ImprovedTube for Safari

[TienTim]

May I publish this ImprovedTube on the App Store as a Safari extension on Mac and iPad?

[ImprovedTube]

welcome @TienTim! can install it manually today: https://github.com/code-for-charity/ImprovedTube-for-YouTube/issues/494 . We should especially financially. And make it free to test to fix bugs but later self-sustain by some subscription fee and accepting Apple as the money, ,even they keep a lot of commission, but still bring users who will accelerate our whole development. Yet for today hardly keeping up with the chrome version, feeling responsible for the 500 000 users who are there already (while App Store might take a while to reach many users. Yet double digit % of our users are using Chrome on MacOS)

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube Can I distribute it for free to test?

[ImprovedTube]

Hi :) @TienTim one by one or with an app store account?

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube Of course, people who want to install the app from the app store, no matter that it is free or priced on their Mac, need to have an Apple ID. That's all what they need beside of the OS version requirement, the next steps of the installation are quite simple, even the automatic updates in the future.

[ImprovedTube]

of course

🥳 yes, sorry (many people in our repo stay users-only)

Whats your account? @TienTim Wonderful, publishing a free pre-version would have been better/ all the meantime,

• since we can transfer it anytime at need apple.com/appstore/transfering-an-app

  • and/or depending your future commitment you could even manage a paid subscription version too (that is in case you are even enrolled to the lower 15% fee for small sellers, while forwarding all earnings to big charity against hunger and/or to funding our bugs (through bug bounties with issuehunt or gitcoin or so)
    
    (as said in #494,) a long term optimum, might be a free tester-link in the repo etc., but small subscripion fee in the store as long as we have no funds and as long as there is extreme poverty

• Thank you!

[ImprovedTube]

@TienTim 👋

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube Do you mean my Apple ID that is also my developer account? Or do you just want the app ID in the App Store?

[ImprovedTube]

@TienTim i understood you are volunteering to manage our project's AppStore presence for the time being.

[TienTim]

Of course. I'm glad to volunteer for this task.

[ImprovedTube]

hi again,

• just had a look and was surprised you uploaded it before already? 😮 when? (/Did you first come here to pass appstore review/copyright?😁 thought we'd discuss more / on discord or anything.) You participated in onlinejudge.org competitions before? ( https://github.com/TienTim/Online-Judge )

  • Why didnt you post a (free) link here first of all? in #494
    • Price: $0.99?
  • you published (only) one more app? (an adblocker subset of features, called "Enrich Y-uTube experience"?)
  • yay, custom preview images🎈(besides when different to webstore, it looks like a pirated version)
  • "Version 1.0?" (should use the same version numbers as our repo. If anything was fixed for Safari specifically, it might also be better for everyone)
  • "Improved Tube" We only used two titles yet to be found "improvedTube" hard to remember or 'Improve Youtube!' (more descriptive/intuitive)

[TienTim]

• This app already had the copyright acknowledgement inside. I published about one week, it's initial free. I just tried to solve some dozen questions of onlinejudge.org .
• I posted a (free) link in https://github.com/code-for-charity/ImprovedTube-for-YouTube/issues/494
• I just tried to price it on the day before yesterday it to see how peope interested in it. It's free now (take about one day to update price).
• I published one more app that is my own work, so far I do not use any line code of ImprovedTube.
• Is the preview images ok?
• "Version 4.0.1" in app now
• You cannot change its name from "Improved Tube" to 'Improve Youtube!' because of metadata policy violation, YouTube is a favourited app that you cannot include it in your app name or subtitle.

[ImprovedTube]

Thanks! :) & sorry for confusion please add our email as a user granting all permissions to the app & analytics

can we also publish a tester-/gift-link specifically? (to remain in place (static in different locations, even if we make it paid later)

photos look good (we can just make sure somehow that people know it as an official version.)

i think the name could include the word Youtube https://apps.apple.com/nz/app/auto-enhancer-for-youtube/id1585777234?mt=12 (not required) both names can appear in the description at least to be found 'Improve Youtube!' (ImprovedTube for Youtube™️)

I just tried to price it on the day before yesterday it to see how peope interested in it. It's free now (take about one day to update price).

ohh interesting. I guess nobody noticed yet. We can show it to our Apple users and wait at least until there are 5000 daily users in Safari (and try hard tha few bugs remaining for any browser). At that point we can switch to $x/year to make the project self-sustain for the first time.

