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clld / phoible

PHOIBLE Online
http://phoible.org
Apache License 2.0
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Combining X Below #18

Open nardog opened 5 years ago

nardog commented 5 years ago

Non-IPA symbol Combining X Below (U+0353) is used in some consonants and vowels. It seems as though it stands for frication, but this is neither sanctioned by the IPA nor standard or common. I suggest it be replaced with whatever appropriate according to the description of the sources.

drammock commented 5 years ago

You are correct, it is not part of the official IPA. In fact there are several symbols used in the PHOIBLE dataset that are not part of the official IPA. Most of them are documented here, though we just pushed out a major release and the conventions webpage has not been updated since then (but will be soon).

With regard to your suggestion that we replace U+0353 with "whatever is appropriate according to the description of the sources" --- well, the reason we use that diacritic is because we believe the official set of IPA symbols and diacritics is not sufficient to adequately capture the variety that is present across the roughly 3000 inventories in PHOIBLE. If there are specific language descriptions where you think our use of U+0353 is unwarranted given the description of the sounds in the cited reference, we welcome you to open issues or pull requests on the development repository to call our attention to it.

nardog commented 5 years ago

Drammock, thank you for your reply and the link to the documentation. I would argue that it could be replaced by symbols officially sanctioned by the IPA in many cases, but that might entail some amount of subjective interpretation of the literature, which I understand is best avoided.

So long as the value of each symbol is defined, I see no problem using non-IPA symbols. But I don't see a link to or a copy of the documentation on the online version (phoible.org). I think there definitely should be one, is there reason why it's not there?

drammock commented 5 years ago

Your initial message made me also realize that the documentation is not prominent from the main website. @xrotwang is there any difficulty in adding a couple static HTML pages to the phoible.org domain?

On April 6, 2019 8:11:31 PM AKDT, Nardog notifications@github.com wrote:

Drammock, thank you for your reply and the link to the documentation. I would argue that it could be replaced by symbols officially sanctioned by the IPA in many cases, but that might entail some amount of subjective interpretation of the literature, which I understand is best avoided.

So long as the value of each symbol is defined, I see no problem using non-IPA symbols. But I don't see a link to or a copy of the documentation on the online version (phoible.org). I think there definitely should be one, is there reason why it's not there?

xrotwang commented 5 years ago

Nope, that's simple enough. Let me know which ones you want and linked from where.

Daniel McCloy notifications@github.com schrieb am So., 7. Apr. 2019, 09:55:

Your initial message made me also realize that the documentation is not prominent from the main website. @xrotwang is there any difficulty in adding a couple static HTML pages to the phoible.org domain?

On April 6, 2019 8:11:31 PM AKDT, Nardog notifications@github.com wrote:

Drammock, thank you for your reply and the link to the documentation. I would argue that it could be replaced by symbols officially sanctioned by the IPA in many cases, but that might entail some amount of subjective interpretation of the literature, which I understand is best avoided.

So long as the value of each symbol is defined, I see no problem using non-IPA symbols. But I don't see a link to or a copy of the documentation on the online version (phoible.org). I think there definitely should be one, is there reason why it's not there?

— You are receiving this because you were mentioned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/clld/phoible/issues/18#issuecomment-480567911, or mute the thread https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA1HKD9qV3ygqLQKdJbj8JeY49n1HfE4ks5veaRZgaJpZM4cgS_T .

drammock commented 5 years ago

Great. Once @bambooforest and I have updated the docs I'll ping you about where to put them.

On April 7, 2019 12:01:44 AM AKDT, Robert Forkel notifications@github.com wrote:

Nope, that's simple enough. Let me know which ones you want and linked> from where.>

Daniel McCloy notifications@github.com schrieb am So., 7. Apr. 2019,> 09:55:>

Your initial message made me also realize that the documentation is not> prominent from the main website. @xrotwang is there any difficulty in> adding a couple static HTML pages to the phoible.org domain?>

On April 6, 2019 8:11:31 PM AKDT, Nardog notifications@github.com wrote:> Drammock, thank you for your reply and the link to the documentation. I> would argue that it could be replaced by symbols officially sanctioned> by the IPA in many cases, but that might entail some amount of> subjective interpretation of the literature, which I understand is best> avoided.>

So long as the value of each symbol is defined, I see no problem using> non-IPA symbols. But I don't see a link to or a copy of the> documentation on the online version (phoible.org). I think there> definitely should be one, is there reason why it's not there?>

—> You are receiving this because you were mentioned.> Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub> https://github.com/clld/phoible/issues/18#issuecomment-480567911, or mute> the thread>

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AA1HKD9qV3ygqLQKdJbj8JeY49n1HfE4ks5veaRZgaJpZM4cgS_T> .>

-- > You are receiving this because you commented.> Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub:> https://github.com/clld/phoible/issues/18#issuecomment-480568373