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code4lib / code-of-conduct

Code4lib code of conduct
https://code4lib.org/
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Identify IRC "helpers" and/or people with ops #4

Closed anarchivist closed 11 years ago

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

Raised by @ruebot and @jrochkind in comments on 90fed35e160fd5fb7094bd528842e5067b9b3d4a

Do we have a list of people who have privs to administrate #code4lib? IIRC, in the past that might have been @tholbroo ...

ruebot commented 11 years ago

We have an "incomplete" list of regulars: http://www.code4lib.org/node/87

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

True, but "regulars" don't necessarily mean that they have admin privs. zoia doesn't have ops in #code4lib, but has a kick command.

mbklein commented 11 years ago

I'll check chanserv for an ops list when I get back to a real computer.

anarchivist commented 11 years ago 
< anarchivist> /msg chanserv access #code4lib list
< chanserv> (notice) Entry Nickname/Host          Flags
< chanserv> (notice) ----- ---------------------- -----
< chanserv> (notice) 1     tholbroo               +AFRfiorstv [modified ? ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 2     edsu                   +Afiotv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:11:42 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 3     dchud                  +Afiotv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:11:49 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 4     rsinger                +Afiotv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:09:18 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 5     djfiander              +Aiotv [modified ? ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 6     mbklein_               +Aiortv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:18:00 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 7     gsf                    +Afiortv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:08:39 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 8     mjgiarlo               +Aiortv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:17:37 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) 9     jaf_zzz                +Aiortv [modified 41 weeks, 6 days, 05:10:33 ago]
< chanserv> (notice) ----- ---------------------- -----
< chanserv> (notice) End of #code4lib FLAGS listing.
mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

I'd be glad to have my name listed as a channel administrator, then. We ought to make sure these names are posted, perhaps linked from the code4lib irc page, and then also linked from the code of conduct. And then close this issue?

ruebot commented 11 years ago

I'll throw my name in the hat if need be.

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

:+1: Me too.

rsinger commented 11 years ago

So, uh, 9 white dudes, 6 in the Eastern timezone, one in Central and the other two haven't been seen in months.

Maybe we want to spread this responsibility across the globe a bit more for (at the very least) better temporal coverage?

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

@rsinger :+1: :beers:

mbklein commented 11 years ago

I'm in. At least I'm Jewish.

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:56 PM, Ross Singer notifications@github.com wrote:

So, uh, 9 white dudes, 6 in the Eastern timezone, one in Central and the other two haven't been seen in months.

Maybe we want to spread this responsibility across the globe a bit more for (at the very least) better temporal coverage?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

I'm most of the above. United Nations in the house!

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

I'm from New Jersey. That's gotta count for somethin'.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

Gnucky Giarlo

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

:neckbeard: :spaghetti: :gun:

gsf commented 11 years ago

I'm happy to be listed, even though I'm the same as everyone else.

mistydemeo commented 11 years ago

CST representin~

(Also need to add myself to the list of regulars.)

rsinger commented 11 years ago

+1

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

For those of us too lazy (programmer points!) to check the chanserv flags documentation, do the deputies have sufficient mojo to further deputize? Or must that be done by @tholbroo? I'd be glad to share the powah.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Misty De Meo notifications@github.comwrote:

CST representin~

(Also need to add myself to the list of regulars.)

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10744958.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

Mordor

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

@mjgiarlo I reckon you try it out, with, say, /msg ChanServ FLAGS #code4lib anarchivist +Aiortv

bess commented 11 years ago

Is it okay for me to admit in public that it would really rock my world to have ops on the #code4lib irc channel? Also, if anyone knows how to get back ops on a channel that's lost it, please come visit us over in #blacklight.

Bess

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:31 PM, "Michael J. Giarlo" notifications@github.com wrote:

For those of us too lazy (programmer points!) to check the chanserv flags documentation, do the deputies have sufficient mojo to further deputize? Or must that be done by @tholbroo? I'd be glad to share the powah.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Misty De Meo notifications@github.comwrote:

CST representin~

(Also need to add myself to the list of regulars.)

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10744958.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

bess commented 11 years ago

This made me laugh so hard I spit on my iPad.

Sent from my iPad

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:36 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com wrote:

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

@bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim op if it was. I think @jbfink is in a similar scenario with #digitalhumanities.

bess commented 11 years ago

How does one register it? Is that the thing where you send in your name and contact info and stuff about your project? I've done that several times, over the course of several years, and I'm always told just that there's a very long queue. Or is there something else that is meant by getting a channel registered?

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com wrote:

@bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim op if it was. I think @jbfink is in a similar scenario with #digitalhumanities.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

Give this a shot: /msg ChanServ register ##blacklight

jbfink commented 11 years ago

Yeah, dumb me, made a channel without getting a bot or registering with ChanServ. Don't be like me. On 2012-11-26 10:46 PM, "Nick Ruest" notifications@github.com wrote:

@bess https://github.com/bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim op if it was. I think @jbfinkhttps://github.com/jbfinkis in a similar scenario with #digitalhumanities.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10745269.

bess commented 11 years ago

That says ##blacklight is already registered to jrochkind, bess, jkeck.

