New Package Request: `crun-wasm` and `wasmedge-rt`

rhatdan commented 1 year ago

What, if any, are the additional dependencies on the package? (i.e. does it pull in Python, Perl, etc)

wasmedge (wasm-library)

What is the size of the package and its dependencies?

According to dnf info

crun-wasm: Size : 11

wasmedge: Size : 1.6 M

What problem are you trying to solve with this package? Or what functionality does the package provide?

A lot of people are starting to play with WASM and Containers, we have published a wasm edge blog and people are trying it out on podman-machine on Windows and MAC and failing.

Can the software provided by the package be run from a container? Explain why or why not.

No. The software is needed to run a container.

Can the tool(s) provided by the package be helpful in debugging container runtime issues?

No.

Can the tool(s) provided by the package be helpful in debugging networking issues?

No.

Is it possible to layer the package onto the base OS as a day 2 operation? Explain why or why not.

Yes

In the case of packages providing services and binaries, can the packaging be adjusted to just deliver binaries?

No

Can the tool(s) provided by the package be used to do things we’d rather users not be able to do in FCOS?

Maybe

Does the software provided by the package have a history of CVEs?

No.

rhatdan commented 1 year ago

This is needed to fix https://github.com/containers/podman/issues/16930

travier commented 1 year ago

Likely related blog posts:

travier commented 1 year ago

I'm +1 in general.

We'll likely discuss more in the community meeting. Could you join us this week or the next?

What are the stability / compatibility guarantee for WASM? I don't know much about it so not sure if that question even makes sense.

rhatdan commented 1 year ago

I can join, when is it? Do you have a calendar invite/reminder. @flouthoc @giuseppe should also join.

travier commented 1 year ago

16:30 UTC on Wednesdays: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker#meetings

travier commented 1 year ago

Another question: Why wasmedge and not wesmer or wasmtime?

rhatdan commented 1 year ago

I guess that is up to @flouthoc and @giuseppe

travier commented 1 year ago

Note that today's meeting will be over video: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/coreos@lists.fedoraproject.org/thread/UFC25ERR5I3G5HQZ5QUUCQGZ2VNTB3BI/

cgwalters commented 1 year ago

One concern I have is that /usr/bin/wasmedge would also become something that (in theory) users/scripts and other code could depend on, and if we plan to switch crun over to a different runtime, then if implemented in the obvious way it would result in wasmedge being removed later.

Options:

Explicitly document that this is an implementation detail
Actually move it into /usr/libexec/wasmedge
Commit to shipping wasmedge for the forseeable future, even if there's a switch to defaulting to wasmtime or something else later

jlebon commented 1 year ago

Currently, it seems to pull in Python:

[root@cosa-devsh ~]# rpm-ostree install crun-wasm
...
Added:
  crun-wasm-1.7.2-1.fc37.x86_64
  fmt-9.1.0-1.fc37.x86_64
  libb2-0.98.1-7.fc37.x86_64
  libgomp-12.2.1-4.fc37.x86_64
  libxcrypt-compat-4.4.33-3.fc37.x86_64
  lld-15.0.6-1.fc37.x86_64
  lld-libs-15.0.6-1.fc37.x86_64
  llvm-15.0.6-1.fc37.x86_64
  llvm-libs-15.0.6-1.fc37.x86_64
  mpdecimal-2.5.1-4.fc37.x86_64
  python-pip-wheel-22.2.2-3.fc37.noarch
  python-setuptools-wheel-62.6.0-2.fc37.noarch
  python-unversioned-command-3.11.1-1.fc37.noarch
  python3-3.11.1-1.fc37.x86_64
  python3-libs-3.11.1-1.fc37.x86_64
  spdlog-1.10.0-3.fc37.x86_64
  wasmedge-0.11.2-1.fc37.x86_64
Changes queued for next boot. Run "systemctl reboot" to start a reboot
[root@cosa-devsh ~]#

cgwalters commented 1 year ago

There is another path to pursue here, which is having wasm delivered as "system extension container", like https://github.com/containers/bootc/issues/7 style.

dustymabe commented 1 year ago

After last week's meeting @rhatdan and team decided they had some work to do on their end (including trying to remove the python dep) before moving this proposal forward.

benoitf commented 1 year ago

@dustymabe

I think you need to use wasmedge-rt dependency (+ crun-wasm) and not wasmedge

for example if I try to install crun-wasm and wasmedge-rt

podman run --rm -it quay.io/fedora/fedora-coreos:next

bash-5.2# rpm-ostree install crun-wasm wasmedge-rt
Enabled rpm-md repositories: fedora updates-modular updates fedora-cisco-openh264 fedora-modular updates-archive
Updating metadata for 'fedora'... done
Updating metadata for 'updates-modular'... done
Updating metadata for 'updates'... done
Updating metadata for 'fedora-cisco-openh264'... done
Updating metadata for 'fedora-modular'... done
Updating metadata for 'updates-archive'... done
Importing rpm-md... done
rpm-md repo 'fedora'; generated: 2023-04-13T20:36:48Z solvables: 59720
rpm-md repo 'updates-modular'; generated: 2023-08-19T01:34:25Z solvables: 1081
rpm-md repo 'updates'; generated: 2023-09-04T01:28:36Z solvables: 20146
rpm-md repo 'fedora-cisco-openh264'; generated: 2023-03-14T10:56:46Z solvables: 4
rpm-md repo 'fedora-modular'; generated: 2023-04-13T20:30:28Z solvables: 1068
rpm-md repo 'updates-archive'; generated: 2023-09-04T01:39:39Z solvables: 34050
Resolving dependencies... done
Will download: 4 packages (723.8?kB)
Downloading from 'fedora'... done
Downloading from 'updates-archive'... done
Downloading from 'updates'... done
Installing 4 packages:
  crun-wasm-1.8.6-1.fc38.aarch64 (updates-archive)
  fmt-9.1.0-2.fc38.aarch64 (fedora)
  spdlog-1.11.0-5.fc38.aarch64 (fedora)
  wasmedge-rt-0.13.3-1.fc38.aarch64 (updates)
Installing: fmt-9.1.0-2.fc38.aarch64 (fedora)
Installing: spdlog-1.11.0-5.fc38.aarch64 (fedora)
Installing: wasmedge-rt-0.13.3-1.fc38.aarch64 (updates)
Installing: crun-wasm-1.8.6-1.fc38.aarch64 (updates-archive)

so, no python dependencies as @jlebon pointed out

benoitf commented 1 year ago

@dustymabe is it ok now to include crun-wasm and wasmedge-rt ?

travier commented 1 year ago

This likely needs to be discussed again in a community meeting. I don't remember if we had a conviencing answer for https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1375#issuecomment-1377555942.

benoitf commented 12 months ago

hello @travier , has it been discussed as meetings seem to happen every Wednesday ?

it looks like it wasn't https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-1/2023-09-13/fedora_coreos_meeting.2023-09-13-16.30.html

labelling the issue is not enough to get it discussed ?

travier commented 12 months ago

We didn't get to it during last week meeting as we had other topics to discuss. The best way to get something on the agenda is to attend the meeting :).

travier commented 12 months ago

You should also strongly consider answering the questions we've had above.

rhatdan commented 11 months ago

@travier what questions need to be answered. I believe the python requirement has been removed.

travier commented 11 months ago

What are the stability / compatibility guarantee for WASM? Once we include something in the image, users may start relying on it so we'll have to make sure things keep working on updates. See https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1375#issuecomment-1379137777
Why wasmedge and not wesmer or wasmtime? While I don't have a preference, we need a clear answer to this question to document why we would only include one runtime and not the others. (From https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1375#issuecomment-1377555942)
What needs this? I assume it's podman desktop. Layering the package may also be an option. The amount of podman desktop specific packages keeps growing. (https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1557)

cgwalters commented 11 months ago

My 2c: Sprint to having podman derive its own custom images, from !FCOS even.

rhatdan commented 11 months ago

I am leaning the same way. The question is time to market. POdman desktop wants to be able to support WASM workloads. Wasmedge was the library that Docker originally supported, which is why we chose it by default. I am informed that Docker Desktop now allows users to select different WASM Libraries.

lsm5 commented 11 months ago

My 2c: Sprint to having podman derive its own custom images, from !FCOS even.

https://github.com/containers/podman/pull/20041

lsm5 commented 11 months ago

some additional comments RE: wasmer, wasmedge, wasmtime:

RE: wasmedge, upstream proactively packaged it up for Fedora and continue to maintain it on Fedora and EPEL, that's why things have moved a lot faster.

RE: wasmtime, I had included it in podman-next sometime ago but I haven't updated it in a while. RE: official fedora package for wasmtime, there were some licensing issues preventing it, but if we are ok with some build of wasmtime, I could probably update it on the podman-next copr. /cc @font

RE: wasmer, I never got a package request from anyone so I haven't done anything on it yet, but I could look into that as well if we need it.

To be clear, I'm only signing up for maintaining them on podman-next if we need rpm builds somewhere and are willing to overlook licensing and other packaging issues. I probably won't have the bandwidth for official Fedora maintenance.

LorbusChris commented 11 months ago

@lsm5 note that you may only build things on COPR that do not violate Fedora's license policy: https://docs.pagure.org/copr.copr/user_documentation.html#what-i-can-build-in-copr

lsm5 commented 11 months ago

@lsm5 note that you may only build things on COPR that do not violate Fedora's license policy: https://docs.pagure.org/copr.copr/user_documentation.html#what-i-can-build-in-copr

sure, if wasmtime still has that problem license, I could skip it altogether. Makes my life easier.

travier commented 11 months ago

$ rpm -qip crun-wasm-1.9-1.fc38.x86_64.rpm wasmedge-rt-0.13.3-1.fc38.x86_64.rpm
Name        : crun-wasm
Version     : 1.9
Release     : 1.fc38
Architecture: x86_64
Install Date: (not installed)
Group       : Unspecified
Size        : 18105
License     : GPL-2.0-only
Signature   : RSA/SHA256, Thu 07 Sep 2023 08:05:58 PM CEST, Key ID 809a8d7ceb10b464
Source RPM  : crun-1.9-1.fc38.src.rpm
Build Date  : Thu 07 Sep 2023 08:02:26 PM CEST
Build Host  : buildvm-x86-32.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Packager    : Fedora Project
Vendor      : Fedora Project
URL         : https://github.com/containers/crun
Bug URL     : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/crun
Summary     : crun with wasm support
Description :
crun-wasm is a symlink to the crun binary, with wasm as an additional dependency.

Name        : wasmedge-rt
Version     : 0.13.3
Release     : 1.fc38
Architecture: x86_64
Install Date: (not installed)
Group       : Unspecified
Size        : 1654978
License     : ASL 2.0 and CC0
Signature   : RSA/SHA256, Thu 27 Jul 2023 11:28:03 AM CEST, Key ID 809a8d7ceb10b464
Source RPM  : wasmedge-0.13.3-1.fc38.src.rpm
Build Date  : Thu 27 Jul 2023 11:17:55 AM CEST
Build Host  : buildvm-x86-18.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Packager    : Fedora Project
Vendor      : Fedora Project
URL         : https://github.com/WasmEdge/WasmEdge
Bug URL     : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/wasmedge
Summary     : WasmEdge Runtime
Description :
This package contains only WasmEdge runtime without LLVM dependency.