[TienTim]

I've alredy sent invitation for user improvedtube@gmail.com.

The subtitle is changed to 'Improved Tube for YouTube' in the new version

[ImprovedTube]

Thanks, you can still give all roles & permissions, but limit it to the one app.

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube I added your role permission as much as possible, cannot become the admin because it only has that role for all apps.

No, that was definitely happened after you replied "🥳 yes, sorry ..."

[ImprovedTube]

hey @TienTim

Just uploaded the first big update since several month to the repo latest @TienTim you can upload it (Wont ask often 😆)

many fixes... Thanks again!

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube Ok, got it.

[ImprovedTube]

Fantastic! 🤩

[ImprovedTube]

...thanks again @TienTim aand the version had two bad new bugs preventing scrolling😆
sooo release 4.4 (or newer)

maybe we could automate building/updating in future? https://github.com/marketplace/actions/apple-xcode-staple

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube Ok

[yrmuq]

Hello, in Safari 15.6.1, EXT 4.4, didn't work screenshot button, its just download 16 KB empty file, missing pip button and many many more didn't work properly, is it normal for safari now?)

[ImprovedTube]

hi @Yrmuq! yes, little to no testing done with this version. Yet first 1000 installations are in and we gotta get started. Please rate it 5 stars just so that people keep even noticing. Will add the word BETA TESTING to the description.

Disabling both buttons by default in Safari https://github.com/code-charity/youtube/blob/background.js#L38-L50 (assuming you have an uptodate Safari)

• also gotta find an easy way to build...

---

@TienTim there was another bad bug😳 from a pull request, that make several popular features mysteriously unreliable. (so we got got 4.2 stars only) . AND Now there also are ~8 new features.
So wish you can upload one more time.

[TienTim]

@ImprovedTube OK. I've done

[ImprovedTube]

🥰

[ImprovedTube]

Hi! @TienTim how have you been? would you mind to upload the current repo master once again? https://github.com/code-charity/youtube/archive/refs/heads/master.zip

(as several bugs were fixed & and the Version a serious amount of users & daily installations by now)

/ can we automate this?

[ImprovedTube]

hi @TienTim!! <3 Can you update the Appstore once again? Didnt wanna bother you too soon, but of course the maintenance fixes matter and we dropped from 4.5 to 4.2 stars.. (every release matters and every commit (even if some commits might better be tested for a few day)

• the appstore version is doing well, so we should attempt 1. more stars & 2. selling.

  • do you want to apply for the reduce appstore fee? And forward future earnings to charity & or as bug bounties?

---

automate

automation

wishing to get a OSX VM, and offer building extensions to everybody (fantasy)
(and/or the packaging might be reverse engineerable)

---

PS: searching again how to upload photos :D (wanted to add those from the chrome webstore listing too. and the current 3rd one isn't relevant)

(deleted your previous comment by accident🙈)

[TienTim]

I will update the app to newest version accordingly. Is Appstore fee reduction that you mean the Apple small developer program? If it is correct, I've already applied successfully. App earning schedule should be decided by you. No problem for comment deletion, but you should avoid deleting other people's opinion except those are not appropriate.

[ImprovedTube]

hi @TienTim, aand, oh wonder, there were some bugs with the update (+ new options & features were added in the last 2 weeks) - so the next Safari update will again be worth it to many people.

avoid deleting

yes, just meant to delete mine posted twice

Btw, hope your own extension was sold a few times, slowly increasingly, but maybe not? just posted this thinking of it https://github.com/code-charity/youtube/issues/1762 (the feature's author is gone)

---

PS: searching again how to upload photos :D (wanted to add those from the chrome webstore listing too. and the current 3rd one isn't relevant)

*... https://appstoreconnect.apple.com/apps/1672777754/appstore/macos/version/deliverable maybe only you have permission to upload/edit those here?

[ImprovedTube]

hi @TienTim! :)

• A lot happened once again so that its sad not to update Safari to the latest version https://github.com/code-charity/youtube/archive/refs/heads/master.zip.

  • planned to make a script on an Apple server soon to automate updates. (unless any long-term apple user wants to try this faster?)

• are you renewing your app-store account?

  • shall we try already making updates paid ( maybe $8/year in usa & $5 in other countries ) ( = do you want the job to pass on the 85% to developers on GitHub (minus your working hours), or shall we change the app store owner first?)

  thanks for all!!

