search

cuban-opensourcers / cuban-restricted

Awesome list about tech sites/services restricted for Cuba
https://cuban-opensourcers.github.io/cuban-restricted/
71 stars 22 forks source link

Inclussion of a "reverse-restriction" section #47

Open HugoFlorentino opened 2 years ago

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

Some technology sites fail to load not because of embargo, but because of restrictions imposed by Cuban telecoms. It would be proper to add a section to display those cases.

PhaserEditor2D commented 2 years ago

Hi @HugoFlorentino!

For example, what sites? Never found one in my daily software development.

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

Check https://github.com/cuban-opensourcers/cuban-restricted/issues/8 (now closed) as an example.

enielrodriguez commented 2 years ago

"Reverse-restriction"? Seriously?! What will be next? Internal blockade?

Unity Terms of Service:

  1. Your Responsibilities (...) you are not located in a country embargoed by the United States and that you are not on the U.S. Treasury Department's list of Specially Designated Nationals (...)

Regarding Microsoft and Epic Games, the user made it clear, however: Microsoft Terms of Use: Microsoft technologies, products, and services are subject to US Export rules (...) It is Microsoft policy to comply with EAR, OFAC rules (...)

Unreal Engine EULA for Creators:

  1. Export Compliance You agree to comply with all applicable federal and foreign laws, regulations, and rules (...) You will obtain any necessary export license or other governmental approval (...) You represent and warrant that you do not appear on any United States list of prohibited or restricted parties (including the Specially Designated Nationals List).

About ABC.es, I just visited it without problems. However, it is a newspaper, one of the many newspapers that does not mention, or minimize, the blockade against Cuba, instead it does campaign against the Cuban government. The only sites that Cuba censors, recognized in the national media, are some of the so-called independent newspapers, with proven foreign funding and organization. Anyway, is this project about this kind of website?

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

This project is intended to show technology/service sites which fail to load properly from Cuban IP address blocks. Most of the times access is forbidden because of US embargo, but from time to time it's Cuba who blocks access to a few sites.

Restrictions made by either side, regardless of motivations, are equally bad for people.

PhaserEditor2D commented 2 years ago

This project is about software, not about media. Both are important, but I think you can create your own list of banned media in Cuba.

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

This project is about software, not about media. Both are important, but I think you can create your own list of banned media in Cuba.

Correct. Software and services related to technology. For example, Cuba denied for years outgoing access to sites such as revolico.com where people looked for computer parts and services which often could not be obtained elsewhere.

PhaserEditor2D commented 2 years ago

Revolico has more sense. If there are services related to software and programming that are banned in Cuba I think it can be listed here (if the community agrees, sure).

enielrodriguez commented 2 years ago

This project is about software, not about media. Both are important, but I think you can create your own list of banned media in Cuba.

Correct. Software and services related to technology. For example, Cuba denied for years outgoing access to sites such as revolico.com where people looked for computer parts and services which often could not be obtained elsewhere.

Coincidentally, a few years ago (I think I was still in college), I saw with my own eyes publications in Revolico making political propaganda against the government. Not to mention that it did not comply with Cuban legislation, it was common to find illegal products. Anyway, something happened that the government ended up removing the restriction, perhaps it was legal changes, or Revolico improved moderation. Any other site that does not violate Cuban laws and that is blocked by Cuba? It really interests me. BR

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

Forbidding access to a community-driven site because a few people from time to time may post improper content is as counter-productive as forbidding a knife manufacturer to sell products because someone might use them to hurt another people, or preventing Internet access altogether to everyone because it might be used by a few to conspire against the government.

Moderation is certainly useful in public services, but it's not always possible with community-driven sites, because it might require a team working full-time in this when there is high demand.

enielrodriguez commented 2 years ago

Forbidding access to a community-driven site because a few people from time to time may post improper content is as counter-productive as forbidding a knife manufacturer to sell products because someone might use them to hurt another people, or preventing Internet access altogether to everyone because it might be used by a few to conspire against the government.

