger, and they already have unique identifiers in external tables. Again, this was a consensus decision.
Best wishes
Jonathan
Thank you, yes, I imagined that this was a recurrent topic. The request above mentions 118 new compounds that they couldn't find in the standard names.
There are currently about 130 mole_fraction_of_
X_in_air
names, so the addition of another 118 wouldn't be extraordinary. I am concerned about the danger of providing more than one name for the same species, though. As far as I know, we don't have a rule about how chemical species should be named. Are these all IUPAC names, for example? Is that the right standard? Does it specify a unique name for any molecule? Also, when I was at school, we learned to put commas, not hyphens, in names such as 1,2,3,4-tetramethylbenzene. Has that changed? There are no commas in standard names at present, but I don't know a good argument why there shouldn't be if there's a definite need. I wonder whether @fmoconnor might have a view?
when I was at school, we learned to put commas, not hyphens, in names such as 1,2,3,4-tetramethylbenzene. Has that changed?
In answer to your comment @JonathanGregory, this had not changed at the time I was studying chemistry at school!
We are planning a meeting to have a consensus on the needs and wording, to meet the demands of different communities in the field. Maybe someone from your WG would be willing to join.
Thanks, that sounds like a good idea. I will ask around in my working group. I myself will be out of office for a few months.
Thanks @JonathanGregory for including me in this discussion. It's quite a long list but as @JonathanGregory suggests, I don't think it is unmanageable. As you say, these look to be IUPAC names, but using hyphens rather than commas. I guess one important aspect is to ensure that you cover some common names as aliases if/when these are implemented.
Thanks, Fiona @fmoconnor. We use aliases for standard names when we have changed our mind, rather than as synonyms by design. For each new species, we should decide whether to use a common name instead of a IUPAC name, if they are different. It would be helpful if we could think of a sensible policy for making a consistent decision about that.
Achim Holtmann January 11, 2024
In the research program "Urban Climate Under Change [UC]²" we formed a working group on data management which consisted of members of different research institutions to coordinate standards for sharing observation and model data. Where available, CF standard names were used, however, a number of variables were not found in the standard name tables (the bulk of the variable work was done in 2017).
The variable tables developed by the working group are available here (pdf) and here (csv). In all lines where the column standard_name is empty, no standard name has been found. Name suggestions in the table come from a variety of institutions with different background, including atmospheric measurements and LES-modelling.
As the table is very long, there should be some prioritization regarding which variables could/should be introduced. The research project is already finished, so this process is not urgent. Before suggesting specific names, I wanted to post this more general information and to ask whether there is any preferred procedure to follow now?