Project logo

[bbatsov]

It'd be really nice if we had a proper project logo Obviously I don't have the skills required to create a decent logo, otherwise I would have done it by now :-)

I'm turning to cider's users, who might have some sense of art and the skills required to create a good looking logo. :-) I'm thinking of something that has ties to cider, Emacs and Clojure, but alternative suggestions are also welcome. Perhaps a bottle with some purplish liquid (reference to Emacs) in it and a sticker inspired by Clojure's logo?

Please submit your ideas here. In case we get several nice suggestions we'll have a vote for the "official logo".

Thanks in advance to everyone who decides to help!

[timvisher]

FWIW, (teach me to try to comment on an issue with me 2 year old slapping at the keyboard :), as an American Cider makes me think of a cold or hot drink served in a regular cup or in a mug respectively. Hot cider is often served with a cinnamon stick in it which is what the square bracket was supposed to be reminiscent of. Anything in a glass with a tall stem and narrow bowl 'is' champagne, and anything in a mug is 'beer', even if that beer is hard cider of some kind.

That said, I don't think I've heard a single person who didn't think it was a straw, so I'm opting for a different way to work a vector in there.

Maybe the biggest problem with all of our submissions at this point except for perhaps some of the more photo-realistic ones which I don't think work quite as well as logos, is that the contents of the drink currently looks uncomfortably close to urine. Not really sure how to fix that. :\

[andrewmcveigh]

the contents of the drink currently looks uncomfortably close to urine

Not sure I see that as a problem. One's only a quick trip through the body away from the other! ;)

[andrewmcveigh]

Variations on the theme... incorporating clojure/emacs colors.

Slightly de-emphasized the tops of the square brackets, as per @timvisher 's suggestion. Also tweaked the 'stache a bit. Maybe thickening it up helps?

[timvisher]

@andrewmcveigh :+1:

Still not sure I like the stache enough to incorporate it in my own design, but it's much better than it was, IMO.

[lambdatronic]

I'm really liking all this back and forth dialogue. Tim, I like where you've been going with the logo, but I'm missing the curly brace now in your recent examples. Perhaps you could try using the curly brace for the handle and the vector as the base. While I like the simplicity of Andrew's design, I think the parens are underemphasized given their status in the language.

My 2c, ~Gary

[timvisher]

@lambdatronic Agreed on the parens in @andrewmcveigh's design. I don't think I see a good way to incorporate curlies into my design, but if you see it feel free to sketch it out or something! :)

[lambdatronic]

Alright, Tim. I'm sorry to expose you to my incredibly poor design skills, but this is the idea in my mind. It incorporates parens, vectors, and curly braces with the emphasis on the parens. I also think the squared-off base gives it a more robust look, particularly appropriate for hot mulled cider or a hard cider in a pub. I'm from Vermont, so we drink quite a bit of this stuff around here. ;) It would be awesome to see this design with your most excellent text and font choices.

~Gary

[timvisher]

@lambdatronic Thanks for the picture! (It's worth a thousand words :)

I see what you mean about the square base. It's really the curly handle that throws me. It doesn't look comfortable to hold and thus doesn't make me think of a mug. I might play around with it nonetheless.

[timvisher]

OK. I had this idea as a way to incorporate the curly into the design. I've been wanting some form of steam ever since I started but was coming up short on my ability to draw it. Now, chopping a curly in half, I get what I think is a nice little steam effect atop the mug!

[andrewmcveigh]

Allow me to justify my "underemphasised" parens... ;-)

There are three things at play here: Emacs, Clojure, and Cider the drink. If I try to rank these elements in order of importance, to the logo/branding I get 1st Cider, joint 2nd Clojure/Emacs.

That means to me, that above all, the cider must be the prominent icon, and it should resemble cider, possibly at the cost of parens. And, although parens are obviously a very strong common theme in both elisp and Clojure, they are neither more important than the cider, nor are they the most important thing about elisp/Clojure. They are just very notable for their presence.

Having said that, I thought it a great idea to try to incorporate parens/square/curly brackets into the glass, as an obvious nod towards their notability. To me though, that doesn't mean that it should be so obvious that the design of the logo is literally made of parens (at the cost of good looks), unless you were to go for some real ascii art.

Secondly, I'd just like to offer a trans-atlantic opinion on cider having steam. It shouldn't. It makes no sense to me as a native of the British Isles, and a resident of continental Europe.

P.S. @timvisher I'm afraid that the steam on your latest iteration has it looking even more like your feared urine-in-a-mug.

[timvisher]

@andrewmcveigh I really like your design justification. :) I think your logo makes much more sense than mine in the european context.

Also, point taken about the steam. :) I think if the color were slightly more orange/red/brown (like Hot Cider would be here) it would look less like urine to me. I'll play with that today maybe.

I'll try to resist saying it again, but I think this will be confusing across the atlantic if a drink is the logo. Neither side will see what they're used to seeing when they think of cider.