[TienTim]

Hi @ImprovedTube,

Do you want me to update app to the lastest version or change the app store owner and you will do by yourself

[TienTim]

Hi @ImprovedTube,

The app is already updated to version 4.505.

[ImprovedTube]

thank you @TienTim 🎉🤩

[lothar-cell]

Hey guys, just to let you know, there's similar payed extension in the App Store, maybe it is based on ImprovedTube's code? https://apps.apple.com/hu/app/untrap-for-youtube/id1637438059

[ImprovedTube]

hi! @lothar-cell thanks! inspired i guess. Developers starting with few users often might start their own code for 100s of hours. (Worth a lot, which sadly might go to waste before long more often than not.) - So i find that sad for this sisyphos mission. Check this if you like: #1881.
(Yet i feel responsible for even more people to start a similar project😆, who just want to do something /feel uninspired. (through the amount of users and the github documentation i might cause the idea and each time i write something barely (self-)motivational here.) (Yet i'd rather warn other developer not to start with this, because keeping it up for 10+ years might not be fun or easy. And they might be able to do something fitting their talent better - or to do teamwork!✨ (instead of sadly only believing in one-man-bands. And even for something that rather modest / doesnt start critical. Only after X years one might rationally be convinced not to continue alone. )

[ImprovedTube]

hi @TienTim, please let us know your plans. Will you renew the App Store account?

---

Also, I guess this / such command line can save us a few clicks already?

yes | xcrun "/Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/safari-web-extension-converter" 
/path/to/Extension --no-open --force --swift --app-name TEST --bundle-identifier AUTHOR --project-location /Volumes/1/TEST;  cd /Volumes/1/TEST/TEST;  xcodebuild;  build/Release/TEST

thanks!

(2. do you want to sell the extension later and forward the money?)

[lothar-cell]

It would certainly be great, if the publishing process was automated.

[lothar-cell]

Do I see it correctly, that the extension has disappeared from the App Store? I type ImprovedTube, or Improved Tube, nothing comes up.

[TienTim]

hi @TienTim, please let us know your plans. Will you renew the App Store account?

---

Also, I guess this / such command line can save you a few clicks already?

yes | xcrun "/Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/safari-web-extension-converter" 

/path/to/Extension --no-open --force --swift --app-name TEST --bundle-identifier AUTHOR --project-location /Volumes/1/TEST;  cd /Volumes/1/TEST/TEST;  xcodebuild;  build/Release/TEST

thanks!

(2. do you want to sell the extension later and forward the money?)

Hi @ImprovedTube, would you like me to extend Apple Dev membership? I'm glad to do it. What about we sell the extension just 1$. I'll forward the money if that's more than the membership fee 99$.

[lothar-cell]

I'll defto buy it! Given it's updated promptly with the main channel.

[ImprovedTube]

@lothar-cell yay! 🤜🤛

hi @TienTim, how are you? I thought you might want to stay an AppStore publisher too (Did your ad-blocker sell a few times, is it still working? )

Of course our sales will fill more than the $99 & your working hours. You can go ahead selling subscription for >= $0.7/month for our users from USA and richest few countries; >= $0.4/month for Korea and most countries; and the cheapest possible ($1/year) or free for India & poor countries

• This will allow us to pay some daily work and slowly increase or even multiply service for everybody.

So we can write this exactly on top of the description in the AppStore. And we can work on subscribers wishes with extra priority. - At the same time we can just publish a signed apple installer for free in our organisation or in public, to show we want to monetizing nothing but the Appstore listing.

( i typed this a few times: ) Only a recurring price is realistic as we need to do maintenance and it should be often/daily. Apple wants to be a bit exclusive & expensive and users might want a bit of that too. Any payment requirement will already decrease the Appstore installations much, as not everybody wants to add a payment method even, but beyond that, for most people the exact $ amount is less relevant, than the decision to support us at all. PocketTube's advanced features ask for $2.99/month on patreon & SPOI takes $1.99/month from all users (looks like 8000 users & donating all). (If we ever get that much we can multiply development AND donate most)

thanks!

[lothar-cell]

Hmm, let me just add that monthly (or yearly) subscription is out of question for me personally.

[ImprovedTube]

hi @lothar-cell why?

(a "rule of thumb accounting principle?")