So yay, I own that one, right? Except that everyone hangs out on #blacklight. Should we just switch?

Here is what /msg ChanServ register #blacklight says:

(notice) You must be a channel operator in #blacklight in order to register it.

Sorry for hijacking the thread everyone! I hope we go back to talking about irc ops and/or an anti-harrassment policy!

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:50 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com wrote:

Give this a shot: /msg ChanServ register ##blacklight

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

jrochkind commented 11 years ago

I tried to register #blacklight a couple years ago (AFTER we'd already
lost it), and got nowhere, was not able to get anyone at freenode to
do anything about it.

On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Bess Sadler wrote:

How does one register it? Is that the thing where you send in your
name and contact info and stuff about your project? I've done that
several times, over the course of several years, and I'm always told
just that there's a very long queue. Or is there something else that
is meant by getting a channel registered?

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com
wrote:

@bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim
op if it was. I think @jbfink is in a similar scenario with

digitalhumanities.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mbklein commented 11 years ago

blacklight is not currently registered to anyone. If you want to recover

the ability to register it, everyone has to leave the channel, and then whoever's going to register has to be the first one back in.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Jonathan Rochkind < notifications@github.com> wrote:

I tried to register #blacklight a couple years ago (AFTER we'd already lost it), and got nowhere, was not able to get anyone at freenode to do anything about it.

On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Bess Sadler wrote:

How does one register it? Is that the thing where you send in your name and contact info and stuff about your project? I've done that several times, over the course of several years, and I'm always told just that there's a very long queue. Or is there something else that is meant by getting a channel registered?

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com wrote:

@bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim op if it was. I think @jbfink is in a similar scenario with

digitalhumanities.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10745795.

bess commented 11 years ago

Ugh. Yes, that was the conclusion we reached last time. But we haven't been able to coordinate it yet (SOME PEOPLE leave their chat clients on all the time and never log out). Time to try again, I guess, unless Chris Beer succeeds in convincing us all to just move to ##blacklight.

Thanks for the impromptu tech support. And for ops on the channel. And for jumping on this anti harassment policy thing. I love our community.

Bess

On Nov 26, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Michael B. Klein notifications@github.com wrote:

blacklight is not currently registered to anyone. If you want to recover

the ability to register it, everyone has to leave the channel, and then whoever's going to register has to be the first one back in.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:21 PM, Jonathan Rochkind < notifications@github.com> wrote:

I tried to register #blacklight a couple years ago (AFTER we'd already lost it), and got nowhere, was not able to get anyone at freenode to do anything about it.

On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:49 PM, Bess Sadler wrote:

How does one register it? Is that the thing where you send in your name and contact info and stuff about your project? I've done that several times, over the course of several years, and I'm always told just that there's a very long queue. Or is there something else that is meant by getting a channel registered?

On Nov 26, 2012, at 7:46 PM, Nick Ruest notifications@github.com wrote:

@bess did the channel get registered? You might be able to reclaim op if it was. I think @jbfink is in a similar scenario with

digitalhumanities.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10745795.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mbklein commented 11 years ago

To make it easier for people to know who the "volunteer helpers" are in the channel, I've given zoia the ability to learn the names of people who should be available for help in the channels she monitors. I don't want to tie it specifically to chanserv ops lists (primarily because supybot makes that really hard to do), so it's just channeldb (like @quote or @blame). I'm still looking for the right term to use. @ops doesn't sound right, because not everyone is an operator in the IRC sense. @admins sounds like there's some kind of power hierarchy that doesn't really exist. Right now it's called @staff, and I find "channel staff" to be an inoffensive and non-loaded term for "people who are here to help." But I wanted to check and see if anyone else had better suggestions before I go live with it.

For example:

<mbklein> @staff add mbklein
<zoia> The operation succeeded. mbklein is now #code4lib staff.
<mbklein> @staff add bess
<zoia> The operation succeeded. bess is now #code4lib staff.
<mbklein> @staff
<zoia> List of active #code4lib staff: bess, mbklein
*bess left the room*
<mbklein> @staff
<zoia> List of active #code4lib staff: mbklein
<mbklein> @staff --all
<zoia> List of #code4lib staff: bess, mbklein

Thoughts?

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

@mbklein +1. I think @staff sounds good to me. Is the idea that someone designated as such can help, or is it more explicitly tied with having some set privs that can be granted through, e.g, ChanServ or zoia?

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

(I think re-reading your comment, it sounds more like the former than the latter.)

thatandromeda commented 11 years ago

How will this be communicated to channel newbies? (People who have been involved for a while have a variety of means for addressing issues that may arise, including the social capital they've acquired; newbies are in a more vulnerable position and need to have structures more explicitly surfaced.)

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

@thatandromeda - one mechanism would be to use the @herald plugin, with a default herald containing staff info and (perhaps) an updated page about #code4lib IRC.

mbklein commented 11 years ago

It's just a list of volunteer helpers. No special powers involved.

