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Corona-Warn-App: Issues with the public hotline +498007540001/2
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TAN hotline overloaded - infected people not getting through and giving up #14

Closed vaubaehn closed 1 year ago

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Which hotline

TAN hotline

What is missing

Enough staff that can pick up calls from users

Why should it be included

To enable more users to warn their contacts

Additional information

Hi there, according to current Google Play Store reviews for CWA, the telephone hotline for TANs (entering TAN to warn risk contacts) is overloaded! People are waiting >30min, many are giving up... Resulting in many people not getting warned about their infection risk. It looks like that the responsible companies have not been prepared for the higher incidence rates, and too less people are currently on phone to pick up user calls.

Is there anything you can do from your side, e.g., @thomasaugsten to forward a red alert to the responsible people? Thank you in advance!

cc: @dsarkar @heinezen

17.11.2021

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.rki.coronawarnapp&reviewId=gp%3AAOqpTOHDapzxGQivmkPMCqrqxJLvLJKZ1A91kFN8fzCIt-7tMuxv9frQkiMeP_AMrrNB81Ss9L7-6Bmt4J0Sxg

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.rki.coronawarnapp&reviewId=gp%3AAOqpTOFoS3n2wK8ZX1wmImRqqvscgu2rH_6wxUj6YsRyLNr99NTtXjkRE_5wYJeQ-FwT1adnb4J-9wIgeTA0KQ

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.rki.coronawarnapp&reviewId=gp%3AAOqpTOEIuJr8gmWNj7WC8U9R7FX6JZXkGGGSj-IVScR3mWca5BDeLW6FlRjsVDXWnEi2_YvjcMHNg_gPQhPMMg

18.11.2021

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=de.rki.coronawarnapp&reviewId=gp%3AAOqpTOGybTPRzpd_dydgFFWwxFJzzXMMPM5DLnoGtbHkCN4IktI7Ju9BIqMq8ky1peWD0wFYUFKPDRiFdpw1-w

Internal Tracking ID: EXPOSUREAPP-10939

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Currently, the incidence rates in Germany decrease much slower than compared to other countries some weeks ago. There is a chance, that we might reach a plateau soon. According to studies of TU Berlin, we should take the risk of again increasing incidence rates into account, due to the spread of Omicron subtype B2: https://depositonce.tu-berlin.de/bitstream/11303/16461/4/2022-02-23_MODUS-COVID_Bericht.pdf

The incidence rates could reach a level compared to some weeks ago, or in worst case exceed past incidence rates by factor 2.5

This would mean: again many people calling the TAN hotline. Is the hotline prepared for such a scenario in the next weeks?

@ndegendogo

Tbh, I would give up after ~ 5 minutes....

Would it change anything, if they had nice music or quiz played for the waiting time? 😉

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Twitter reports have changed from: "I have to wait more than 45 min in the hotline" to "I have to call the hotline twice because the staff does not call back & give me the TAN".

Questions:

ndegendogo commented 2 years ago

Would it change anything, if they had nice music or quiz played for the waiting time?

I think, on the first attempt: no. After a positive test result I need to organize so much else. Notify my friends, family and collegues. Find out how to self-isolate best, and if/how I can continue to work. Organize my daily shoppings. Find out who else needs to be notified and what the current and local regulations are .....

Maybe later when all that is settled, I find time for a second try. And this time with more patience.

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

Good morning @Ein-Tim,

Thanks for reporting.

Twitter reports have changed from: "I have to wait more than 45 min in the hotline" to "I have to call the hotline twice because the staff does not call back & give me the TAN".

Do you have some example links from Twitter?

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@dsarkar

Currently not, I'll search, but no guarantee I'll find them 😅

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Unfortunately, I was wrong im my comment https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-hotline/issues/14#issuecomment-1059333328 four days ago:

[...] There is a chance, that we might reach... ... a plateau...

There is no plateau, the incidences are raising directly.

...soon.

It's not soon, but already happening.

Does anyone know, whether the hotline is prepared to handle an increasing amount of calls in the next weeks?

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Does anyone know, whether the hotline is prepared to handle an increasing amount of calls in the next weeks?

Judging from Twitter reports: No, but it won't be as bad as it was before. I assume max. waiting times of 45 min instead of 2h.

But for sure this is only a prediction from my POV and the truth could be something other.

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

There are many reports in Google Play Store again, that address all the above listed problems:

With the highest respect to all people involved trying their best, but this is ridicoulus and this situation is unworthy of the project and those affected. In my humble opinion, there should be consequences for the people responsible.

@daniel-eder

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn

Judging from Twitter reports, I can only confirm this.

I'll tweet about this today or tomorrow.

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

I'll tweet about this today or tomorrow.