And did you considering it can be only cents per month? So it is the accurate way. (Other apps might not require maintenance so for them it is a greedy option. But for us it is the minimum viable/sustainable way.) And why would i do the maintenance for unlimited years, when most people wont even know or care) (or else, if it wont be worth it to anybody, should this project have ever started?) Unfortunately we cant make all users simply pay $0.01/month automatically. (Only for Crypto/Brave Browser users maybe..) So making 10% of apple users pay or 1% of all users is our easiest sustainable perspective for now.

thanks!

[lothar-cell]

I simply loath software subscriptions, they all sell themselves as good deal, just a little cost, but when it becomes a trend, they add up, and having monthly bills in the real world is enough already. The other thing is, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth that I can use the extension for free on every other browser. So in this case, I would look for an alternative.

When it comes to subscriptions, optional Patreon, with added extras (but not gutted core features from the regular version) feels like a friendlier approach, as it does not want to force users to do something, they don't necessarily want.

[ImprovedTube]

hmm, then do you have a need (or habit) to use Safari but don't like to grant yourself the little "apple-luxury", like other's might?

alternative

then do you prefer unreliable updates, where you never know if it takes 1 week or 6 month or never? - there might only be 2 or 3 developers at a time caring for YouTube Javascript (=doing the same mistake as me but not as enduring.)

• The endurable way, after working in circles all the years, is to team up or quit. Otherwise in the end these YouTube extensions can be unnecessary drama (compared to what else developers can achieve, requiring less maintenance)

  1881 ( And I might not want to make UI to be known by many people (precious memory pathes), when i cant make sure to make it sustainable. Then I maybe i would better better quit, so that they might learn something more permanently reliable/relevant to them. (than free browser extensions requiring too much maintenance)

  (= It seems i should suggest you (600 000? people), to get the real deal or none 🤔)

friendlier

Why? Then the extra features are not "friendly". - Do you mean personally or by social norm/convention? I know recurring for is relatively rare in the AppStore. But that doesn't fix our maintenance-reality and the true character of this app.

• And did you consider: Safari itself is a very "optional feature" ( - hard to explain why anybody "needs Safari and Mac users can also use any Browser. )
  • BTW, should I publish Chrome & Firefox version with a modified slim GUI like Safari and more caching?

loath

Isn't this more relatable yet than just any stranger software? /How long have you been using the extension?

---

BTW, I like prices appropriate where the users can chose.
(=As long as i have reserve energy to exploit, i might be happy to let you chose to pay 0 or and feel like paying enough even for $0.0x/year - or just 1/millionth of the real cost/value of the necessary work)
(But Appstore doesn't allow that. Basically here so we can only chose to get the 250 installs or so per day (and growing)

• Or 🤔 we can win maybe 5 of them as "customers per day, willing to pay maintenance cents. While the other 245 will find another free route - That's all. ( Yet the helps uniquely in the current money-less situation, while right now we get 0 AppStore installs and maybe 2000 in other browsers.)

  a trend?

You mean fear(/risk?) they could try to raise prices without subscribers noticing much? - Our extension is a little trend ever since 2013 - and it might usually be defined as waste of precious developer effort so far. Can/shall we define it differently/ better?

monthly bills in the real world

Proportionally hardly related. A typically a user might just really care about some apps like 3 or 10 or 25 but even if they spend most of their time online. But when from a rich country could also pay a 1000 of times their proportional development costs without noticing financially.
Yet I feel so guilty "neglecting maintenance. I should make sure on the long term this is sustainable with 2-3 employees.

thanks again!

[lothar-cell]

No, I mean as long as I have alternatives, I won't choose subscription, partly due to principal, because I don't want to support the software subscription trend, and partly because when a number of subscription services add up, one needs to set up priorities and cut down where possible.

By trend I meant more and more services are trying to become subscription-based, and users clearly don't like the idea of paying for something indefinitely.

About Patreon, it's a different model, it builds a community, there are a lot of examples out there how it is done without being unfair to non-supporters.

About Apple-luxury, I think it's BS. I'm perfectly fine with installing a packaged extension, without the App Store, but again, there are non-subscription alternatives out there, and if not, usually they come to life when a service tries to force users to pay in a way they don't want. Like in case of Adobe vs Affinity, for example.

About switching browsers, I'm also using Firefox for Steam for example, but giving up Safari entirely for a YouTube extension isn't realistic, for me at least.

[ImprovedTube]

hey, how many software subscriptions are you paying already and considering? And what would be the total price to get all that you know you believe in using personally and or deserve support?

