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ck2plus / CK2Plus_Rewrite

Home of the complete rewrite of the CK2Plus Mod
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Change Cultural Setup Europe #22

Open ghost opened 5 years ago

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

(Porting over the existing suggestions)

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

Split Latin(Gallo-Romance):

  1. Gallo-Romance (French, Norman, Arpitan)
  2. Occitano-Romance (Occitan, Catalan)

But because they have somewhat cultural ties with their old groups, Catalan later gets a small opinion bonus towards Iberian, and Occitan a small opinion bonus towards Gallo-Romance.

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vepsians

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

Hmm @daniloy should we maybe add one or two more cultures to Iberian? With the loss of Catalan it's kinda empty. And there would be options: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Linguistic_map_Southwestern_Europe-en.gif

(Leonese & Aragonese, to be precise)

ghost commented 5 years ago

dokay, then do I not need to rename Castillian into Spanish.

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

Finno-Ugric should have Samodeic split off (as explained in the other issue). Hungarian can actually be a non-singular culture group.

Finno-Ugric

Magyar

Legend: "+" denotes existing Plus culture "*" denotes suggested new culture "?" denotes an undecided candidacy "->" denotes a renaming suggestion "[ ]" denotes an alternate name for clarification, which need not be changed to "#future" denotes cultures planned for inclusion after the map transition, when more parts of the map are visible

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

I'd keep both suggested cultures here, that is Székely and Mari. The Mansi would be dropped (they were not meant to be immediately added anyway).

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

So first, could we add Galician to northwest Iberia? And second, would it be possible to create events in the game to cause a split between Galician and Portuguese (around the 12th century)?

ghost commented 5 years ago

So first, could we add Galician to northwest Iberia? And second, would it be possible to create events in the game to cause a split between Galician and Portuguese (around the 12th century)?

It seems to diverge in the late 14th century a, bit too late for us.

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

It seems to diverge in the late 14th century a, bit too late for us.

Hmm, from my reading it seems like Portuguese and Galician cultures diverged starting around the 12th century with the political separation of Portugal and Galicia, and by 1290 Portuguese was viewed as its own language, with the founding of the first Portuguese university.

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

I also think it might make sense to simply rename Portuguese, as it wasn't even known as Portuguese for a very long time, and Galician makes more sense as a name given its origin in Galicia (Portugal didn't exist as a political entity until the 12th century).

ghost commented 5 years ago

Okay, I want to hear out Peter too . If he is fine, go ahead with it.

schwarherz commented 5 years ago

Sounds like a good idea to me, but we might want to leave Portuguese in and just add Gallician as the culture for that area until later in the game (maybe using an event for the split?). Renaming a culture is a bit of a pain when it comes to testing and the like. But I'll likewise wait for @LordPeter s input.

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

Besides the ongoing discussion of the Galician topic, it looks like all the changes mentioned in this issue have been implemented.

What other changes, if any, would we be looking to make for European cultures?

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

Also, would it make sense to rename "Siculo-Greek" to "Griko"?

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

I'm surprisingly skeptical about the Galician/Portuguese split, considering the number of cultures I have and wanted to split. Still, we already have added 2 new cultures in the Iberian area, so that's that. Wikipedia at least is a bit vague on the whole thing, especially when the split occurred. But in the end, I am not against adding Galician and splitting it from Portuguese (as schwarherz said renaming is problematic), and 1290 (Port. university) or 1296 (adoption by Port. Royal Chancellary) sound reasonable as dates. So if you want, make it so.

Also agree on the Griko thing, though that could be just in localisation.

I don't think there are any more changes planned for Europe (apart from Russian in the east, if that hasn't been done yet).

questionmarkexclamationpoint commented 5 years ago

Would it make more sense to have Portuguese split off from Galician? Given that the culture started in Galicia (geographically and politically), and Portugal didn't exist as a political entity until much later.

ghost commented 5 years ago

Also, would it make sense to rename "Siculo-Greek" to "Griko"?

Leave it as it is for now.

LordPeter commented 5 years ago

It would make sense to start with Galician. And right, I thought about it wrong: We can just put Galician on the map, and have Portuguese develop off of it. Was kinda stuck thinking that we would have to rename Portuguese for some reason (which would be bad because of the large mismatch between code and localisation).

But yeah, I would also prefer it that way then.

ghost commented 4 years ago

This is finished I guess?