Maybe we should be exploring apples of some kind. :)

[bbatsov]

@timvisher @andrewmcveigh Or a bottle :-) Bottles seem less neutral to me. A bottle with Clojure's logo might sit somewhere in the cider text. There was one similar idea already.

[timvisher]

Be confused, my european friends, be very confused. :)

[timvisher]

@bbatsov I think the unfortunate point would be that if we went with a bottle, Americans would be just as confused, because they'd wonder for a bit why the logo was a beer. After a little, they'd probably think to themselves, 'Oh, Hard Cider'. But it would be confusing nonetheless.

[lambdatronic]

As an American (and a Vermonter who lives in the land of apples), let me point out that we drink cider in three (3) ways here:

1. Chilled cider in a glass or mug
2. Hot mulled cider (with cinnamon, allspice, and cloves) in a mug
3. Hard cider (alcoholic) in a stout bottle a bit shorter than a beer bottle

@andrewmcveigh Thanks for your clarification on why you prioritized certain symbols the way you did. I very much like the simplicity of your design and that it contains parens, brackets, and braces very elegantly. The Cider and Clojure elements are quite clear. Could you perhaps explain the Emacs component of your logo?

@timvisher The half-brace steam isn't rubbing me the right way, but I suspect we'll get something that works in a few more iterations here.

@bbatsov The bottle idea might emphasize cider, but the only kind we have in a bottle in America is hard (alcoholic) cider. I suspect it is more likely to make people think of beer (or possibly wine). Also, I can't think of any way to incorporate the delimiter characters into a bottle logo. I suspect the mug is the more general purpose symbol here.

[timvisher]

I modified the curly steam a bit and I think it looks much more balanced. It's also way less obvious that they're curlies. :)

[bbatsov]

Noone has proposed anything new in a while so I think it's time for us to finally select a winner. So far I liked the most @timvisher's and @andrewmcveigh's suggestions. Visually I like the mug a lot, but I think that for the sake of everyone in Europe we should try to avoid a strong reference to "hot cider".

Personally, I feel that if we strike some middle ground between the two designs that would be perfect. @timvisher AFAIK stateside there's also "chilled cider" that's non-alcoholic and is served in regular glasses, so I'm thinking that if we use a rectangular glass the American users are likely to think it's either "cool cider" or "hard cider" (which is fine either way) and European users will likely assume it's hard cider. Does this sound sensible?

[bbatsov]

@timvisher @andrewmcveigh Ping :-)

[andrewmcveigh]

@bbatsov Sorry, must have missed you last update, I've been on holiday.

I agree with your conclusion, not sure where we go from here. I've also wondered about @lambdatronic 's question about my logo representing emacs a bit more clearly. For me emac's lisp was the link, but there's no decernable difference between parens in Clojure or Emacs. Maybe emacs in the text is enough? Maybe we need a bigger clue in the logo itself?

[lambdatronic]

@andrewmcveigh You're probably right. It's challenging to iconify emacs without the gnu...

I wonder if a gnu could be drinking a glass of cider! So something similar to @andrewmcveigh's piece but make the mustache (curly braces) into gnu horns, and just put a gnu face above the mug. There you go. Cider. Tasty Clojure for Emacs.

[timvisher]

@bbatsov What are the final target sizes for the logo?

@andrewmcveigh What are you working in to produce your logo? Have the source available? I'd love to see it with text incorporated.

[bbatsov]

@andrewmcveigh @lambdatronic Adding a gnu would be touch too much I think :-) I guess mentioning Emacs somewhere in the logo text will do. As @timvisher we should try to keep the logo simply, so it looks good in smaller size.

@timvisher The sizes I can think of are:

• README width
• Square icons without the text - 32x32 to 256x256 should be enough I guess
• A favicon

[andrewmcveigh]

@timvisher I'm working in Illustrator, I can provide my work in progress file in .ai format, or something else like SVG/EPS if you need it. Let me know what's best? Haven't uploaded the source anywhere yet.

[tapeinosyne]

The current candidate pool is a bit pauce; so far, we only have variations of one idea. I think it would be wise to post a call for entries in the Clojure mailing lists before making a decision. (It should be a legitimate topic of interest for users, given nrepl/CIDER's popularity in the Clojure community.)

With that said, I am contributing the following.

First, a variation of my first proposal that adjusts the stem to more closely resemble a beer/cider glass. (I think that the best take on the theme so far is @andrewmcveigh's; I am posting this for the sake of variety.)

Second, a new variation of parens-as-mug: the complete name with a cider caret contained by the pseudomug. I think it works quite nicely.

Third, a new proposal based on the Emacs and Clojure logos. (It was done quite hastily, but the principle should be clear.) The logo on the left uses full colors and the same exact gradients as the emacs logo; the logo on the right is Clojure's with cider colors in a soft shade; the one in the middle is a hybrid of sort, with a very light gradient. It might be possible to add a significant replacement of the Emacs pen in the relative logo.

