General Discussion

[muramasatheninja]

Hi,

Very excited to see this project. I wasn't sure the best way to contact you so I figured I would post an issue here.

I started on converting your hand drawn schematic.

The goal is to make a self contained board that would fit in a small enclosure.

Thanks

[wilhouse55]

amazing that you could find it! good job!

On Tue, Jul 25, 2017 at 4:18 PM, charcole notifications@github.com wrote:

I've managed to find the cause for the vertical jitter! :) Very long story short, the timer on the ESP32 doesn't seem to latch consistently unless you read the full 64 bit value (first the high 32bits then the low 32bits). The timer should only increment the upper 32-bits every 100 seconds so I didn't bother reading it in the original code. To read from the timer on the ESP32 you first have to latch it, then read the latched value. When only reading the lower bits the old value was sometimes read twice (ie. the latch didn't work or didn't happen before the read happened). This meant vsyncs were missed or extra vsyncs were detected causing the picture to jitter up and down. Adding nops between the latch and read caused it to be much more stable but pointlessly reading the upper 32-bits of the timer caused the jitter to go entirely. Couldn't find anyone else reporting it but I could believe it's a bug in the chip or the documentation.

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[charcole]

I did an interview with RetroRGB about this project if anyone's interested (https://youtu.be/mVedKqHTQaA). Unfortunately the video got a bit messed up but the audio is fine.

Also the SCART breakout I've received and tested. Intercepted colour channel is coming through a bit dim which I need to look at. I've attached a photo of it working with Lethal Enforcers.

[iCach0]

Really happy to see this moving forward so steadily. It was a pleasure to watch the interview with @retrorgb Looking forward to further development of this great idea.

[Catwashere]

Great interview, congrats @charcole!!!

[charcole]

I've just push a version3 branch. This is the new version I've been working on. I've just sent the files off to PCBWay but it's untested so in a separate branch for now. Got a bunch of improvements, including...

• 2 Player support
• Built in sensor bar
• Separate composite sync path
• Improved the overlay and video quality (hopefully)
• Lots more GPIO
• GPIO should work with arcade machines / 8-bit consoles with no external components
• GPIO ports have delay circuitry for fixing issues arcades with no calibration settings
• Built in programmer board so only need USB to serial adapter to re-program

Was a struggle to get it all to fit!

[iCach0]

I am so happy this is coming along so nicely. THANK YOU!

[Catwashere]

Congratulation @charcole great to see your are making big steps

[wilhouse55]

impressive. That's some nice work. I can't wait till it's ready to go. ml

On Wed, Aug 23, 2017 at 3:16 PM, charcole notifications@github.com wrote:

I've just push a version3 branch. This is the new version I've been working on. I've just sent the files off to PCBWay but it's untested so in a separate branch for now. Got a bunch of improvements, including...

• 2 Player support
• Built in sensor bar
• Separate composite sync path
• Improved the overlay and video quality (hopefully)
• Lots more GPIO
• GPIO should work with arcade machines / 8-bit consoles with no external components
• GPIO ports have delay circuitry for fixing issues arcades with no calibration settings
• Built in programmer board so only need USB to serial adapter to re-program

Was a struggle to get it all to fit!

[image: lcdzapperpro3_0_3d] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1968650/29636248-daf35b04-8847-11e7-94b6-ee13852fdcc2.png [image: lcdzapperpro3_0_3d_back] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1968650/29636247-dad00384-8847-11e7-9e2b-cddf58860e98.png

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[Benjamin-Carette]

This is so cool. Hope you will release it soon. I need terminator II arcade game so badly :-)

[charcole]

It's been a couple weeks so I thought I should give a new update. The new version3 boards got delivered last week and I've built one up. There were a quite a few problems with it so had to spend a few evenings debugging it. Therefore it's ended up with a bunch bodges to get all the features working. However checked it with the NES (LED and via controller port) and the Lethal Enforcers board yesterday and all the new features work now. Here's the completed board.

As you can see it's pretty busy now with ports on all sides which makes it difficult to fit it in a case. So next revision I'm planning to focus mainly on getting the form factor right. I also have some ideas of how to simplify the circuit and remove the trimmers. I'll probably update the schematic with the fixes but won't lay it out again as the footprints going to change (therefore don't use the PCB from the version3 branch if you are building your own). Next big update you see should be the new board revision.

[mnbrian]

I would be interested in getting one of these if they are available. Have you thought of selling a "kit" that just has the coded chip and a list of parts? I am in the USA, so I would be interested in the ntsc version

[charcole]

Thanks for the interest @mnbrian. My current plan is to do a complete product so not designing for easy hand assembly at the moment. I've moved mainly to surface mount parts (which are generally cheaper to buy and get assembled). A kit is a possibility but it's not my current focus, sorry. Don't worry, NTSC will be fully supported though.

[mnbrian]

That is okay if a completed product is available vs a kit.

Brian

On Sep 13, 2017, at 16:26, charcole notifications@github.com wrote:

Thanks for the interest @mnbrian. My current plan is to do a complete product so not designing for easy hand assembly at the moment. I've moved mainly to surface mount parts (which are generally cheaper to buy and get assembled). A kit is a possibility but it's not my current focus, sorry. Don't worry, NTSC will be fully supported though.

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[WingMantis]

Hi, I just signed up so I can join the conversation. Looks like it's coming along nicely!

Am I right that the video input is only needed so you can get composite sync from it and for overlay?

If so, using this on Dreamcast with VGA would be possible with a sync combiner. I think that's what the guy that was making DC guns was doing.

I know you are probably too far along at this point, but did you consider going with s-video instead? I don't know how bad those simple composite to s-video adapters are for picture quality, but s-video would give a better picture to the masses that aren't up for RGB mods, while still being able to handle composite only consoles.

[MacAddict81]

I'm interested in connecting this to my Dreamcast in a mobile situation (essentially a mobile arcade that fits into a messenger bag with an LCD projector on a tripod) where the box will be close to my Dreamcast, and the IR LEDs would need to be able to be mounted on a separate tripod just beneath the projected screen for tracking to work. Is it possible to replace the IR LEDs with a Wii Sensor Bar, or is the latest version dependent on the integrated sensor bar?

[charcole]

@WingMantis Welcome. Thanks for the comment. VGA isn't something I've considered. It's possible that it could work with the right adapter and software tweaks. The timing requirements are harder (line rate is doubled) but I think it could work. S-Video is pretty rare in Europe so I've not tested it yet. It should only be a matter of a small breakout board to run the Y component of the S-Video signal through the composite path of my device and then everything should work (only difference is the overlay won't affect the colour, only brightness). Component should also work similarly but again I haven't tested yet. It's all on my list of things to do.

@MacAddict81 Hello. Sounds an interesting project. Using a Wii Sensor Bar is fine if you want to do that, the integrated one is just a convenience. In the latest version it's easy to disable the built in sensor bar if you don't want it (just open the case and snip the wire) or take the front panel off and extend the wires if you do want to use it.

[charcole]

As a more general update. You may have noticed I've pushed some new work in progress files for the next revision (version4 branch). The boards have been manufactured and hoping to get them on Tuesday. I'm off on holiday the week after so I'll try my hardest to get it all built up so I can show the new version before then. I'm really hopeful that this will be pretty much the final design in the final case. I'm excited about it and looking forward to showing it off.

[wilhouse55]

this has been very exciting to watch develop. I'm amazed at the amount of time and dedication you've put into it. Very cool! regards wilhouse

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 6:27 AM, charcole notifications@github.com wrote:

As a more general update. You may have noticed I've pushed some new work in progress files for the next revision (version4 branch). The boards have been manufactured and hoping to get them on Tuesday. I'm off on holiday the week after so I'll try my hardest to get it all built up so I can show the new version before then. I'm really hopeful that this will be pretty much the final design in the final case. I'm excited about it and looking forward to showing it off.

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[MacAddict81]

@charcole Sounds great, I guess I'll just extend the wires of the existing sensor bar since that will be the simplest solution. I eagerly look forward to the final commits to the version 4 branch and would be interested in a version 4 PCB if you have any extra (I can pay via PayPal if it comes pre-assembled and programmed)!

[charcole]

I've received the version 4 boards. Pretty pleased with the mechanical fit and the new connectors (using RJ45 as they are cheap and so fast to make cables as it's just a crimp). I built one up before leaving on holiday but unfortunately I had some trouble with the ESP32 module. The flash on it seemed really flakey and randomly refused to program or run. What I saw I of the new board I was happy with it. However I needed to do some firmware changes to support the new layout which I couldn't get done because of the ESP32 problems, so I was unable to fully verify it. I'm hoping the ESP32 failure was down to using one of the really early modules which might be a bit hit and miss (just grabbed one from my parts draw).

Anyway, I promised an update so here's some pictures of it...

[wilhouse55]

Wow really looks professional. You've come a long way!  -------- Original message --------From: charcole notifications@github.com Date: 10/1/17 8:05 AM (GMT-06:00) To: charcole/LCDZapper LCDZapper@noreply.github.com Cc: wilhouse55 mark.locascio@gmail.com, Manual manual@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [charcole/LCDZapper] General Discussion (#1) I've received the version 4 boards. Pretty pleased with the mechanical fit and the new connectors (using RJ45 as they are cheap and so fast to make cables as it's just a crimp). I built one up before leaving on holiday but unfortunately I had some trouble with the ESP32 module. The flash on it seemed really flakey and randomly refused to program or run. What I saw I of the new board I was happy with it. However I needed to do some firmware changes to support the new layout which I couldn't get done because of the ESP32 problems, so I was unable to fully verify it. I'm hoping the ESP32 failure was down to using one of the really early modules which might be a bit hit and miss (just grabbed one from my parts draw). Anyway, I promised an update so here's some pictures of it...

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[mnbrian]

Looking really good. Once you have it working I would love to get a ntsc one.

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 1, 2017, at 08:48, wilhouse55 notifications@github.com wrote:

Wow really looks professional. You've come a long way! -------- Original message --------From: charcole notifications@github.com Date: 10/1/17 8:05 AM (GMT-06:00) To: charcole/LCDZapper LCDZapper@noreply.github.com Cc: wilhouse55 mark.locascio@gmail.com, Manual manual@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [charcole/LCDZapper] General Discussion (#1) I've received the version 4 boards. Pretty pleased with the mechanical fit and the new connectors (using RJ45 as they are cheap and so fast to make cables as it's just a crimp). I built one up before leaving on holiday but unfortunately I had some trouble with the ESP32 module. The flash on it seemed really flakey and randomly refused to program or run. What I saw I of the new board I was happy with it. However I needed to do some firmware changes to support the new layout which I couldn't get done because of the ESP32 problems, so I was unable to fully verify it. I'm hoping the ESP32 failure was down to using one of the really early modules which might be a bit hit and miss (just grabbed one from my parts draw). Anyway, I promised an update so here's some pictures of it...

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[Monomo74]

Hey man just signed up just for this. You are doing a great job. Been following your work for about 2 months now. Just want you to know that I want one of these as soon as it hits the markets. Keep up the good work enjoy your holiday and i cant wait for the next post. I got 1 question. Will this work with the R.O.B. unit? I know its very similar to the Zapper. Just wondering

Monomo

[pasey25]

I just joined to comment. This is amazing work. Happy to buy when available. I'm holding onto a big CRT to play my NES zapper games and would love to get the space back.

[RisingPhoenixEntertainment]

Commented on another part of your post. I am extremely interested in your project, especially once commercially available, or possibly to help you test out compatibility with newer systems, light guns, and possibility of integrating it with a project of my own. I would love to talk to you about it!

[charcole]

Thanks for the comments everyone, they really do help keep me motivated. I'm back from holiday so you should start to get updates again soon. As a preview though, I've already built a second version 4 board and rewritten a good chunk of the firmware to support it. I haven't done the full set of tests on it yet but already feel quite happy with it. As always, I did find a small issue with the board (which was actually in version 3 also) but it's easy enough to fix. Really feel like it's coming together now. The next set of updates are probably more likely to be firmware related than big new board revisions.

@Monomo74 Interesting thought. Looking at information online, it does seem like R.O.B should work with it. However I'd be surprised if R.O.B didn't work with modern TVs anyway as the timing is less critical (the lag shouldn't matter).

@RisingPhoenixEntertainment Happy to chat to you about it. Probably best if you send an e-mail to cdcfoscam at yahoo.com. I don't tend to check that account much (just an old account that I don't mind being spammed) but I'll look out for your message.

[RisingPhoenixEntertainment]

@charcole Email sent, thanks so much!

[MacAddict81]

@charcole I'm guessing from the recent pictures you posted that V4 is meant to completely replace the original console's light gun (specifically, the picture of the NES controller cable plugged into the RJ45 for Player 1) and use the Wii Remote for input as well as position tracking? Is that true for all the supported systems (e.g. the Sega Dreamcast, and Sony PlayStation 2)? Or is there still going to be a mode that uses the Wii Remote for position tracking and an LED in front of the sensor for the console light gun as in V2 and the proof of concept? Because I've been modeling a casing to hold the components of the Wii Remote and Dreamcast InterAct Starfire in Fusion 360 under the assumption that V4 worked in a similar fashion to V2. I haven't had anything printed yet, so there's still time for design changes, but I've already invested in internal components for three.

[charcole]

@MacAddict81 Don't worry, nothing's changed. You can still use it in both modes of operation. 1) Complete replacement, play games like they were on the Wii 2) Strap a wiimote to the side of a gun, attach LED to barrel and calibrate for a more authentic experience

The two modes work on the same hardware and are just different cables. Interesting you brought this up as I was just messing around with Fusion 360 for the first time this morning. Was seeing if I could make a bracket to attach a Wiimote to the side of a Zapper. Your one sounds awesome though!

[MacAddict81]

@charcole Once I'm done, I'll trade you one for the Dreamcast for a finished V4!

[MacAddict81]

@charcole Here's a preview (sorry they're upside down):

[charcole]

@MacAddict81 Looking amazing! Good job! I think that's more than a fair trade for a version 4.

Almost embarrassed to show my 3D printing work after seeing that! :) As a change of pace I decided to have a go at making a bracket to hold a Wiimote on a Zapper. Not very pretty but pleased it actually worked (even on my very crappy 3d printer). The friction fit on the Zapper was better than I could have hoped for so got pretty lucky. Currently two pieces glued together as was quicker to test that way. Will combine and make a holder for the LED then share it.

[wilhouse55]

That's amazing.

I have the Time Crisis series for the playstation (2 and 3 I believe). Is there an easy way to connect the wimote to those guns?

Some company is going to see what you're doing and realize there's a market for it and buy you out! wilhouse

On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 5:24 AM, charcole notifications@github.com wrote:

@MacAddict81 https://github.com/macaddict81 Looking amazing! Good job! I think that's more than a fair trade for a version 4.

Almost embarrassed to show my 3D printing work after seeing that! :) As a change of pace I decided to have a go at making a bracket to hold a Wiimote on a Zapper. Not very pretty but pleased it actually worked (even on my very crappy 3d printer). The friction fit on the Zapper was better than I could have hoped for so got pretty lucky. Currently two pieces glued together as was quicker to test that way. Will combine and make a holder for the LED then share it.