Moderation is certainly useful in public services, but it's not always possible with community-driven sites, because it might require a team working full-time in this when there is high demand.

There are millions of dollars dedicated to building knives against Cuba, and many have already been built. Does Piramideo.es or ZunZuneo sound familiar to you? We cannot demand moderate reactions from a systematic knife victim.

If you don't know, we are talking about a site operated from Spain for Cuba. How many times has this been done without ulterior motives? Anyway, this proposal is based on assumptions that turned out to be false (see my first comment), and now on a site with questionable legality and moderation, and which is also no longer blocked.

I still don't see an argument, or proof, that supports the request for a "reverse-restriction" section or the statement "Some TECHNOLOGY sites fail to load not because of embargo". BR

HugoFlorentino commented 2 years ago

Forbidding access to a community-driven site because a few people from time to time may post improper content is as counter-productive as forbidding a knife manufacturer to sell products because someone might use them to hurt another people, or preventing Internet access altogether to everyone because it might be used by a few to conspire against the government. Moderation is certainly useful in public services, but it's not always possible with community-driven sites, because it might require a team working full-time in this when there is high demand.

There are millions of dollars dedicated to building knives against Cuba, and many have already been built. Does Piramideo.es or ZunZuneo sound familiar to you? We cannot demand moderate reactions from a systematic knife victim.

If you don't know, we are talking about a site operated from Spain for Cuba. How many times has this been done without ulterior motives? Anyway, this proposal is based on assumptions that turned out to be false (see my first comment), and now on a site with questionable legality and moderation, and which is also no longer blocked.

I still don't see an argument, or proof, that supports the request for a "reverse-restriction" section or the statement "Some TECHNOLOGY sites fail to load not because of embargo". BR

You probably don't realize this, but you are the one trying to turn this issue into a political one, ggg.

ofarrill commented 1 year ago

This project is about software, not about media. Both are important, but I think you can create your own list of banned media in Cuba.

Correct. Software and services related to technology. For example, Cuba denied for years outgoing access to sites such as revolico.com where people looked for computer parts and services which often could not be obtained elsewhere.

revolico.com is and never was blocked by Cuba.

enielrodriguez commented 1 year ago

You probably don't realize this, but you are the one trying to turn this issue into a political one, ggg.

It's been a while, I saw this answer thanks to a new comment that was notified to me, and I think I should make something clear. We are here for political reasons, even if we are not aware of it.

The initial list of software or services supposedly blocked by Cuba, and on which you base your request, is incorrect, I did not use political arguments but quotes to their terms and conditions. Then you ran out of examples to support the petition, and you appealed to the revolico case, which probably did not comply with Cuban laws at the time (buying and selling, including currency, job offers, even sexual), and it didn't always have the "Report ad" button, so it's false that it had moderation, it wasn't always like that.
You can use Internet Archive and check what I say.
For those who don't know, any service that wants to operate in a country or region must comply with its laws, no matter how "absurd" they may seem to us.

But again, that's a non-existent case, please provide a current one, other than a media outlet. By appealing to non-existent cases, you give the impression that you are more politically motivated than I am.

HugoFlorentino commented 1 year ago

I have no desire to argue, since Cuba has been applying so much traffic shaping lately that most of the Internet is often unreachable for all practical purposes, and it's not because of bandwidth, because content can be reached normally when a VPN is used. So please, spare us the lecure on political motivations.

ofarrill commented 1 year ago

You really have the impudence to come here to a page where we - who are so much affected by an inhumane, total blockade - collect the services for which we have to take additional measures and lecture us that our government is allegedly traffic shaping, just to be able to claim that both sides would equally restrict Internet freedom, without even presenting any proof. Not that our little island has to lay a submarine cable over 1600km to Venezuela, because the US administration in its quest for alleged freedom denies the short connection route of 150km to Florida. If this was really about freedom, then let us finally develop in peace, but instead the US treat us like their prisoners. How were you able to get rid so easy of an own opinion and just parrot official US speech?