csound-flossmanual / csound-floss

The Csound FLOSS Manual
https://flossmanual.csound.com/
GNU General Public License v3.0
21 stars 19 forks source link

03A05 #87

Closed ST-Music closed 2 years ago

ST-Music commented 2 years ago

None of the examples that contain printks show properly in the Messages tab of Csound for Android. I don't know if this is Android specific or not, if so I can open the appropriate ticket.

However, adding the following:

-odac

allows them to show properly.

Sorry for the influx of posts but I'm only a few weeks into learning Csound with no programming experience, and although initially overwhelmed I'm starting to get a grasp on things. The manual is very informative, however seems very hit or miss and strangely jumping between rudimentary to advanced elements and back.

I think many newcomers may find this a little frustrating, for example jumping into somewhat complex randomization in chapter 1 before even introducing an oscillator in chapter 2. Really? And then not delving into envelopes until chapter 5 when chapter 2 goes straight from introducing an oscillator to then setting up external midi instruments? That's a good way to alienate non-academics.

joachimheintz commented 2 years ago

examples 03A04 and 03A05 can not work in real-time (-o dac) on many systems, because ksmps is very unusual (4410 and 5). these examples are only done for printout.

i can understand your frustration, but the csound floss manual is a textbook, not a tutorial. it wants to provide readable information about topics (aspects of the language, sound synthesis, sound modification etc), but it does not (as for instance the classical TOOTS by richard boulanger) go from step to step, from simple to complex.

the BASICS chapter is more about some "basic" topics, but not simple ones to program. perhaps we should move 1D (Random) to another part, but where? but i agree that it can be misleading and overwhelming.

i think the best way to learn csound is: start with a tutorial (some are listed in the links at the end of the floss manual, perhaps there are more recent ones, or videos), and then go into the floss manual, and jump in the chapter which you are interested most.

ST-Music commented 2 years ago

Thank you for the replies, I appreciate them and now understand your perspective regarding the FLOSS manual. Perhaps it would help though to have Chapter 2 moved forward, not really sure where the current Chapter should go. And perhaps have Chapter 2 contain slightly more basics including maybe incorporating the envelopes.

And thanks for the work maintaining the FLOSS manual and examples. Very helpful manual. One note - I may have missed it but it would be nice if the csd and other related files (wav, aiff, pvx etc.) were bundled and more readily available through the Csound and Csounds pages, I only happened across them by chance on github via Google before I joined github. Or perhaps a link in the preface of the manual itself and on the manual front page

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sat, Sep 3, 2022, 5:07 PM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

examples 03A04 and 03A05 can not work in real-time (-o dac) on many systems, because ksmps is very unusual (4410 and 5). these examples are only done for printout.

i can understand your frustration, but the csound floss manual is a textbook, not a tutorial. it wants to provide readable information about topics (aspects of the language, sound synthesis, sound modification etc), but it does not (as for instance the classical TOOTS by richard boulanger) go from step to step, from simple to complex.

the BASICS chapter is more about some "basic" topics, but not simple ones to program. perhaps we should move 1D (Random) to another part, but where? but i agree that it can be misleading and overwhelming.

i think the best way to learn csound is: start with a tutorial (some are listed in the links at the end of the floss manual, perhaps there are more recent ones, or videos), and then go into the floss manual, and jump in the chapter which you are interested most.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236198626, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBSAQONF2WEOAJMUV53V4O4ZTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

joachimheintz commented 2 years ago

i appreciate your comments and suggestions. it helps to improve this manual / textbook, and that's what is always needed.

the csound floss manual is linked on csound.com on various places, for instance under the tab "Learn". can you give concrete suggestiona where it would be good to see it, but it is not there? then we can see if we can convince the admins of these places.

On 04/09/2022 00:57, stmusic wrote:

Thank you for the replies, I appreciate them and now understand your perspective regarding the FLOSS manual. Perhaps it would help though to have Chapter 2 moved forward, not really sure where the current Chapter should go. And perhaps have Chapter 2 contain slightly more basics including maybe incorporating the envelopes.

