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christophe-rd / fuelinex

Fuelling Next Year's Tree Growth with Carbon and Nitrogen
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Warm Fall Treatments - when to move in the plants? #9

Open christophe-rd opened 2 months ago

christophe-rd commented 2 months ago

@lizzieinvancouver @wangxm-forest @DeirdreLoughnan Since someone wants to use the biochambers for another experiment, we need to reserve them! I don't know exactly when we will move the plants in the chambers, but I thought they could go in 1-2 weeks before the leaf start their senescence (I will need to do some readings to estimate this).

Just so we are sure to have them for the beginning of the treatment, how does September 1st to November 30th sound?

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

@christophe-rd I think we should see what @FrederikBaumgarten found for his species last year -- @FrederikBaumgarten could you please post your estimated 25% senescence dates for species by control and most relevant other treatment to compare to @christophe-rd experiment?

(FYI, someone usually wants the chambers so we always need to reserve them, ideally 6 months in advance.)

FrederikBaumgarten commented 2 months ago

@christophe-rd I think we should see what @FrederikBaumgarten found for his species last year -- @FrederikBaumgarten could you please post your estimated 25% senescence dates for species by control and most relevant other treatment to compare to @christophe-rd experiment?

(FYI, someone usually wants the chambers so we always need to reserve them, ideally 6 months in advance.)

-> I haven't analyzed this dataset yet, but can give you some rough estimates of 25% of senescence start: Acer macrophyllum: doy 262 Betula papyrifera: doy 250 Prunus virginiana: doy 250 Quercus garriana: doy 270 Note that shade considerably delays senescence. In my case this is already visible if I compare outdoor vs. greenhouse saplings. So to summarize, 2. week of september first species showed visible loss of canopy greeness.

Just before I left I send a mail to Shannon with Christophe in copy to reserve the chambers in autumn (I think pretty much the timeslot you propose here). But maybe with the change of the responsible person this got obscure...

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

Thanks @FrederikBaumgarten ! Sounds like perhaps we should request from 15 August and I would toss in two extra weeks to make sure whoever has them in the summer is out and we have time to clean them if needed so 1 August to start ... @christophe-rd Can you remind me of the goal of the treatments that need the chambers in the fall? Then we can decide on how late to ask for them for.

christophe-rd commented 2 months ago

Thanks @lizzieinvancouver and @FrederikBaumgarten!

@christophe-rd Can you remind me of the goal of the treatments that need the chambers in the fall? Then we can decide on how late to ask for them.

We want to delay leaf senescence to give the trees extra days to grow. I will need to read and think more about this, but I doubt that we need the chambers for a very long period. I agree to ask them for earlier. How does August 1st to November 30th sound?

lizzieinvancouver commented 2 months ago

How does August 1st to November 30th sound?

Pretty good! But now I realize that we should ask @FrederikBaumgarten when senescence wrapped up (last 75% or higher)? We need that to know how long delaying may take ...

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

@christophe-rd Me and @FrederikBaumgarten were discussing issue #14 and realized we should perhaps time the nutrient boost with the warm fall treatment ... so we should decide when to start warm fall. Options are based on budset or SPAD (and do it species-specific, mirrors the spring design but some species may not have the stage such as SEGI) or pick a calendar date (1 September) for all ... @FrederikBaumgarten likes 1 September (or very early September). I could go either way ... do you have a preference?

If we're equivocal we could pick early September since that will be after most of the Mount Rainier field work!

christophe-rd commented 1 month ago

@christophe-rd Me and @FrederikBaumgarten were discussing issue #14 and realized we should perhaps time the nutrient boost with the warm fall treatment ... so we should decide when to start warm fall. Options are based on budset or SPAD (and do it species-specific, mirrors the spring design but some species may not have the stage such as SEGI) or pick a calendar date (1 September) for all ... @FrederikBaumgarten likes 1 September (or very early September). I could go either way ... do you have a preference?

If we're equivocal we could pick early September since that will be after most of the Mount Rainier field work!

I think this was the initial plan. There are actually 2 nutrient boost treatments: CoolSpring/CoolFall and WarmSpring/WarmFall, so one will have an extended growing season and the other won't.

That brings me to something else. I agree that we want to mirror the spring design, but as a reminder, the WarmSpring treatments have stayed at Totem. I believe we don't want to do this for the Fall treatment. We want to move the WarmFall treatments into the chambers, right?

If so, yes, I think early September should be fine.

Also, what is SPAD?

christophe-rd commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver should I email Alyson to confirm the chambers will be reserved for us?

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

@lizzieinvancouver should I email Alyson to confirm the chambers will be reserved for us?

Yes! And I think we especially need to finalize with her when we promise to be OUT of the chambers.

lizzieinvancouver commented 1 month ago

That brings me to something else. I agree that we want to mirror the spring design, but as a reminder, the WarmSpring treatments have stayed at Totem. I believe we don't want to do this for the Fall treatment. We want to move the WarmFall treatments into the chambers, right?

Yes! We don't want to flip the fall treatment, just do the treatment as planned.

Also, what is SPAD? It's a way to measure greenness, there should be one around the lab ... I saw @FrederikBaumgarten with it last.