• (just repeating/rephrasing mostly:)

  users clearly don't like the idea of paying for something indefinitely.

  so users should learn(?🤔 ) that our maintenance is going on infinite, that they chose a maintenance heavy thing way.

  there are a lot of examples out there how it is done without being unfair to non-supporters.

  specifically? selling nonsense like an exclusive alpha test 3 times a year?

  giving up Safari

  just wondered whats the habit/advantage of Safari. Cant think of locking our new work be more friendly than just monetizing AppStore which always was very monetized definition.

---

BTW:

• i seems in this thread, you already proved volunteer effort, more rare/special than paying $5/year for something for 10 years or so :)
  (=Are you respecting your effort less than your bills?)

  (or at least contrasts/irrationality about money seem comment in-fact. Yet we are not the average project, so why not make sure people get it right; we should keep up the work unlike a product that needs no updated.)

  • if I could chose, I would just use YouTube for $0.12 per hour or so (and ad-free) and that would make me support creators more than ads. Did you happen to read #1950?
  • there are more specific/sensitive funding opportunities next to Appstore, such as asking our youtube premium users only, to also support us through a paid YoutTube channel. Because that will just increase their existing bills from youtube a bit and that will allow us not to bother everyone else - besides the fee for paid youtube channels is very high. (While AppStore at least started to cut the 30% fee by half, for all the developers selling below $1million/year.)

[ImprovedTube]

PS: @TienTim, the AppStore listing is worth maybe $99/day to the people currently, since they save installing it manually so many times. So we should care and not waste a day or week, even if we might register a non-profit soon.
So for such task, the payment that the project owes you, will/should usually also include a variable for the amount of responsibility.

---

yes | xcrun.....

• just got to figure out how to sign it too. (To offer a free package too)

[TienTim]

PS: @TienTim, the AppStore listing is worth maybe $99/day to the people currently, since they save installing it manually so many times. So we should care and not waste a day or week, even if we might register a non-profit soon. So for such task, the payment that the project owes you, will/should usually also include a variable for the amount of responsibility.

yes | xcrun.....

• just got to figure out how to sign it too. (To offer a free package too)

Hi @ImprovedTube , I donated my responsibility and Appstore listing fee in the first year. For the second year, I also can give my support to the project for free. That support includes updating the new version of application occasionally, even maybe contributing to project source code.

hi @TienTim, please let us know your plans. Will you renew the App Store account?

Also, I guess this / such command line can save you a few clicks already?

yes | xcrun "/Applications/Xcode-beta.app/Contents/Developer/usr/bin/safari-web-extension-converter" 

/path/to/Extension --no-open --force --swift --app-name TEST --bundle-identifier AUTHOR --project-location /Volumes/1/TEST;  cd /Volumes/1/TEST/TEST;  xcodebuild;  build/Release/TEST

thanks! (2. do you want to sell the extension later and forward the money?)

Hi @ImprovedTube, would you like me to extend Apple Dev membership? I'm glad to do it. What about we sell the extension just 1$. I'll forward the money if that's more than the membership fee 99$.

Do you agree with my proposal?

[ImprovedTube]

did you read? https://github.com/code-charity/youtube/issues/1568#issuecomment-1912715607 @TienTim,

1. Can renew already, so we and i owe you $99
2. Can prepare a note along with the offer before setting a price:

"Every AppStore buyer gets a free wish (or two) for us to work on with priority (please request wishes in our GitHub). And a little money will allow to finally guarantee much more daily work /maintenance consistently. (Some of which is very necessary whenever YouTube makes changes (unannounced) and we don't want to bring some updates late. - We endured some Sisyphus-tasks since 2012 and often did more than any other YouTube extension as reflected by millions of downloads. Yet this is not sustainable for one person alone nor forever. We have to find /hire some developers sooner than later."

3. Why $1? (won't be sustainable and misrepresent the product that needs a lot of maintenance. We could set $0.5/month $1.3 / 3 month, $5/year or $33 /10 years.) (USA. korea, JP).

thanks!

[ImprovedTube]

in another thread i said, we could also have two listings, precisely:

1. The existing one (paid quarterly. So everyone who wants an update will at least think about paying.) (and it should have the same name as in chrome & firefox already.)

2. And a link to get it for free leading to: WhyIMaPoorAppleUserOxymoronAndHaveNoPaymentMethodForAppStore@improvedtube.com where a free tester/team link could be shared by auto-response - or else a "secret second store listing. (So just requiring the minimum effort to send an email.) (good @lothar-cell?)