[image: 7ac8dd64-7cc9-410c-9207-c261bd8875b7] https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/1968650/31583893-1c17ebe6-b19b-11e7-9768-86b75809467a.jpg

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[rowie4life]

I have the Time Crisis series for the playstation (2 and 3 I believe). Is there an easy way to connect the wimote to those guns

Ultimarc AimTrak lightguns will let you play PS2 lightgun games on a LCD/Plasma TVs, you can buy them on ebay.com. It's says, on the listing, that it works on PC, PS2 & PS3, but I think it's only works with PS2 games on the PS3.

[wilhouse55]

Those things are $100 each! I'll wait for charcole's unit! wilhouse

On Sun, Oct 15, 2017 at 10:52 AM, rowie4life notifications@github.com wrote:

I have the Time Crisis series for the playstation (2 and 3 I believe). Is there an easy way to connect the wimote to those guns

Ultimarc AimTrak lightguns will let you play PS2 lightgun games on a LCD/Plasma TVs, you can buy them on ebay.com. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Ultimarc-AimTrak-Arcade-Light-Gun-for-MAME-Win-PS2-PS3-/192131191424?epid=9005095810&hash=item2cbbe95280:g:V1YAAOSwSlBYyea4 It's says, on the listing, that it works on PC, PS2 & PS3, but I think it's only works with PS2 games on the PS3.

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[MacAddict81]

@charcole Sounds wonderful, I guess we can workout the logistics of the trade via email. And thanks for the compliment, I'm just a Fusion dabbler, and am still learning. I'm planning on powering the internalized Wii Remote off of the 5V that the Dreamcast console provides to the controller, and stepping it down to 3.3V with a small circuit... I've had to manually hollow out the internal structure in sections, because the outside shape is too complex for the shell command in Fusion 360 to deal with, but once I'm done with that I'm going to mockup the internal components from both devices and play around with placement (a high DPI scanner, a decent dial caliper from eBay, and the Attached Canvas/Calibrate Canvas commands can really be your friends with this). My email is mac_addict81 at hotmail dot com for anyone who has input on my design, comments, suggestions, encouragements, or just to say hello.

[reynoirjr]

This is brilliant. You could sell Beta's as a funding option, maybe not full pretty beta's but options so folks can get their hands on the product while investing in the final product itself.

[charcole]

Hey everyone. You might notice I've pushed the latest firmware to support the version4 and merged it to master (as it's now the best version of the design). I'll be doing a 4.1 shortly to fix the issue I found the other week and to add a new small feature I experimented with this weekend. There should not be any really big changes to the design from now on however.

One big change that should be in the next update though is a new name! LCDZapper was always just a placeholder when I uploaded the original design to github. This isn't what I want to launch the product as though. My current favourite is LightGunverter but if anyone has a name they think is better then please let me know :)

This weekend I've mainly be working on something that'll I'll keep as a surprise for now. I have a proof of concept but not got it completely working yet so I won't talk about it just now. Second issue, I've been thinking how to fix over the last week or so, is setting the white level detection threshold. I tuned it for composite video but it was too high when using some other video standards. To support every possible standard (and things outside of standards) it's now user adjustable via the Wiimote. The hardware change is minimal and I've modified a board and tested it already.

[wilhouse55]

Lightgunverter is good but a bit clunky. Lightgunner?   -------- Original message --------From: charcole notifications@github.com Date: 10/22/17 1:34 PM (GMT-06:00) To: charcole/LCDZapper LCDZapper@noreply.github.com Cc: wilhouse55 mark.locascio@gmail.com, Manual manual@noreply.github.com Subject: Re: [charcole/LCDZapper] General Discussion (#1) Hey everyone. You might notice I've pushed the latest firmware to support the version4 and merged it to master (as it's now the best version of the design). I'll be doing a 4.1 shortly to fix the issue I found the other week and to add a new small feature I experimented with this weekend. There should not be any really big changes to the design from now on however. One big change that should be in the next update though is a new name! LCDZapper was always just a placeholder when I uploaded the original design to github. This isn't what I want to launch the product as though. My current favourite is LightGunverter but if anyone has a name they think is better then please let me know :) This weekend I've mainly be working on something that'll I'll keep as a surprise for now. I have a proof of concept but not got it completely working yet so I won't talk about it just now. Second issue, I've been thinking how to fix over the last week or so, is setting the white level detection threshold. I tuned it for composite video but it was too high when using some other video standards. To support every possible standard (and things outside of standards) it's now user adjustable via the Wiimote. The hardware change is minimal and I've modified a board and tested it already.