$ rpm -qip fmt-9.1.0-2.fc38.x86_64.rpm spdlog-1.11.0-5.fc38.x86_64.rpm
Name        : fmt
Version     : 9.1.0
Release     : 2.fc38
Architecture: x86_64
Install Date: (not installed)
Group       : Unspecified
Size        : 370770
License     : MIT
Signature   : RSA/SHA256, Thu 19 Jan 2023 07:57:32 AM CET, Key ID 809a8d7ceb10b464
Source RPM  : fmt-9.1.0-2.fc38.src.rpm
Build Date  : Thu 19 Jan 2023 04:53:43 AM CET
Build Host  : buildvm-x86-22.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Packager    : Fedora Project
Vendor      : Fedora Project
URL         : https://github.com/fmtlib/fmt
Bug URL     : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/fmt
Summary     : Small, safe and fast formatting library for C++
Description :
C++ Format is an open-source formatting library for C++. It can be used as a
safe alternative to printf or as a fast alternative to IOStreams.

Name        : spdlog
Version     : 1.11.0
Release     : 5.fc38
Architecture: x86_64
Install Date: (not installed)
Group       : Unspecified
Size        : 442279
License     : MIT
Signature   : RSA/SHA256, Wed 15 Mar 2023 01:11:16 PM CET, Key ID 809a8d7ceb10b464
Source RPM  : spdlog-1.11.0-5.fc38.src.rpm
Build Date  : Wed 15 Mar 2023 01:04:50 PM CET
Build Host  : buildvm-x86-25.iad2.fedoraproject.org
Packager    : Fedora Project
Vendor      : Fedora Project
URL         : https://github.com/gabime/spdlog
Bug URL     : https://bugz.fedoraproject.org/spdlog
Summary     : Super fast C++ logging library
Description :
This is a packaged version of the gabime/spdlog C++ logging
library available at Github.

travier commented 11 months ago

From today's meeting:

  * AGREED: We will include crun-wasm & wasmedge-rt in Fedora CoreOS
    with a basic test for functionnality. We will revisit this
    discussion once the coreos layering story has matured.  (travier,
    17:26:15)

This was a weak agreement. @jlebon will detail other options.

jlebon commented 11 months ago

Not really other options (I mean, other than working out a layering scenario, even if that's old-style layering in the short-term), but a slight tweak on the proposal above: we could add the packages to next only for now. This still provides boot images for podman machine but leaves more room for removal in the future once the layering approach is fully ready.

lsm5 commented 11 months ago

Not really other options (I mean, other than working out a layering scenario, even if that's old-style layering in the short-term), but a slight tweak on the proposal above: we could add the packages to next only for now. This still provides boot images for podman machine but leaves more room for removal in the future once the layering approach is fully ready.

no strong opinion, I'm cool with this. I'll defer to @baude @rhatdan @cevich @flouthoc @benoitf PTAL

cevich commented 11 months ago

I'm not an authority on this, but generally get what it's for. Glancing through the comments, I didn't see anyone mention: Is this perhaps TOO NEW for including? As in, there's so much churn in this space that developers will be chomping-at-the-bit for the "next" update? If so, then doing it as (presumably faster-moving) add on may be more helpful. Though again, I'm not an expert on these things.

benoitf commented 11 months ago

hello, do you have any ETA when it'll land in next channel ?

I'm tracking https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config and https://fedoraproject.org/coreos/release-notes/?arch=x86_64&stream=next but I don't see anything around wasm

jlebon commented 11 months ago

https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config/pull/2650 and https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config/pull/2651 will add the requested packages to the next stream.

benoitf commented 11 months ago

thanks @jlebon

dustymabe commented 11 months ago

The fix for this went into next stream release 39.20231002.1.1. Please try out the new release and report issues.

dustymabe commented 11 months ago

This will stay in the next stream for the foreseeable future and will not be promoted to testing and stable. We'll re-evaluate this decision at a future time.