Thanks @Ein-Tim , it's so sad that it's necessary.

daniel-eder commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn I raised this issue again internally. Additionally I would like to refer to my comment above ( https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-hotline/issues/14#issuecomment-974872566 ) as the RKI is the decision maker regarding hotline capacity

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

@daniel-eder Thanks again for your support. In general it looks like that RKI is aware of the situation but does not know how to change it. In this case, handling it from the expert's side (like you did by raising it internally again) is probably the most promising way. But I do agree: Responsible is RKI and the contracted (sub-)companies.

Anyway, thanks again, and I hope you're well in these difficult times.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

This Twitter report (from today!) says:

Bei mir war die Wartezeit heute etwas mehr als 26 Minuten. Aber die Mitarbeiterin muss ich loben: schnell und effektiv! Gesamte Gesprächsdauer inklusive Rückruf und meiner Fragen <3 Minuten 👍

While this report says:

Bin wohl gerade nicht der einzige, der anruft. 45Min. Warteschleife, jetzt um 20:00 war Feierabend. [...]

Very strange... Seems like it's quite dependent on the time of the day when you will have a relatively short waiting time and when a longer one.

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Maybe the TAN hotline is working similar like this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StWeDIBoJt8

😉

Edit; I beg everyone's pardon, but I can't cope better with that serious situation currently.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

If you yourself ever need a TAN: Call the hotline as early as possible, e.g. at 07:05h. Twitter users are reporting that this is the least crowded time, which makes sense.

ndegendogo commented 2 years ago

If you yourself ever need a TAN: Call the hotline as early as possible, e.g. at 07:05h

@Ein-Tim thanks - such hints are useful (although, if everybody follows this advice it will be useless again 😬😬😬)

All experts predict that everybody will be affected some time. I cannot expect to be the exception to that rule. And as soon as I will get a positive result, I will indeed need a TAN, for my secondary phone, as cwa integration covers at most one device ...

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Screenshot_2022-03-16-09-02-52

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

I think it should be enough now. See also https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-app-android/issues/4815#issuecomment-1069196770

Is there a way to increase the pressure on RKI/BMG? @Ein-Tim could you ping Karl Lauterbach, BMG and RKI on Twitter again? @NicoErnst is this subject something that you could report about?

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn I will first write to the mail address again, specifically asking if there are plans to increase capacity.

Please, could you write me a DM via Slack & we discuss the content of the mail?

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

@Ein-Tim I'm about to leave the house for today. Maybe late in night

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn

I'll start drafting a text later on and will send it to you so that you can take a look. No hurries (-:

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn FYI: https://twitter.com/eddieoppermann/status/1504360984097525764?s=21

fällt manchmal schwer: über 30 Minuten in der Warteschleife, um die TAN für den positiven PCR zu bekommen - für SO VIELE MILLIONEN so wenig Vernetzung mit den Testzentren und SO ein altmodisches Verfahren 😭 Aber Chapeau für den freundlichen Mitarbeiter in der „Hot“line.

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

@vaubaehn @Ein-Tim Thanks for the info, will be forwarded.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

I have to admit that this is a very frustrating issue for the community. An easy to solve issue (increase capacity of the hotline) remains unsolved for ca. 5 months. While you certainly know what is the blocker here, we, the community, are left in the dark. This is really not encouraging to continue to contribute, at least to this issue. That's why I I decided to stop updating https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-hotline/issues/14#issuecomment-974631128, as the problem is clear and the situation remains unchanged, for reasons which are not made public in this issue.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

I strongly suggest (and will open a wishlist item for this soon) to think about alternatives for the hotline, e.g.:

AFAIK It was decided to use a hotline, among other things, because a call agent can asses the situation and tell how the other person behaves. However, with agents rushing though the process in less than 3 minutes, this is obviously not the case anymore. Also, it seems like you loose more real warnings with the hotline approach than "fake" warnings are prevented by this.

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Replacing the hotline with an online chat or online form is likely not a good idea because people with handicaps using chats/forms (like old agers, unexperienced people, ...) will be overwhelmed by this way of TAN retrieval. But chats/forms as an addition/complementation to the Hotline could be a good idea to reduce the load on the call center agents in general. But some questions are left open:

Also, it seems like you loose more real warnings with the hotline approach than "fake" warnings are prevented by this.

I would copy this.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Replacing the hotline with an online chat or online form is likely not a good idea because people with handicaps using chats/forms (like old agers, unexperienced people, ...) will be overwhelmed by this way of TAN retrieval.

I get your point, but a hotline is also not a good approach if (what often is the case for elderly people) hearing is damaged, etc.

Without additional funding (if this is the blocker here) I only see two ways: Shut down the hotline and go a different way or leave everything as-is.