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[Splosion]

GunConverter, though that's kinda platform specific :)

[iCach0]

I'd call it "The Gunslinger" 8^) Although that name is probably already registered for something else.

[MacAddict81]

Hmmm. Maybe "ActionGunplay" for a product name?!?

_{Sent with GitHawk}

[WingMantis]

@charcole LCDZapper is pretty good, and it seems that Nintendo has dropped their trademark on Zapper. I did a couple quick searches on USPTO trademark website, not 100% sure though.

But LCD is a single specific technology, people with plasmas and DLP tvs, etc. might not immediately connect that with their setup, and zapper is very much linked with Nintendo in peoples memory. Some might assume it only works with Nintendo systems, especially since it uses a Wiimote.

Here's a few ideas:

"Retro Gunner+HD" (can drop the +, or change to > to signify adaptation/conversion) "Gun Gamer HD" (can add markups to spice it up)

These can be followed by a descriptive byline, such as "universal light gun console/controller adapter" etc.

You can thank me with a freebie if you go with one of these ;)

[mikelietz]

Legacy Zapper.

[charcole]

Thanks for the suggestions everyone! Please keep them coming :)

The two main criteria for the name are... 1) Be fairly obvious what it does 2) Easily Google-able and .com domain available

As @WingMantis pointed out, there really should be a prize for naming it. If I use a name then that person can definitely have a free one.

HD is something I was trying to avoid. LightGunHD works but I was worried to play up the HD angle too much when there's nothing HD about the device itself (it only processes and outputs SD).

@Splosion GunConVerter is what led a friend to suggest LightGunverter. Great minds must think alike :) As you say it's maybe too platform specific and Googling returns a lot of results about real guns which isn't ideal.

@WingMantis Interesting about Zapper not being trademarked. I was thinking of Zapper Adapter (Zadapter is fun but maybe too cryptic). However, I was concerned about giving Nintendo lawyers any reason to be involved. Zapper is platform specific but also iconic so I think it works.

[kahhar]

Retro Light Gun to Flat Panel (you could replace 'to' with '2').

[wilhouse55]

http://frs.badcoffee.info/hardware/lightgun_adapters.html

On Mon, Oct 23, 2017 at 6:10 PM, kahhar notifications@github.com wrote:

Retro Light Gun to Flat Panel (you could replace 'to' with '2').

— You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/charcole/LCDZapper/issues/1#issuecomment-338822808, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AcUSoDIpMn7r_R1F5bfSpMpsv5vwhq1cks5svRzjgaJpZM4Jx2MQ .

[WingMantis]

@charcole Are you going to try for a trademark?

how about "LED Bullet" and "The universal light gun adapter"

I searched the trademark database and there was a security camera company that registered the term LED Bullet in 2001. It was abandoned in 2011. But trademarks can be registered by other companies in unrelated fields of business.

There is someone cybersquatting on ledbullet.com trying to sell it for $2500 but led-bullet.com is available for $13 through whois.org and I like the separation better, more readable. Might be able to get cheaper or more bonuses through other domain registrars

EDIT: Actually I should have said "are you going to register a trademark". Think it costs about $500 every 4 or 10 years to maintain. You can add "TM" after any brand names you make up without registering, but you can't use the official R inside a circle.

[muramasatheninja]

@charcole

So glad I posted my quick schematic. It was the only way to get a hold of you that I could find, and now it's turned into a great source of updates and discussions which I never expected. I went ahead and sent you an email at the address you listed before. I'm interested in seeing if I can help with producing or selling these.

[tron999]

Just wanted to post and offer my support. I'm really interested in buying one of these boxes from you. Please let the community know if we can help you!