benoitf commented 11 months ago

hello @dustymabe

I figured out that podman is using testing channel and not next for their default machines 🤦 so we don't see the packages in the podman machine

I've checked with a podman machine that is using fedora-coreos-38.20231002.2.2-qemu.aarch64.qcow2

and there is no wasmedge-rt or crun-wasm installed (but it's expected as it's in next, not in testing)

podman machine ssh                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      
Connecting to vm. To close connection, use `~.` or `exit`
Fedora CoreOS 38.20231002.2.2
Tracker: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker
Discuss: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/tag/coreos

[core@localhost ~]$ crun-wasm
-bash: crun-wasm: command not found

[core@localhost ~]$ sudo rpm-ostree install crun-wasm wasmedge-rt
Removed:
  moby-engine-20.10.23-1.fc38.aarch64
Added:
  crun-wasm-1.9.2-1.fc38.aarch64
  fmt-9.1.0-2.fc38.aarch64
  spdlog-1.11.0-5.fc38.aarch64
  wasmedge-rt-0.13.3-1.fc38.aarch64
Changes queued for next boot. Run "systemctl reboot" to start a reboot

creating with next it's working but it's not the default option

jlebon commented 11 months ago

creating with next it's working but it's not the default option

Hi @benoitf. Yes, this is what https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1375#issuecomment-1728282414 was getting at, but likely it wasn't made explicit enough. The underlying question there was: are we OK to have it be in next for now and opt-in until the other options have progressed far enough?

benoitf commented 11 months ago

I don't really know here, as it means that all people using podman machines on macOS will probably have the testing and not next channel.

So at the end, user experience is not the one expected. I thought that podman machine was using next channel at first.

dustymabe commented 10 months ago

Proposal here to add to our testing/stable streams: https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config/pull/2690

dustymabe commented 9 months ago

The fix for this went into testing stream release 39.20231119.2.0. Please try out the new release and report issues.

benoitf commented 9 months ago

I tried this morning and it went well, it works like a charm

thanks !

$ podman run --platform wasi/wasm quay.io/podman-desktop-demo/wasm-rust-hello-world                                                    
Trying to pull quay.io/podman-desktop-demo/wasm-rust-hello-world:latest...
Getting image source signatures
Copying blob sha256:aef58f11cc595816273402cf78b560dc8e2b5f0b2e2db0bb59d696fb1a0ba5a7
Copying config sha256:213ba29e5067ee94700be912fbc44a77ea88a03e1e7e51adcfa7c4f2fbd1d8c8
Writing manifest to image destination

!... Hello Podman wasm World ...!

         .--"--.
       / -     - \
      / (O)   (O) \
   ~~~| -=(,Y,)=- |
    .---. /`  \   |~~
 ~/  o  o \~~~~.----. ~~
  | =(X)= |~  / (O (O) \
   ~~~~~~~  ~| =(Y_)=-  |
  ~~~~    ~~~|   U      |~~

Project:   https://github.com/containers/podman
Website:   https://podman.io
Documents: https://docs.podman.io
Twitter:   @Podman_io

dustymabe commented 9 months ago

@benoitf - we could still use a test added to our test suite as mentioned in https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-tracker/issues/1375#issuecomment-1728189702

From your comment above it looks like you might have a good example test to add :)

See https://github.com/coreos/fedora-coreos-config/blob/testing-devel/tests/kola/podman/rootless-pasta-networking for an example of adding a test.

Would you be willing to open a PR for it? You can test it locally after adding the test like cosa kola run ext.config.podman.rootless-pasta-networking.

benoitf commented 9 months ago

I can give a try but I'm on macOS so I'm not sure cosa kola will work ?! I guess I need to use a Linux VM if so, which one should I use

travier commented 9 months ago

You can build and test FCOS on FCOS in podman machine :)

dustymabe commented 8 months ago

The fix for this went into stable stream release 39.20231119.3.0.

coreos / fedora-coreos-tracker