Remove Number Scramble Hotkeys

[Sonicpineapple]

Change the short scrambles to be menu items only, to prevent accidental scrambles while pressing undo/redo and a slice mask. (Has happened to me on several occasions, and to others, causing entire solve loss)

[cutelyaware]

Has this actually happened to you? You still need to hold the ctrl button, and the number keys are far from it, unlike undo/redo, so I don't see a problem.

[Sonicpineapple]

Many many times. I have undo/redo on mouse buttons, and that still counts as holding ctrl, so it happens extra easily to me. But just yesterday in VC on the discord, it happened to three of us in succession.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 09:28, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

Has this actually happened to you? You still need to hold the ctrl button, and the number keys are far from it, unlike undo/redo, so I don't see a problem.

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[cutelyaware]

Please tell me more about undo/redo on your mouse buttons, and how that counts as holding ctrl. Have you programmed your mouse to echo these keystrokes and do all of you have the same mouse and doing the same thing?

[Sonicpineapple]

I have two buttons bound to the undo and redo commands, and my mouse software handles the keyboard shortcut for me. As far as I know I was the only one using such a binding, the others were on keyboard as normal.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 17:47, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

Please tell me more about undo/redo on your mouse buttons, and how that counts as holding ctrl. Have you programmed your mouse to echo these keystrokes and do all of you have the same mouse and doing the same thing?

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[cutelyaware]

But why does that act as the ctrl key? I'm still quite confused.

[Sonicpineapple]

I'm pretty sure it sends ctrl-z behind the scenes somehow. I haven't explicitly set it to, but it causes ctrl functions in other windows and games too.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 18:18, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

But why does that act as the ctrl key? I'm still quite confused.

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[cutelyaware]

Then it sounds like the problem is with the mouse or the way you're using it, and not MC4D.

[Sonicpineapple]

The point is that there is no need to have a ctrl-number hotkey for something that can accidentally reset the entire puzzle, especially when ctrl and number keys are both things that are pressed often, especially on larger puzzles. Like I said, it has happened to others not using separate keybinds/mouse buttons, and has happened to me before using my mouse this way too, though it does definitely happen more often that way. Losing hours of work or resetting a pb solve accidentally is really painful for a feature that doesn't even get used.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 19:12, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

Then it sounds like the problem is with the mouse or the way you're using it, and not MC4D.

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[cutelyaware]

I don't collect usage statistics because that feels gross, but I know that beginners use the small scrambles a lot, and reset should be useful for algorithm development. Please ask the others to add their opinions here especially as you feel that your situation is different from theirs.

I don't see how I'd be accidentally hitting ctrl-num, so I'm trying to understand how this happens for you. I have lost valuable work in many different applications and know how painful that can be which is how I learned to save often and make regular back-ups. In this case I'd use 'save-as' at major milestones, and use 'save' pretty regularly. Even if you never accidentally give destructive commands, you can still suffer program and computer crashes, so I expect you'd at least want to be making regular saves. Either way, I'd think you'd want to understand what's happening with your mouse and consider undoing those keyboard bindings if you can't keep them from biting you.

[Sonicpineapple]

The bindings are immensely useful for solving, and in programs such as MPUlt which have no hotkey for short scrambles, they don't cause any problems. I do make saves after completing steps, but it often happens mid-step, and obviously saving does nothing for a speedsolve, where it happens more due to rushing. Even without the keybind though, I've had it happen while actually pressing ctrl-Z, or while using ctrl as a rotation, usually because I'm still holding down the slice mask for the twist I'm undoing.

My changes don't remove the number scrambles, only the ctrl hotkeys for them. They're still present in the menu, since I remember using them a lot for understanding the puzzles in the beginning. The reset ctrl-0 is untouched too, since 0 isn't a slice mask you use.

I do agree that getting other people's opinions is valuable. Perhaps bringing it up on the discord would get more engagement?

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 20:11, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

I don't collect usage statistics because that feels gross, but I know that beginners use the small scrambles a lot, and reset should be useful for algorithm development. Please ask the others to add their opinions here especially as you feel that your situation is different from theirs.

