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Text of BnF Ms Fr 640 in multiple formats, metadata about the manuscript, and derived data
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Fol. 52r - misplaced parenthesis in translation #1597

Closed ps2270 closed 4 years ago

ps2270 commented 4 years ago

Fol. 52r - Diplomatic: "(germe) voy)"

TN: le germe (voy)

TL: the germ (see)

Shouldn't TN and TL mirror TC?? We don't know what the a-p meant, so why try to interpret this?

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

I think we're allowed to interpret, but you definitely found an error. I think it should be: TC: le (germe) voy) TCN: le (germe) voy<corr><del>)</del></corr> TL: the (germ) see<corr><del>)</del></corr>

ps2270 commented 4 years ago

Agreed that we're allowed to interpret, but why do it here?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 4:26 PM thuchacz notifications@github.com wrote:

I think we're allowed to interpret, but you definitely found an error. I think it should be: TC: le (germe) voy) TCN: le (germe) voy) TL: the (germ) see)

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-- Pamela H. Smith Seth Low Professor of History http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/smith-pamela-h/ The Making and Knowing Project

Director, Center for Science and Society http://scienceandsociety.columbia.edu/ Chair, Presidential Scholars in Society and Neuroscience https://presidentialscholars.columbia.edu/ Columbia University 605 Fayerweather Hall, MC 2516 1180 Amsterdam Avenue New York, N.Y. 10027 (212) 854-7662-Phone (212) 851-5963-Fax ps2270@columbia.edu

The Making and Knowing Project has just released Secrets of Craft and Nature in Renaissance France: A Digital Critical Edition and English Translation of BnF Ms. Fr. 640: http://edition640.makingandknowing.org

Entangled Itineraries: Materials, Practices, and Knowledges across Eurasia https://www.upress.pitt.edu/books/9780822965770/ is now available. The Body of the Artisan http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo3618964.html has been reissued in paperback and electronic editions. The Business of Alchemy https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10868.html is available in a new paperback.

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

Because there is a bracket missing. This is not the only instance. If you don't want us to use a corr/del combo, then we could always attach an editorial comment that points to this strange punctuation. But I don't think we should leave it uneditorialized in the TCN and TL.

TillmannTaape commented 4 years ago

I agree with Tianna, it's clearly a scribo where the a-p misplaced his parentheses, and we should signal this in TCN and TL with corr/del.

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

The strange thing is, it seems like the "voy" should be in brackets rather than the "germe." If we think that's the case, then we can corr/dell both brackets around germe and corr (i.e., add) one before "voy."

TillmannTaape commented 4 years ago

I think I agree, are you proposing this the following?

TCN: le <corr><del>(</del></corr>germe<corr><del>)</del></corr> <corr>(</corr>voy)

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

more or less. It would be: TCN: le (germe) [(]voy)

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:45 PM Tillmann Taape notifications@github.com wrote:

I think I agree, are you proposing this the following?

TCN: le (germe) (voy)

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ps2270 commented 4 years ago

Here's my interpretation: He is unsure of whether he means le "germe" thus he puts it in brackets, and then reminds himself to see and come back to this, so he also brackets "voy". It's not really a separate bracket, but is related to his "germe" uncertainty, so it seems more understandable/indeterminate to me to leave it as it is in the TC despite it's irregularity. See what I mean?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:52 PM thuchacz notifications@github.com wrote:

more or less. It would be: TCN: le (germe) [(]voy)

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:45 PM Tillmann Taape notifications@github.com wrote:

I think I agree, are you proposing this the following?

TCN: le (germe) (voy)

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.

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-- Pamela H. Smith Seth Low Professor of History http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/smith-pamela-h/ The Making and Knowing Project

Director, Center for Science and Society http://scienceandsociety.columbia.edu/ Chair, Presidential Scholars in Society and Neuroscience https://presidentialscholars.columbia.edu/ Columbia University 605 Fayerweather Hall, MC 2516 1180 Amsterdam Avenue New York, N.Y. 10027 (212) 854-7662-Phone (212) 851-5963-Fax ps2270@columbia.edu

The Making and Knowing Project has just released Secrets of Craft and Nature in Renaissance France: A Digital Critical Edition and English Translation of BnF Ms. Fr. 640: http://edition640.makingandknowing.org

Entangled Itineraries: Materials, Practices, and Knowledges across Eurasia https://www.upress.pitt.edu/books/9780822965770/ is now available. The Body of the Artisan http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo3618964.html has been reissued in paperback and electronic editions. The Business of Alchemy https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10868.html is available in a new paperback.

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

I understand what you are saying, Pamela, but upon reflection, I think it would be best to attach an editorial comment to the second, half-bracketing after "voy" that says something like: "this unusual sequence of parentheses seems to indicate an uncertainty, and the author-practitioner may have intended to return to this point at a later time."

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:39 PM Pamela Smith notifications@github.com wrote:

Here's my interpretation: He is unsure of whether he means le "germe" thus he puts it in brackets, and then reminds himself to see and come back to this, so he also brackets "voy". It's not really a separate bracket, but is related to his "germe" uncertainty, so it seems more understandable/indeterminate to me to leave it as it is in the TC despite it's irregularity. See what I mean?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:52 PM thuchacz notifications@github.com wrote:

more or less. It would be: TCN: le (germe) [(]voy)

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:45 PM Tillmann Taape notifications@github.com wrote:

I think I agree, are you proposing this the following?