On Nov 27, 2012, at 6:25 AM, "Mark A. Matienzo" notifications@github.com wrote:

@mbklein +1. I think @staff sounds good to me. Is the idea that someone designated as such can help, or is it more explicitly tied with having some set privs that can be granted through, e.g, ChanServ or zoia?

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

@mbklein :+1:

anarchivist commented 11 years ago

Thanks to @mbklein, we now have a @staff command for zoia in code4lib/supybot-plugins@83c5e4306ff81f87fdaa6ebe14c9f4e5994cf24f.

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

@anarchivist @mbklein @ruebot @thatandromeda:

Re the new @staff function, we might add more help text to @staff so it's clear what we're saying about these people, and then mention how @staff works in our code of conduct.

I'm also wondering if we should:

  1. Alter the default text that gets returned when one types @help to let users know how they can get help w/ channel conduct in addition to zoia plugins.
  2. Configure zoia to privmsg users when they join the channel (much like ircops do when clients join freenode) about methods of recourse should they feel harassed.

Thoughts?

edsu commented 11 years ago

The idea that some people are staff in #code4lib is somewhat obnoxious to me.

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

Maybe @helpers or something? It's a way to say to someone who feels threatened or harassed that there are people who have volunteered to help them.

paradawks commented 11 years ago

Someone email me a list of chanserv changes that need to happen at the end of all this if there's changes the other ops can't make.

Todd

Todd Holbrook Dream Theory Studios Inc. http://www.dreamtheorystudios.com

On 2012-11-26, at 7:31 PM, Michael J. Giarlo notifications@github.com wrote:

For those of us too lazy (programmer points!) to check the chanserv flags documentation, do the deputies have sufficient mojo to further deputize? Or must that be done by @tholbroo? I'd be glad to share the powah.

On Mon, Nov 26, 2012 at 10:25 PM, Misty De Meo notifications@github.comwrote:

CST representin~

(Also need to add myself to the list of regulars.)

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10744958.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

mistydemeo commented 11 years ago

Maybe @helpers or something?

I like @helpers better than @staff fwiw. Makes it clearer that these are volunteer helpers, not ops with iron fists who will kick you for doing bad things.

bess commented 11 years ago

+1 for "staff". That seems fine to me.

Bess

On Nov 26, 2012, at 10:39 PM, "Michael B. Klein" notifications@github.com wrote:

To make it easier for people to know who the "volunteer helpers" are in the channel, I've given zoia the ability to learn the names of people who should be available for help in the channels she monitors. I don't want to tie it specifically to chanserv ops lists (primarily because supybot makes that really hard to do), so it's just channeldb (like @quote or @blame). I'm still looking for the right term to use. @ops doesn't sound right, because not everyone is an operator in the IRC sense. @admins sounds like there's some kind of power hierarchy that doesn't really exist. Right now it's called @staff, and I find "channel staff" to be an inoffensive and non-loaded term for "people who are here to help." But I wanted to check and see if anyone else had better suggestions before I go live with it.

For example:

@staff add mbklein The operation succeeded. mbklein is now #code4lib staff. @staff add bess The operation succeeded. bess is now #code4lib staff. @staff List of active #code4lib staff: bess, mbklein _bess left the room_ @staff List of active #code4lib staff: mbklein @staff --all List of #code4lib staff: bess, mbklein Thoughts? — Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.
bess commented 11 years ago

I like @helpers just fine too. It hadn't occurred to me that @staff might have iron fist connotations.

Bess

On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Misty De Meo notifications@github.com wrote:

Maybe @helpers or something?

I like @helpers better than @staff fwiw. Makes it clearer that these are volunteer helpers, not ops with iron fists who will kick you for doing bad things.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

acolyte, aid/aide, consort, attendant, henchperson, lieutenant?

atz commented 11 years ago

Yeah, this is an issue anytime there is a sufficiently large body of volunteers and a perceived set of "professional" or "important" people. So I'd prefer @helpers.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 12:02 PM, Bess Sadler notifications@github.comwrote:

I like @helpers just fine too. It hadn't occurred to me that @staff might have iron fist connotations.

Bess

On Nov 27, 2012, at 8:30 AM, Misty De Meo notifications@github.com wrote:

Maybe @helpers or something?

I like @helpers better than @staff fwiw. Makes it clearer that these are volunteer helpers, not ops with iron fists who will kick you for doing bad things.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHub.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10766288.

mjgiarlo commented 11 years ago

How long 'til @mbklein changes @staff to @helpers? I can go with an over-under of 3 hours.

mbklein commented 11 years ago

Are we decided on @helpers then? I'd been holding off for consensus. But I'm notoriously bad at detecting when such a state has been reached.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Michael J. Giarlo <notifications@github.com

wrote:

How long 'til @mbklein https://github.com/mbklein changes @staff to @helpers? I can go with an over-under of 3 hours.

— Reply to this email directly or view it on GitHubhttps://github.com/code4lib/antiharassment-policy/issues/4#issuecomment-10779256.

ruebot commented 11 years ago

:+1: