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clementine-player / Clementine

:tangerine: Clementine Music Player
https://www.clementine-player.org/
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Sidebar top label is superfluous #389

Closed Clementine-Issue-Importer closed 10 years ago

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 10, 2010 20:31:08

It actually just duplicates selected tab at the bottom.

And if you remove it and leave just a toolbar (for Internet tab too!) the sidebar will align nicely with the playlist view :)

Original issue: http://code.google.com/p/clementine-player/issues/detail?id=389

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 10, 2010 16:05:07

It does serve a purpose! You can drag it to move the whole thing around, and even dock it with another edge of the window.

But, I think I'm the only person who even realises this, let alone uses it... :) Maybe if I could make the tabs draggable instead...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 12, 2010 00:59:23

... what.

How the hell long have you been able to do that??? No one would ever assume that the top part is drag-able, I'd go for the tabs if the idea of moving stuff around had ever crossed my mind.

That said, I think the fact that it's never been mentioned by anyone, nor has anyone brought up the thought of moving panels around says two things: the current set-up is good enough that people don't need such a fancy feature (the only reason people clamored for it in amarok 2 was to make it look... well, like clementine does now), and that people will certainly not notice this feature either disappearing or being applied to the tabs instead. Either way, I'd axe the top labels. The search bars not lining up with each other is bugging me more than I like to admit, and if you feel passionate about the modular panels idea, you really should move it to the tabs. Your interface really doesn't need such a feature though, trust me. Unless you really like it.

This is coming from a person who only uses the library tab, though, so I'm biased. If I had my way, I'd save the minimal vertical space and only have a library pane, no tabs or title bar. And I'd replace the new playlist search bar with a ctrl-f popup search. Precious vertical space! But what do I know? :P

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From solomonov.v on June 12, 2010 02:23:22

I agree with previous comment. It's really hard to notice this feature. I think that default Clementine interface is good (much better than Amarok1 and Amarok2 inteface), and doesn't need to be changed. I think that now the best way is to make option in preferences dialog to turn on/off and set it default to off.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 12, 2010 02:32:18

What? An option whether to show a label? Are you an options maniac? :)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From solomonov.v on June 12, 2010 03:35:34

No, I mean an option to turn on/off dragging elements of UI.

I'd go for the tabs if the idea of moving stuff around had ever crossed my mind. I didn't noticed this before. Moving this fuctionality to tabs seems to be better solution than mine.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 12, 2010 09:40:05

Honestly though, there isn't much need for an option. The way he coded the feature makes it completely un-intrusive, unlike in amarok 2 where switching on the modular design adds big borders and close buttons atop each section. As such, if this was currently an option, we wouldn't be able to tell the difference between on and off (without trying to drag something). So yes, I don't think an option is really necessary. Now, if one wanted the feature to be promoted to be seriously used, I guess I'd make it an option, but make it more obvious the thing is on. That would require "uglifying" the player with extra buttons when using this step, so I don't know how worth it this is. It might be kinda fun to just keep it a "secret" :P

But we're veering off topic. The point of this specific issue is the top bar, so I'd reiterate that the best solution I can think of is to remove it, and if deemed useful, make the tabs the drag-able element. Which is certainly a compliment, I think it's nice when people are satisfied enough with an interface to not want to change it. It's up to David, of course.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 12, 2010 12:32:32

This issue was updated by revision r1133 .

It looked like it was going to be too difficult to make the tabs themselves draggable - the draggable dock widgets are actually a Qt thing and they're not very customisable. So instead I've just removed the top label all together.

Status: Fixed

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 12, 2010 14:37:53

It seems you've missed the second part of my idea - about always having a toolbar at the top of sidebar, for Internet tab too. That would make all three tabs more 'coherent' :) You could've placed "Add another stream" button there for Internet tab, for example :)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 12, 2010 17:14:10

Ah yes I did miss that - that'll teach me to skim read the comments :p Reopening so I don't forget

Status: Accepted

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 12, 2010 18:08:21

Hm. The search bars next to each other looks more odd than I thought it would. How would the tabs look if they sat on top? That way they're replacing the title bar. I guess it just looks odd without the title, but I think the tabs would make sense up there now. It puts the search bars in different vertical positions, but I think it would be all right.

(Honestly, I think the right search bar looks big and weird, but amarok had one, and I can't really argue it away (you could technically make it something like a popup ctrl-f type search, but people would probably complain about it not being as convenient). I'd love to hear your thoughts on it, though)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 13, 2010 02:09:50

@himyname... Don't forget that you can create several playlists and they will also have tabs ... at the bottom

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 13, 2010 14:23:28

I never noticed, I don't make use of playlists.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 14, 2010 09:44:46

On second thoughts I'm tempted to leave the Internet tab how it is already - if I did add a toolbar it would be pretty empty: all services - add stream button last.fm - add tag/artist, configure somafm - refresh channels magnatune - search, configure That's 1-3 buttons on the toolbar for everything except Magnatune. The Magnatune search bar already appears when you've clicked in Magnatune in the tree. I think it would look weird when there's so little there. I'm open to suggestions though.

@himyname... (seriously how can I abbreviate that? :p zacH?) The tabs do look a bit better on top actually ... I'm a bit scared to change it though, people might be used to looking for them at the bottom. On the other hand having them at the top is more "normal", and it's actually useful to have them in a different place to the playlist tabs - to make it clear they're for very different things. We need a GUI designer...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 14, 2010 12:30:30

Well, then maybe it's better to 'leave out' toolbar for Internet tab.

As for tabs at the top - those are indeed more "normal" (even though I have them on the right side in Opera and at the bottom in Firefox :) ). But then probably playlists tabs should also be at the top - just to keep the consistency.

Yeah.. having a GUI designer would be helpful..

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 14, 2010 15:44:18

Left side and playlist should have the same size, we could use the free space on the left for cover art. Tabs should go up, because its where tabs usually are and they aren't really able to replace labels if they are at the bottom. The "Clear Playlist"-Button belongs to the other buttons which manipulate playlists. I'm not sure if the main controls look better on the bottom or at the top (like amarok2).

Attachment: clementine.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 14, 2010 16:22:43

Oooh yes, I like the look of that :)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 14, 2010 23:07:02

I actually like that a lot, as well... especially is the playlist tabs continue to not take up space when i'm not utilizing them. I've actually really wanted to suggest just having the cover art in the bottom corner, but for that to fit nicely in the area under the left pane it would have to be pretty large, and therefore take up a lot of vertical space. This seems like a good idea, but there's something about it that feels odd to me. After some thought, I think it's the fact that the proposed widget of sorts bleeds into the bottom toolbar area. It feels really weird to me seeing all the intersecting lines there on the bottom. Does that make sense? I can explain it more, if necessary. Perhaps a separate issue/report should be filed for something like this.

The picture does confirm that tabs on top looks damn nice, though. Should we go for it?

I wish I was good at computer-y art. I'd love to be UI designer, I feel like I've made a lot of general layout suggestions already, but that's sorta different. Oh well, I'm glad to help in any way I can.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 14, 2010 23:09:59

Oh, and zach is fine :P

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 14, 2010 23:22:29

especially is the playlist tabs continue to not take up space when i'm not utilizing them This would break the idea of "Left side and playlist should have the same size". Besides if a single tab is visible too it will be much easier for new users to get the idea that there can be several tabs. (I personally discovered that after accidentally clicking "New playlist" button - I thought it will just clear the playlist)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 15, 2010 06:14:00

This would break the idea of "Left side and playlist should have the same size". Yes, exactly as it is now, and exactly how amarok classic did it. http://moan.comoj.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/amarok-3.png What's the issue? I don't know how large your screen is, but my vertical space is pretty precious to me on most computers I use. I can only imagine how much a forced tab would bug someone running clementine on a netbook. Anyway, why would the new playlist button clear the playlist if we have a dedicated button for exactly that? Do you want the button changed to "new tab"? Should it open a new one with ctrl-t? Would that make it simpler for you?

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 15, 2010 08:07:36

You missed the point. I did not say it's difficult for me or something. Only that it is not quite obvious (to the new users) that there could be several playlist tabs if none is visible.

As for me, personally I don't mind any of the options above.

I just think that 'live' UI (sliding-out toolbar when selecting Magnatune, appearing playlist tabs when creating a new one, etc.) are confusing and un-intuitive. Especially for newbies.

I can only imagine how much a forced tab would bug someone running clementine on a netbook. Come on, you don't 'read' playlist as, say, web page in a browser. Vertical space is hardly so 'precious' when speaking about audio player. 25 lines instead of 26 on the screenshot you're referring to is not such a big deal, IMO. But yet again - it's not the point. I'm almost neutral to having no playlist tabs by default :)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 15, 2010 09:10:27

I'm glad you all rather like it : P So let me first sum up on what we agree on: Tabs should be on top and including cover art is a good idea. himyname, I understand what you mean. I'm not happy with the bottom of the mockup either. I just was to lazy to rearrange all the elements down there. As I said above moving the player controls up might work, I will try some things tomorrow.

About always showing the tabs or not: I have no strong opinion on this. Always having the tabbar if you dont use it sucks, but hiding it won't look that good. Again: Pictures coming tomorrow : P

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 15, 2010 14:40:42

Come on, you don't 'read' playlist as, say, web page in a browser. Vertical space is hardly so 'precious' when speaking about audio player. I'd make the point that the above screenshot is decidedly not a netbook setup, but obviously the point is moot. More than anything my opinion is preference, and for some reason I'm the only person with a strong opinion on this issue. There are currently two easy ways to make a new playlist, depending on opinion it might behoove us to rename it to "new tab" (possibly keeping "save playlist", since "save tab" sounds weird), at which point there is no confusion, visible tab area or no. It's decidedly because I don't take advantage of such features, but in the end it obviously won't be up to me.

Looking forward to more pictures from Julian :)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 16, 2010 09:24:10

New pictures! I cleaned up the...well lets call it the control area (play/pause/next+ visualisations+slider+volume). There is still a ugly free space below the main controls (play/pause/next). Maybe we just could make the buttons bigger or put something else there...we'll see. I'm not happy with the statusbar because it wastes vertical space and we don't have much status to show anyway. I added a picture showing the main controls placed above the playlists and the library (like amarok2). I don't like it. I also made pictures showing both layouts without the tabbar. Contrary to my prediction it doesn't look bad. In fact it looks better than with the tabbar : P Oh, and I moved the repeat and shuffle buttons up in the playlist toolbar so all buttons to manipulate the current playlist are in one place.

Attachment: bottom.png top.png bottom_notabs.png top_notabs.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 16, 2010 09:43:20

I would have made the side bar full height. IMO, "main controls" should be closer to the playlist (they work upon).

And what do you think of placing album cover and track info at the bottom of the sidebar? Vertical space in the sidebar is usually even less "precious" then in playlist. And you could have made artwork bigger. Something along the lines of MediaMonkey (and a bunch of other media players): http://tweakers.net/ext/i/1223399633.jpg (playing track title, etc. could be placed below the cover image)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 16, 2010 09:56:09

Here is a quick and dirty mock-up of what I meant

Attachment: mock-up.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 16, 2010 10:32:56

(and here is my foobar2000 setup - http://habreffect.ru/8f0/3edafcdc2/foobar2000.png - for the "vertical space" inspiration ;) )

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 16, 2010 11:33:55

I was afraid to do that because if the song got no proper coverart you have a giant empty space there or a placeholder. And it does consume a giant amount of space in the library. But having a bigger coverart is indeed tempting...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 16, 2010 11:34:39

I've gotta say I still like your first screenshot the best Julian. There's something a bit odd with the layout of the others where you've separated the track slider from the status bar.

I'm thinking:

I'll have a go at implementing some of these changes now so you can have a look and see if you like them.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 16, 2010 11:48:34

I know what you mean with odd. I thought it was just because I'm so accustomed to the old interface. But the odd won't go away. I can't await the new interface : P

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 16, 2010 12:01:27

@davidsansome You forgot about moving shuffle / repeat buttons to the top toolbar :) Or you don't like that idea?

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 16, 2010 12:35:01

I'm undecided about those shuffle/repeat buttons - I liked them at the bottom because that's where they were in Amarok, and the buttons at the top are more to do with managing multiple playlists (new, load, save, etc.) Although I guess the search bar has nothing to do with multiple playlists and that's up there too!

Convince me!