Replacing the hotline with an online chat or online form is likely not a good idea because people with handicaps using chats/forms (like old agers, unexperienced people, ...) will be overwhelmed by this way of TAN retrieval.

Agreed

are chats/forms feasible? Agents on the hotline are flexibel to assess/verify the situation for a TAN request in their dialog. A chat would probably result in the same. But can the same be achieved with a form?

The form was only an idea, I rather think a chat would be the best, maybe it could even be implemented right into the app. It would take work from the agents, as the first steps could be performed automatically:

Only then an agent would have to take a look at this and quickly make sure that everything seems plausible. Afterwards the agent issues a TAN and informs the user that all data is deleted during the next 24h (can also be done automatically).

But we probably won't ever see this, so...

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@dsarkar

Regarding https://github.com/corona-warn-app/cwa-hotline/issues/14#issuecomment-1060360866 see e.g.:

https://twitter.com/eintim2/status/1509617797231427589?s=21&t=jVnkzN7hyLcAgzqMSbi5Gg

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Netzpolitik.org wrote an entire article about this hotline mess: https://netzpolitik.org/2022/cwa-tan-hotline-ewige-wartezeiten-bei-der-corona-warn-app-keine-warnung-unter-dieser-nummer/

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

@Ein-Tim Thanks for sharing the link here. Also, your Twitter links are forwarded internally.

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Netzpolitik.org wrote an entire article about this hotline mess: https://netzpolitik.org/2022/cwa-tan-hotline-ewige-wartezeiten-bei-der-corona-warn-app-keine-warnung-unter-dieser-nummer/

The report by Ingo Dachwitz is extraordinarily well done! He reflects the subject for me, and probably many others, from the bottom of my heart.

And I also fully support @Ein-Tim 's tweet: https://twitter.com/eintim2/status/1511580105595830275 It has already been acknowledged and re-tweeted by some well-known persons in the field.

I still hope for some improvement in the future.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@dsarkar Just to add it here, although I'm unsure how useful it is, another report "The hotline did not call back" from today: https://twitter.com/SchwebelR/status/1511760533736808452?s=20&t=Ub-Oh7YwwEJtPQ0UVYhRtg

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

BR24 follows up with another article: https://www.br.de/nachrichten/netzwelt/lange-wartezeiten-bei-der-corona-warn-app-hotline,T2DywRD

vaubaehn commented 2 years ago

Also, via Slack @Ein-Tim pointed me to that article (thanks!), picking up our subject: https://www.mdr.de/nachrichten/deutschland/corona-newsletter-mittwoch-ja-nein-jein-egal-lauterbach-100.html

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

@Ein-Tim @vaubaehn Thanks for sharing these links.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Situation today (08.04.22):

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

Forwarded

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

The situation has improved, no more reports on Twitter. I vote for continuing to monitor the situation and then close this issue. This could get critical again in autumn, when COVID-19 cases may be rising again.

dsarkar commented 2 years ago

@Ein-Tim Thank you very much for your feedback!

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Just chatted with a PCR positive tested person on Twitter, he got a TAN at the hotline and he didn't have to wait longer than 15 seconds in the waiting line.

This problem really fixed itself.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Okay, problem isn't fixed:

@daniel-eder Could you say, where is the problem today? Is there an unusually high call volume or are there few call agents?

daniel-eder commented 2 years ago

@Ein-Tim I do not yet have information for yesterday. It might be something benign (one day with more traffic than expected) - if the issue persists, however, please give me another ping if possible, so I can forward the information to my colleagues again.

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

More reports on this:

FYI @daniel-eder

biophysicslab commented 2 years ago

Problem is not fixed. Own experience:

fyi @daniel-eder , @Ein-Tim

daniel-eder commented 2 years ago

Thanks @Ein-Tim @biophysicslab. Seems something more is going on - I forwarded your feedback and the collected tweets to the colleagues working with the Hotline

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

Informationen from one of my sources:

FYI @vaubaehn & @MikeMcC399

I will comment my opinion on this soon, but currently I'm on vacation and I want to enjoy every minute of it :D

thomasaugsten commented 2 years ago

It would be good to have the test labs which are not providing their results to the CWA

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@thomasaugsten We agree on this point, but we can't force them.

Maybe it makes sense to just shut down the hotline, else this is just a "Trauerspiel" - more cases but less capacity on the hotline. Makes no sense.

thomasaugsten commented 2 years ago

I have no influence on the hotline part I can only help to provide test via CWA Maybe it is a technical and not motivation issue

Ein-Tim commented 2 years ago

@thomasaugsten

Yeah I know that the hotline is unrelated to the CWA SAP team... I have no way to get in touch with the responsible people at the hotline itself, but I know @daniel-eder will relay the information.