Fourth, a somewhat more daring new proposal: a vaguely parenthetical apple. I had originally tried to draw a partial fruit based on a left parenthesis and a curly bracket, but after a few minutes the idea seemed to work rather poorly (you can see the abandoned sketch here). This variation has a similar principle, but privileges the shape of the apple as it “pours” cider between the verticals of two letters.

[dgutov]

@ndr-qef Variations 2 and 4 look pretty damn cool. And they can actually work as logos.

[bbatsov]

@ndr-qef I really like option 2 - simple, yet elegant. I'd also love to see a version of the third logo with some text in it. The final version is a bit too bold for my taste, but I guess others might like it. Take the time you need to refine your ideas. I hope that in a week or two everyone would have submitted final variants of their ideas and we'll be able to pick an official logo.

[timvisher]

@ndr-qef Just be advised that the clojure logo itself is copyright to rich hickey and I've never seen anyone get official permission to use it. I've also never seen anyone get in trouble for it, but, you know, law and all. :)

[andrewmcveigh]

So, admittedly stealing the best bit of @ndr-qef 's pseudomug, and jamming it unashamedly (well, maybe a bit of shame) into my best effort, I present...

[timvisher]

@andrewmcveigh :+1:

Although I would use a real C for Cider, but this is your best one yet, IMO.

[andrewmcveigh]

@timvisher Thought so too, but then I'd leave unbalanced parens. Paredit would kill me.

[andrewmcveigh]

So for the real C... don't think it's there yet though.

[timvisher]

Love it. Much better than the original. I agree that there's something just a bit off about its balance, but I can't put my finger on it. :)

[dgutov]

@andrewmcveigh You might want to lose the mug handle altogether. I don't think it's working.

[shepmaster]

I'm in favor of the "new variation of parens-as-mug" from @ndr-qef. It is streamlined, it has the LISP-y ness, it has the notion of a beverage. :beers:

[bbatsov]

@ndr-qef @timvisher @andrewmcveigh If anyone would like to submit an update of his work, please do so in the next week or so. I'd like us to do the logo vote after the holidays.

[AlexBaranosky]

Hi folks, late to the party here.

I've read through this entire thread and the entire time I've been very worried about what appears to be a clear difference in the meaning of the word cider across different cultures; I worried this would make developing a logo really difficult. Where I am from, cider would 95% of the time mean unfiltered apple juice, often with cinnamon. Around the holidays it is served hot in a mug. However clearly, a lot of the world sees cider very differently.

Which brings me to my vote. I'd like to vote for @ndr-qef's second logo, because it is one of the few that is beverage-agnostic, and still brings in the lispy-ness and looks pretty sharp. I'm sure with a few more tweaks it could look even better, too.

[lambdatronic]

I'm also in favor of @ndr-qef's second logo, but I really like @andrewmcveigh's curly brace mustache as well. Why not just throw that mustache on it and call it a day. Clean, legible, lispy, beverage agnostic, and gets all the Clojure delimiters in one go.

[tapeinosyne]

Given its popularity, I now consider the pseudomug my “official” candidate. Here are a few variations just to see if we can find a font that works best; if you think we have a clear winner, I will polish up that version for final submission.

Typefaces used are, in order of appearance: Hermes, Proxima Nova Soft (as seen before in this discussion), Bariol. Hermes would perhaps be the most suitable, with its monospacey letterforms, but there is the non-trivial issue that I do not actually own the font and have made this with outlines. Bariol would be my second choice.

I considered adding a curly brace, as @lambdatronic suggests, but I am not quite persuaded: the curly brace–mustache pun is not too clear to my eyes, and I think that adding more elements for the sake of completeness would overdo it. The pun works best if we keep it simple.

@bbatsov, are you sure that you don't want to ask for entries in the Clojure user group? Not that a logo is exactly a matter of pressing importance for a community project, but you might still want to consider asking more people for input.

[bbatsov]

I guess it's time to the vote. Everyone can cast two votes for two different logos. I'll announce the winner on Monday evening, based on the results by then.

My votes are for @ndr-qef's logo (variant 1) and for @andrewmcveigh's logo.

[krisajenkins]

I vote @ndr-qef. The fact that you can type it is awesome. :-) Variant 3's my personal favourite.

[malk]

I +1 @ndr-qef 's (this one https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/399#issuecomment-31616169 ) specially variant 3 in that post

[edbond]

variant 1 of @ndr-qef is really nice https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/399#issuecomment-31616169 i doen't looks like l and logo will be readable when small. :heart_eyes:

[mpenet]

+1 for @ndr-qef (3rd one)

[daveliepmann]

+1 for @ndr-qef, any of the three, but I like the third (Bariol). Simple, typeable, looks good, conveys the message.

[bzg]

+1 for lambdatronic's version!

[AeroNotix]

+1 for @ndr-qef's version 3.

[jjcomer]

+1 for @ndr-qef's version 3 as well

[lukerandall]

+1 for @ndr-qef version 3

[karls]

+1 for @ndr-qef version 3.

[zerokarmaleft]

+1 for @ndr-qef version 3 followed closely by @ndr-qef version 2