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 16, 2010 13:18:21

The searchbar is also manipulating the playlist by removing all tracks not fitting the words you typed. Its only temporary but it counts : P My rational about the buttons was to group them together as much as possilbe because at the moment they are everywhere. But you are right. Shuffle and repeat are a other type of button. Will you move the "clear playlist" button up? Its almost the counterpart to the new playlist button and should be near. Btw: Wouldn't a "delete playlist" button makes sense as we have a new playlist button?

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From 2sabio on June 16, 2010 13:24:28

To my understanding they are not quite 'status' to be on the status bar (unlike busy indicators, playback position, track count)

Besides corresponding menu items are in Playlist menu between Add ... and New playlist

And if you'd like to separate them from playlist manipulation controls you might even consider placing them on the other side of the search bar :)

/ if that is not convincing enough - I give up :) let them stay on the status bar

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 16, 2010 20:44:22

Hm. I dunno. I'm definitely sold on these things, given the stellar mockups:

I'm not sold (possibly even opposed to) moving the playback slider out of the status bar. I wish there was another attractive place to put it, but I can't see a good place at all. I guess normally it would take some sort of focus, like in a player like winamp or itunes, but those players have a more balanced focus (as in, somewhat symmetrical... itunes has a sidebar, but the top bar has the track info dead center). I feel that until a truly epic idea for a playback slider position/redesign is suggested, we should keep it in the bottom. As such, it would be very weird to move the playback buttons to the top, so those should probably stay where they are. I know I sound like a total downer, squashing these ideas, and the next one isn't going to start super positive either, but please hear me out.

I've been wanting to suggest putting the coverart in the bottom corner for a while, but I wasn't sure of the best way to implement it. 2sabio actually has a good idea here, but I'd take his mockup one step further: If we can print the now playing track info OVER its coverart (scaling to horizontal size, of course), I think we'll really have something. I don't think the current implementation of a now playing widget is able to convey much more information than before while staying, for lack of a better word, sexy. 2sabio's is much more effective in this sense, and with just a little work, will look super nice.

I'm terrible with image editing, but I did the best I could. My mockup is below: this puts the playback slider back in the bottom bar, making the bar far more necessary than in the mockups which move it up (and saves us some space by not increasing the size of the bar above it). I kept the widget above the bottom bar (I think this is CRUCIAL, the way the player is using the widget in svn looks very odd when the player isn't using it... the left pane should always sit atop the bottom bar, not cut into it. This is VERY IMPORTANT for looks). Finally, I moved the song info on top of the coverart. I did this in a very simple manner, as I don't know a better way to depict it quickly in gimp, but I think maybe having the albumart fade to black near the bottom, and placing the track info over that faded part would look VERY sexy. I would like feedback on this. Another two important things: art will need to scale to horizontal resize (text will probably have to shrink or enlarge as well, and scrolling might be useful), and a song with no art should definitely show the clementine icon. I'd actually say to make this toggle-able (on and off), but maybe with a mouse-over button rather than a preference setting.

As for talk of moving buttons off the status bar... I'm pretty sure I was the first person to even call it that. It never had much indicator of status in the first place, and it serves a multitude of functions. Let's just leave the buttons where they are, they don't have much to do with the playlist buttons we're trying to couple them with. I would agree with 2sabio about moving the clear playlist button up, though.

David, your thoughts?

Attachment: mock-up_alt.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 16, 2010 20:54:25

Sorry, the clear playlist thing was julian. Doesn't change my agreement, just clarifying.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 16, 2010 21:05:27

One last thing that I don't feel I explained properly: where most players would generally put their slider is next to the playback buttons (itunes, exaile, probably some others). This would make sense, but since we've got our super-awesome-excellent visualization going on right there, it makes total sense to me to put it right where it currently is.

Also, David, I think you seriously tightened up the space on either side of the slider in svn recently, and it looks much nicer now. Excellent.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 17, 2010 08:35:16

Is having the left panel overlap the bottom bar really that bad? I quite like it - now it really looks like the "playing bits" are separate from the "browsing bits". Plus it means the now-playing widget can line up with the bottom of the playlist when it's visible.

I'll move the clear playlist button up to the top - it was at the bottom originally because I'd gotten used to it being there from Amarok 2, but I remember it was at the top in Amarok 1 :)

As for the big-cover-mode, what do you think of these mockups? The second one is mimicking what iPod/iTunes does - I'm not sure if it looks out of place here. Maybe the third one looks better, using the background and text colours from the system theme.