TCN: le (germe) (voy)

— You are receiving this because you were assigned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <

https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610053402

, or unsubscribe <

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFTLQATRMWDP225RZNS5W6TRLJEPFANCNFSM4MCSG33Q

.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub < https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610056175 , or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AF75UYDKCGGOGOONVXPR2WTRLJFI3ANCNFSM4MCSG33Q

.

-- Pamela H. Smith Seth Low Professor of History http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/smith-pamela-h/ The Making and Knowing Project

Director, Center for Science and Society http://scienceandsociety.columbia.edu/ Chair, Presidential Scholars in Society and Neuroscience https://presidentialscholars.columbia.edu/ Columbia University 605 Fayerweather Hall, MC 2516 1180 Amsterdam Avenue New York, N.Y. 10027 (212) 854-7662-Phone (212) 851-5963-Fax ps2270@columbia.edu

The Making and Knowing Project has just released Secrets of Craft and Nature in Renaissance France: A Digital Critical Edition and English Translation of BnF Ms. Fr. 640: http://edition640.makingandknowing.org

Entangled Itineraries: Materials, Practices, and Knowledges across Eurasia https://www.upress.pitt.edu/books/9780822965770/ is now available. The Body of the Artisan http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo3618964.html has been reissued in paperback and electronic editions. The Business of Alchemy https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10868.html is available in a new paperback.

— You are receiving this because you were assigned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610073427, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFTLQAQECDOEXMGSAYDDVG3RLJKYLANCNFSM4MCSG33Q .

ps2270 commented 4 years ago

I agree. Thanks for the suggestion. Can you pls add to editorial comments?

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 7:49 AM thuchacz notifications@github.com wrote:

I understand what you are saying, Pamela, but upon reflection, I think it would be best to attach an editorial comment to the second, half-bracketing after "voy" that says something like: "this unusual sequence of parenthesis seems to indicate an uncertainty, and the author-practitioner may have intended to return to this point at a later time."

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 6:39 PM Pamela Smith notifications@github.com wrote:

Here's my interpretation: He is unsure of whether he means le "germe" thus he puts it in brackets, and then reminds himself to see and come back to this, so he also brackets "voy". It's not really a separate bracket, but is related to his "germe" uncertainty, so it seems more understandable/indeterminate to me to leave it as it is in the TC despite it's irregularity. See what I mean?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:52 PM thuchacz notifications@github.com wrote:

more or less. It would be: TCN: le (germe) [(]voy)

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 5:45 PM Tillmann Taape < notifications@github.com> wrote:

I think I agree, are you proposing this the following?

TCN: le (germe) (voy)

— You are receiving this because you were assigned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <

https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610053402

, or unsubscribe <

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFTLQATRMWDP225RZNS5W6TRLJEPFANCNFSM4MCSG33Q

.

— You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <

https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610056175

, or unsubscribe <

https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AF75UYDKCGGOGOONVXPR2WTRLJFI3ANCNFSM4MCSG33Q

.

-- Pamela H. Smith Seth Low Professor of History http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/smith-pamela-h/ The Making and Knowing Project

Director, Center for Science and Society http://scienceandsociety.columbia.edu/ Chair, Presidential Scholars in Society and Neuroscience https://presidentialscholars.columbia.edu/ Columbia University 605 Fayerweather Hall, MC 2516 1180 Amsterdam Avenue New York, N.Y. 10027 (212) 854-7662-Phone (212) 851-5963-Fax ps2270@columbia.edu

The Making and Knowing Project has just released Secrets of Craft and Nature in Renaissance France: A Digital Critical Edition and English Translation of BnF Ms. Fr. 640: http://edition640.makingandknowing.org

Entangled Itineraries: Materials, Practices, and Knowledges across Eurasia https://www.upress.pitt.edu/books/9780822965770/ is now available. The Body of the Artisan http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo3618964.html has been reissued in paperback and electronic editions. The Business of Alchemy https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10868.html is available in a new paperback.

— You are receiving this because you were assigned. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub < https://github.com/cu-mkp/m-k-manuscript-data/issues/1597#issuecomment-610073427 , or unsubscribe < https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AFTLQAQECDOEXMGSAYDDVG3RLJKYLANCNFSM4MCSG33Q

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-- Pamela H. Smith Seth Low Professor of History http://history.columbia.edu/faculty/smith-pamela-h/ The Making and Knowing Project

Director, Center for Science and Society http://scienceandsociety.columbia.edu/ Chair, Presidential Scholars in Society and Neuroscience https://presidentialscholars.columbia.edu/ Columbia University 605 Fayerweather Hall, MC 2516 1180 Amsterdam Avenue New York, N.Y. 10027 (212) 854-7662-Phone (212) 851-5963-Fax ps2270@columbia.edu

The Making and Knowing Project has just released Secrets of Craft and Nature in Renaissance France: A Digital Critical Edition and English Translation of BnF Ms. Fr. 640: http://edition640.makingandknowing.org

Entangled Itineraries: Materials, Practices, and Knowledges across Eurasia https://www.upress.pitt.edu/books/9780822965770/ is now available. The Body of the Artisan http://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/B/bo3618964.html has been reissued in paperback and electronic editions. The Business of Alchemy https://press.princeton.edu/titles/10868.html is available in a new paperback.

thuchacz commented 4 years ago

I can add it to the table, but I cannot put the requisite comment anchors in the text at this time, since we're not allowed to touch the xml. @njr2128, any thoughts?