And thanks for the work maintaining the FLOSS manual and examples. Very helpful manual. One note - I may have missed it but it would be nice if the csd and other related files (wav, aiff, pvx etc.) were bundled and more readily available through the Csound and Csounds pages, I only happened across them by chance on github via Google before I joined github. Or perhaps a link in the preface of the manual itself and on the manual front page

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sat, Sep 3, 2022, 5:07 PM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

examples 03A04 and 03A05 can not work in real-time (-o dac) on many systems, because ksmps is very unusual (4410 and 5). these examples are only done for printout.

i can understand your frustration, but the csound floss manual is a textbook, not a tutorial. it wants to provide readable information about topics (aspects of the language, sound synthesis, sound modification etc), but it does not (as for instance the classical TOOTS by richard boulanger) go from step to step, from simple to complex.

the BASICS chapter is more about some "basic" topics, but not simple ones to program. perhaps we should move 1D (Random) to another part, but where? but i agree that it can be misleading and overwhelming.

i think the best way to learn csound is: start with a tutorial (some are listed in the links at the end of the floss manual, perhaps there are more recent ones, or videos), and then go into the floss manual, and jump in the chapter which you are interested most.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub

https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236198626, or unsubscribe

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBSAQONF2WEOAJMUV53V4O4ZTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236210334, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAQYHKXVAEQ4YOUPW3ZA6ETV4PJXDANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

ST-Music commented 2 years ago

The link to the manual is there but I was referring to also placing a link to all the csd files and necessary wav, aiff, pvx files which could be in a zip file. I know the csd files are shown in the manual but it's extremely time consuming to have to copy and paste every example to a text file and save. Even then some will not play without the wav, aiff files etc. such as some granular examples.

I found them here: https://archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/csoundqt/

In the upper right hand corner there is a box titled Package Actions. If you right click or, on a touch screen device touch and hold, on the link titled "Download from mirror", you can download all the files plus many others. There's is a seperate directory called FLOSS examples. It contains every csd file from the manual as seperate files, very easy to immediately load and play as one goes thru the manual. No time consuming cut and pasting.

The package is designed to go with Csound QT but has really saved time for me and is almost mandatory to take advantage of the manual.

However I had to spend awhile searching for an Android app to properly extract the files.

It would be nice if the one folder called FLOSS Manual Examples (after extraction the folder is under Files/FLOSS Manual Examples) and the files needed which are in Files/usr/share/csoundqt/Examples/SourceMaterials.

Not all files would be necessary to include.

Maybe I have missed something but nowhere in the manual nor on the Csound sites have I found all these files in a single bundle, and a zip is also a good option in my opinion as it is common to most operating systems (I know nothing about Linux).

I would be happy to arrange only the FLOSS files necessary to accompany the manual into a single file so you wouldn't have to do it. I could then send you a link to download it. i

If you were agreeable to that then hopefully you could place it somewhere and try to talk the admins into placing a link to the files next to the link to the manual itself. And also placing a link in the preface of the manual as well as here:

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

I really think this would assist those using the manual and encourage better results, saving learners a lot of time and effort.

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sun, Sep 4, 2022, 3:40 AM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

i appreciate your comments and suggestions. it helps to improve this manual / textbook, and that's what is always needed.

the csound floss manual is linked on csound.com on various places, for instance under the tab "Learn". can you give concrete suggestiona where it would be good to see it, but it is not there? then we can see if we can convince the admins of these places.

On 04/09/2022 00:57, stmusic wrote:

Thank you for the replies, I appreciate them and now understand your perspective regarding the FLOSS manual. Perhaps it would help though to have Chapter 2 moved forward, not really sure where the current Chapter should go. And perhaps have Chapter 2 contain slightly more basics including maybe incorporating the envelopes.

And thanks for the work maintaining the FLOSS manual and examples. Very helpful manual. One note - I may have missed it but it would be nice if the csd and other related files (wav, aiff, pvx etc.) were bundled and more readily available through the Csound and Csounds pages, I only happened across them by chance on github via Google before I joined github. Or perhaps a link in the preface of the manual itself and on the manual front page

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sat, Sep 3, 2022, 5:07 PM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

examples 03A04 and 03A05 can not work in real-time (-o dac) on many systems, because ksmps is very unusual (4410 and 5). these examples are only done for printout.

i can understand your frustration, but the csound floss manual is a textbook, not a tutorial. it wants to provide readable information about topics (aspects of the language, sound synthesis, sound modification etc), but it does not (as for instance the classical TOOTS by richard boulanger) go from step to step, from simple to complex.

the BASICS chapter is more about some "basic" topics, but not simple ones to program. perhaps we should move 1D (Random) to another part, but where? but i agree that it can be misleading and overwhelming.

i think the best way to learn csound is: start with a tutorial (some are listed in the links at the end of the floss manual, perhaps there are more recent ones, or videos), and then go into the floss manual, and jump in the chapter which you are interested most.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub

< https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236198626 , or unsubscribe

< https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBSAQONF2WEOAJMUV53V4O4ZTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY

. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub < https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236210334>,

or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAQYHKXVAEQ4YOUPW3ZA6ETV4PJXDANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236280261, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBRXHLSNX3QIM3W7VBDV4RG7LANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

joachimheintz commented 2 years ago

now i get what you mean. we have this: https://csound-flossmanual.github.io/

there are zip files for the different releases, including csd and source materials. or on the gihub page itself: https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss

the link is on https://flossmanual.csound.com/ probably we should write "Link and zip of all releases" instead.