One last thing, I want a context menu with an option to turn off this widget completely (someone's bound to complain eventually), but I can't decide where to put the option to turn it back on after it's been disabled - there seems to be no logical place in the settings dialog/menus for it to go.

Attachment: bigcover1.png bigcover2.png bigcover3.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 17, 2010 10:55:53

I like your first picture the most because the other two options waste some space. The third one looks best though. As for the option: You could rename the "notifications" tab in the settings to "appearance" and put it there. Or you could let the library end above the statusbar so a click on this part of the bar brings up the widget.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 11:39:31

The current widget does line up with the bottom in its current implementation, but the big cover one definitely won't (and if made to scale on resize, in many cases it definitely won't. I feel like when the widget (current or proposed) is not activated, the player looks off-balanced without the bottom bar running throughout... I'm also still of the mind that we will want that extra area at the bottom left later for any other status messages or the like (and the progressbar, however briefly, still does run down there when scanning, yes?). I really do feel we should keep the bottom bar running all the way across.

As for the mockups, I think I like the first one best. The other two have a classy look to them, but they also have a lot of empty space around them. As I was saying before, if we have that area fade slowly to black, top to bottom (basically only really getting black as it reaches where the text is), I think you'll really have something classy. Also, the art does look freakin' huge in the first one, so perhaps a small system-colored border would be a good idea. I'll try and make a mockup to illustrate my points.

As for where to add the toggle... let me think about that one.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 11:43:02

Whew. Okay, forgot to post that comment while I was "mocking". Hope you guys like it, this took a while. I really like having that bottom bar stay full, I know it looks bare as-is, but there will be a use for it.

Also, I agree with Julian on re-naming the notifications tab.

Attachment: mockup_2.png

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 11:50:02

I didn't pick a very good cover to show it, but I did the fade to black on the bottom. Hopefully it's visible...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 16:20:45

r1205 looks really nice, the fade came out great. A few points (what a surprise):

Please do consider the bottom bar readjustment. If anything, I'd appreciate it (not that it's a great reason to do anything).

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 17, 2010 16:33:23

Yeah, your idea looks a lot better than I thought it would :) Done in svn - you can right click the small cover to change it to show a large cover.

I still disagree with you about being above the status bar though. Nautilus's left pane extends down into the status bar and that looks good :) There's plenty of room left in the status bar for progress messages - they replace the playlist size summary thing when they're showing, and the playback slider will shrink to make room if they need more.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 17, 2010 16:36:46

Oops I started writing that before you replied. How about I add a checkbox in the context menu for you, "Show above status bar"?

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 17, 2010 16:49:59

More options, really? Don't let Clementine end up like KDE4 and Amarok2 did... Every option makes your job harder.

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From Julian.Held on June 17, 2010 16:51:56

Looks nice btw : P Could you try making the coverart the same hight as the with? It looks a bit too high somehow...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From davidsansome on June 17, 2010 17:15:13

Your bottom slice of bread is back in r1209 :) Julian - don't worry, it's just a little checkbox hidden away in a context menu - I won't make a habit of adding them!

The coverart should be exactly square unless you make the sidebar too wide, in which case it limits the height to stop it looking daft.

I like the clear playlist button on top too :( I might move it back if nobody objects too strongly...

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 19:15:18

eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

It looks so good! I hope I never have to ask for such a tiny, silly "feature" again, sorry about that (I definitely don't want to contribute to making this player bloated, contrary to my shameful begging just now...). Thank you very much for the option. My clementine sandwich looks delicious :P We're going to have to take some new screenshots for the main page, for when .4 rolls out, what with all the swanky graphical changes this time around...

(by the way, did you just guess the font I used in the mockup? You seem to have copied it almost perfectly!)

Clementine-Issue-Importer commented 10 years ago

From himynameiszacHandiamapirate on June 17, 2010 19:44:18

shuffles back shamedly

... I have one more tweak to ask for. Would it be possible to leave a border on the bottom (and possibly the left) of the large cover art, the same width as the bar you added on top? I think it'll look nicer with the small border, but it might just be the ambiance theme not having a proper border. Totally up to you, just was looking at my mockup again.