I don't see how I'd be accidentally hitting ctrl-num, so I'm trying to understand how this happens for you. I have lost valuable work in many different applications and know how painful that can be which is how I learned to save often and make regular back-ups. In this case I'd use 'save-as' at major milestones, and use 'save' pretty regularly. Even if you never accidentally give destructive commands, you can still suffer program and computer crashes, so I expect you'd at least want to be making regular saves. Either way, I'd think you'd want to understand what's happening with your mouse and consider undoing those keyboard bindings if you can't keep them from biting you.

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[cutelyaware]

Less frequent saving during speedsolving sounds like a reasonable calculated risk. Of course you need to be the master of your tools, and that's a big part of the challenge, even with physical puzzles. Especially with physical puzzles. (No save at all!)

If you're holding a slice number, ctrl won't do anything. The ctrl needs to come first, so it sounds like you don't completely know how you're getting a scramble.

So let's get some additional perspective from the others. I can ask them if you prefer, though it seems like it should come from you since you created the issue and are reporting on what you've seen/heard from them. I'd prefer to have the record here, but we can do it on Discord if that feels better for you folks.

[Sonicpineapple]

Interesting that it doesn't work if ctrl isn't first. That means I must be still holding it, going to undo, realising I need to let go and then repressing too early. I just know that it's usually the undoing of a slice turn that causes it to happen. Perhaps if you don't want it removed, making holding ctrl-z prevent the scrambles from working would mitigate it somewhat.

I asked Blobinati, and he said it happened when using ctrl to do a rotation, not letting go of it early enough when preparing the slice mask for the next move. I've not yet heard anyone saying that they actively make use of the hotkeys, or complaining that programs like MPUlt don't have them. I feel I've heard others comment on it, especially since it's happened to me a few times while in VC with people meaning it comes up, but I can't think of any more specifics.

It's true that it feels like a fumble when you do it, but at least with fumbling a real cube you don't get everything reset instantly.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 22:05, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

Less frequent saving during speedsolving sounds like a reasonable calculated risk. Of course you need to be the master of your tools, and that's a big part of the challenge, even with physical puzzles. Especially with physical puzzles. (No save at all!)

If you're holding a slice number, ctrl won't do anything. The ctrl needs to come first, so it sounds like you don't completely know how you're getting a scramble.

So let's get some additional perspective from the others. I can ask them if you prefer, though it seems like it should come from you since you created the issue and are reporting on what you've seen/heard from them. I'd prefer to have the record here, but we can do it on Discord if that feels better for you folks.

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[Sonicpineapple]

I've also just noticed while experimenting that holding several number keys, then pressing ctrl, then unpressing certain ones can cause a number scramble too, probably from a keyboard multi-key restriction being released. That's partially a hardware issue, but most keyboards have something similar. My mouse bind also seems to cause scrambles when pressing it second, for reasons I don't understand.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 22:21, Luna Harran @.***> wrote:

Interesting that it doesn't work if ctrl isn't first. That means I must be still holding it, going to undo, realising I need to let go and then repressing too early. I just know that it's usually the undoing of a slice turn that causes it to happen. Perhaps if you don't want it removed, making holding ctrl-z prevent the scrambles from working would mitigate it somewhat.

I asked Blobinati, and he said it happened when using ctrl to do a rotation, not letting go of it early enough when preparing the slice mask for the next move. I've not yet heard anyone saying that they actively make use of the hotkeys, or complaining that programs like MPUlt don't have them. I feel I've heard others comment on it, especially since it's happened to me a few times while in VC with people meaning it comes up, but I can't think of any more specifics.

It's true that it feels like a fumble when you do it, but at least with fumbling a real cube you don't get everything reset instantly.

On Mon, 23 Aug 2021 at 22:05, Melinda Green @.***> wrote:

Less frequent saving during speedsolving sounds like a reasonable calculated risk. Of course you need to be the master of your tools, and that's a big part of the challenge, even with physical puzzles. Especially with physical puzzles. (No save at all!)

If you're holding a slice number, ctrl won't do anything. The ctrl needs to come first, so it sounds like you don't completely know how you're getting a scramble.

So let's get some additional perspective from the others. I can ask them if you prefer, though it seems like it should come from you since you created the issue and are reporting on what you've seen/heard from them. I'd prefer to have the record here, but we can do it on Discord if that feels better for you folks.

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