Name of the tone marks

[pcchen]

I would suggest to consider other possible naming scheme for the tone mark. Currently, the tone number (2,3,4, etc) is using Taiwanese convention. However, when they are used to write Hakka, a different mapping is used.

For example, Taiwanese tone two mark (U+1B302) is to represent tone three in Hakka. (I don't have the complete mapping in hand.) So it might cause confusing if they are named as "tone two" etc.

I don't have good suggestion for alternatives, but maybe something similar to the IPA tone letters in Unicode. (EXTRA-HIGH TONE, etc https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_letter )

[ctrlcctrlv]

Hmm. But are they always used the same way, for the same type of tone at least? I'm aware that they're not only used to write Taiwanese but I might just have to choose their most common use and name them after that.

[pcchen]

One possibility is to use "Taiwanese tone two" etc. Then one can say "Katakana Taiwanese tone two" is used to represent "Hakka tone three" or something like that.

[ctrlcctrlv]

So, re-add the word Hokkien which I had there before :-)

[pcchen]

I would suggest to use "Taiwanese" instead of "Hokkien".

In Taiwan, people do not use "Hokkien" to refer to Taiwanese. The "Hokkien" is mainly used in south east Asia to refer to the "Southern min". However, "Hokkien" is also the name of the province and there are many different language in Hokkien province (they are related to Southern min/Taiwanese but not Mutually intelligible.) Since Kana is mainly used for Taiwanese in Taiwan. Taiwanese is a better choice.

[pcchen]

hmm I assume you read this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwanese_Hokkien

I think all the following are more common: Taiwanese Minnan=Taiwanese Southern Min, Holo, Taiwanese, or Taigi

I almost never encounter the term "Taiwanese Hokkien" in Taiwan.

[ctrlcctrlv]

The problem with that is the largest source ackknowledges the Quanzhou dialect and even includes special kana for writing it. So that's why I had put Hokkien there.

Remember that Unicode character names don't necessarily have to be the same as the names that are used by users...e.g. The choonpu has a quite strange Unicode name...

[ctrlcctrlv]

I'd also be okay with Minnan

[ctrlcctrlv]

Or even Southern Min if you prefer one of those

[pcchen]

"the largest source ackknowledges the Quanzhou dialect and even includes special kana for writing it. " Can you point me to the source of this ? Thanks.

Do they refer to the Quanzhou dialect spoken in Taiwan?

[pcchen]

My personal preference would be Taiwanese > bân-lâm > min-nan > Southern Min > Hokkien. But this only my personal preference.

[ctrlcctrlv]

Would you still like Bân-lâm even though Unicode names must be ASCII?

[ctrlcctrlv]

And I'll find the source for you later today. Do you speak Japanese? It's the one I can Âng and Ogawa in the paper

[pcchen]

To be frank. The "name" of the this language is a sensitive issue here. If ascii only: Taiwanese > Tai-gi > ban-lam > min-nan > Southern Min > Hokkien. You should probably consult more people.

[pcchen]

I don't speak Japanese. But I probably can decipher the Quanzhou dialect literature....

[ctrlcctrlv]

Right, my primary concern is that I don't want to exclude the mainland entirely in the glyph names. If you could ask in the group, I'd appreciate that.

[pcchen]

Hmm it seems that "Taiwanese Hokkien" is used more commonly as I thought. As my friend point me to some literatures. If you do a search in Amazon, there are many results....

[ctrlcctrlv]

Adequately addressed in latest revision considering comments from subject matter expert Eiso Chan: Min Nan ought to be used as it's used by ISO 639-3. Closing.