On 04/09/2022 12:30, stmusic wrote:

The link to the manual is there but I was referring to also placing a link to all the csd files and necessary wav, aiff, pvx files which could be in a zip file. I know the csd files are shown in the manual but it's extremely time consuming to have to copy and paste every example to a text file and save. Even then some will not play without the wav, aiff files etc. such as some granular examples.

I found them here: https://archlinux.org/packages/community/x86_64/csoundqt/

In the upper right hand corner there is a box titled Package Actions. If you right click or, on a touch screen device touch and hold, on the link titled "Download from mirror", you can download all the files plus many others. There's is a seperate directory called FLOSS examples. It contains every csd file from the manual as seperate files, very easy to immediately load and play as one goes thru the manual. No time consuming cut and pasting.

The package is designed to go with Csound QT but has really saved time for me and is almost mandatory to take advantage of the manual.

However I had to spend awhile searching for an Android app to properly extract the files.

It would be nice if the one folder called FLOSS Manual Examples (after extraction the folder is under Files/FLOSS Manual Examples) and the files needed which are in Files/usr/share/csoundqt/Examples/SourceMaterials.

Not all files would be necessary to include.

Maybe I have missed something but nowhere in the manual nor on the Csound sites have I found all these files in a single bundle, and a zip is also a good option in my opinion as it is common to most operating systems (I know nothing about Linux).

I would be happy to arrange only the FLOSS files necessary to accompany the manual into a single file so you wouldn't have to do it. I could then send you a link to download it. i

If you were agreeable to that then hopefully you could place it somewhere and try to talk the admins into placing a link to the files next to the link to the manual itself. And also placing a link in the preface of the manual as well as here:

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

I really think this would assist those using the manual and encourage better results, saving learners a lot of time and effort.

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sun, Sep 4, 2022, 3:40 AM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

i appreciate your comments and suggestions. it helps to improve this manual / textbook, and that's what is always needed.

the csound floss manual is linked on csound.com on various places, for instance under the tab "Learn". can you give concrete suggestiona where it would be good to see it, but it is not there? then we can see if we can convince the admins of these places.

On 04/09/2022 00:57, stmusic wrote:

Thank you for the replies, I appreciate them and now understand your perspective regarding the FLOSS manual. Perhaps it would help though to have Chapter 2 moved forward, not really sure where the current Chapter should go. And perhaps have Chapter 2 contain slightly more basics including maybe incorporating the envelopes.

And thanks for the work maintaining the FLOSS manual and examples. Very helpful manual. One note - I may have missed it but it would be nice if the csd and other related files (wav, aiff, pvx etc.) were bundled and more readily available through the Csound and Csounds pages, I only happened across them by chance on github via Google before I joined github. Or perhaps a link in the preface of the manual itself and on the manual front page

https://flossmanual.csound.com/

Regards,

Scott Daughtrey SToons Music https://soundcloud.com/stoons-1

https://youtube.com/channel/UCGhwmkS1uWmX6mhTIQ0IDsg

On Sat, Sep 3, 2022, 5:07 PM joachimheintz, @.***> wrote:

examples 03A04 and 03A05 can not work in real-time (-o dac) on many systems, because ksmps is very unusual (4410 and 5). these examples are only done for printout.

i can understand your frustration, but the csound floss manual is a textbook, not a tutorial. it wants to provide readable information about topics (aspects of the language, sound synthesis, sound modification etc), but it does not (as for instance the classical TOOTS by richard boulanger) go from step to step, from simple to complex.

the BASICS chapter is more about some "basic" topics, but not simple ones to program. perhaps we should move 1D (Random) to another part, but where? but i agree that it can be misleading and overwhelming.

i think the best way to learn csound is: start with a tutorial (some are listed in the links at the end of the floss manual, perhaps there are more recent ones, or videos), and then go into the floss manual, and jump in the chapter which you are interested most.

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub

<

https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236198626

,

or unsubscribe

<

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBSAQONF2WEOAJMUV53V4O4ZTANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY

. You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <

https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236210334>,

or unsubscribe <

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAQYHKXVAEQ4YOUPW3ZA6ETV4PJXDANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY

. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub

https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236280261, or unsubscribe

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/A23TOBRXHLSNX3QIM3W7VBDV4RG7LANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY . You are receiving this because you authored the thread.Message ID: @.***>

— Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/csound-flossmanual/csound-floss/issues/87#issuecomment-1236307100, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AAQYHKQVJVDB6S227JNC73TV4R25FANCNFSM6AAAAAAQDXSREY. You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: @.***>