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citation-style-language / schema

Citation Style Language schema
https://citationstyles.org/
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Add a type: video #95

Closed fbennett closed 4 years ago

fbennett commented 12 years ago

At least two major styles alter the form of citation to multimedia items depending on the mode of distribution. We currently distinguish between "broadcast" and other forms of distribution. Adding a "video" type would extend that distinction to cover theater releases vs video distribution (or non-distribution).

For Chicago, Elena notes that Chicago places the title first in the cite for theater releases, but not for videos. This would be directly addressed by adding a "video" type:

http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/12507/film-and-chicago-style/#Item_4

For Bluebook: A Uniform System of Citation (R), the form of citation to video items varies radically depending on a dog's breakfast of factors; but the hardest distinction to handle, within the current framework, is that between a theater release and a private video. Examples given include:

(It doesn't show up here, but "Airplane!" is set in small-caps as for a book, while "Installing Your CLS-2009" is set in ordinary roman type.)

To discriminate between these two forms when they share a common motion_picture type, we either need to turn the distinction on the presence of a "medium" (Videotape here), or on the type of creator (Paramount Pictures vs Emily Weiss Electric Co. here). Neither approach is satisfactory, unfortunately. In the first case, it is possible that a "medium" will be present in the metadata for a film (Panavision, Superscope, etc.). In the second case, Emily Weiss Electric Co. could be set as the "author" rather than the "publisher" (reasoning that the item is unpublished, and so should not have a publisher). That distinction is not intuitive in the UI, however, and requires complex code in the CSL to produce correctly formatted output.

Adding a "video" type would simplify the CSL for both of these cases.

rmzelle commented 12 years ago

Fine with me.

See also http://forums.zotero.org/discussion/23249

bdarcus commented 11 years ago

This issue does need work, but I don't ATM support this particular solution.

A video IS a "medium."

To think through this, I think we might want to take a single example like your Airplane! one, and consider three different media or formats:

  1. film
  2. VHS videotape
  3. streaming MP4
bwiernik commented 4 years ago

This distinction seems pretty absurd, but could reasonably be accommodated by testing for medium in motion_picture. I don't think that "Superscope" would be recorded under medium; that isn't information that would appear in citations ever. Additionally testing for URL and DOI would distinguish theatrical releases from things like YouTube videos if these somehow didn't have a medium field.

I suggest we close this.

denismaier commented 4 years ago

I'm not sure here. I have just checked what Turabian says on this and they distinguish between movies and other similar items. For one, the director is the primary contributor for movies, TV stuff gets cited by title. Fo videos and podcasts they use the artist as the primary contributor. Each item can have medium and/or URL variables. These don't seem to work as indicators here. But I'm not sure a type video would completely solve the situation.

bwiernik commented 4 years ago

TV shows is broadcast anyway, so that's a different issue if anything.

Regarding the others, that's just a question of whether the item data contains author vs director, no?

denismaier commented 4 years ago

Regarding the others, that's just a question of whether the item data contains author vs director, no?

It could be both.

denismaier commented 4 years ago

I'm not sure here. I have just checked what Turabian says on this and they distinguish between movies and other similar items. For one, the director is the primary contributor for movies, TV stuff gets cited by title. Fo videos and podcasts they use the artist as the primary contributor.

Actually not true what I was saying here: Movies are cited by title, then director and actors. Artists as primary contributor for videos and podcasts is true.

Beyoncé. “Sorry.” Directed by Kahlil Joseph and Beyoncé Knowles. June 22, 2016. Music video, 4:25. https://youtu.be/QxsmWxxouIM.

Dr. Strangelove, or: How I Learned ..., directed by Stanley Kubrick, featuring Peter Sellers ...

Hmm, how are artists currently supported? At all?

bwiernik commented 4 years ago

Artist that is the primary creator is author. Secondary creator artists not currently supported, but will be the new performer variable (they are rarely cited; only in some styles like Turabian/Chicago when the specific contribution of the actor is being referenced).

bwiernik commented 4 years ago

It could be both.

So, the music video there has author: Beyoncé, director: Joseph || Kahlil, and director: Knowles || Beyoncé. The film has director: Kubrick || Stanley and performer: Sellers || Peter.

bdarcus commented 4 years ago

I've always strongly opposed this request, and my thinking hasn't really changed.

Did your thinking change from your first post here, or you two just thinking through how to address different cases with the status quo

bwiernik commented 4 years ago

(I am opposed to adding video.)

bdarcus commented 4 years ago

+1.

We can close this then :-)