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New "custom modes" feature (supersedes "presets") #304

Closed GoogleCodeExporter closed 9 years ago

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
# Introduction

I'm opening this issue to collect all enhancement requests and proposals about 
presets, and preset a proposal for a new model. For starters, these are the 
limitations I'd like to address here:

* Loading a preset should be faster.
* We have a self-imposed limit of nine presets.
* Presets are not independent modes, but a method to set the camera back to a 
previous situation.
* Presets are similar to custom modes in other cameras, but there are still 
some differences, and I think we can do better here.

# New name

Since we are going to emulate how custom modes work on higher-end cameras, 
"Presets" will be renamed to "Custom Modes". 

# A-DEP

We abandon the use of A-DEP mode as a special mode for presets, and each custom 
mode will now be associated to a specific position of the dial in the auto 
zone: no more selecting a preset from the menu, thus. We will have seven fixed 
custom modes, then: "Auto", "Portrait", "Landscape", "Macro", "Sports, "Night", 
and "No Flash". Users will be able to save a custom mode in each auto mode, or 
just leave it as it is and use it as Canon intended.

I still think A-DEP is the most absurd mode ever created, I do not even know 
why it is part of the creative modes; but now that we will no longer use it for 
the presets, it is again free to be abused. We can use it as an auto mode, and 
associate a custom mode to it, or we can leave it as the creative mode it is, 
just in case somebody needs it; perhaps we will find and interesting use for it 
sometime in the future. I vote to keep it as a creative mode and move along.

# Custom Banks

In this scenario, we move from nine presets to seven custom modes; but we do 
not want to reduce the current functionality. So perhaps we could use several 
"banks of custom modes": users can select which custom bank to use, and all 
operations related to custom modes have an effect only in the context of the 
active custom bank. With five custom banks, for example, we get a total of 35 
custom modes; and that ought to be enough for anybody...

# Renaming

Initially, each custom mode will be named after one scene mode: after all, each 
custom mode is associated to a position of the main dial, and the user needs to 
be aware of that link at every moment. However, I see the need to rename custom 
modes, for example when none of the scene modes matches the intended use for 
the custom mode. But the interface can get quite complex if we need to maintain 
/ display two names at the same time; on the other hand, let's not forget that 
even higher-end camera just name custom modes "C1", "C2", and "C3", with no 
option to change that.

Perhaps if we could display the icon associated to each scene mode, this would 
be doable; but unless we come up with a good solution, names to custom modes 
will be fixed. I do not see any reason why custom banks cannot be renamed.

# Auto-update

Some cameras have a cool feature to auto-update the active custom mode when you 
change some setting in the camera. I think we could do this, it does not seem 
too complex to code; but as we store custom modes on the card, we would need to 
write to the card each time the user makes a
change. That could kill the card quite fast, and make the camera act slower. 
Perhaps we could record only at fixed intervals (once every five seconds, but 
only if the user changed anything, for example), or just before the camera 
shuts down or changes to another mode (seems complex).

# Menus

This is how I think the "Custom modes" page in the menu should look:

 > Save status to
   > Auto
   > Portrait
   > Landscape
   > Macro
   > Sports
   > Night
   > No Flash
 > Update current
 > Delete current
 > Custom banks
   > Custom bank 1
   > Custom bank 2
   > ... 
     > Load
     > Rename
     > Delete

# Dependencies

Before we make all this possible, issue #164 - "Restore settings after going to 
preset mode and back" must be fixed first; I'm already working on it.

# References

* Issue #135: Make scene modes more functional
* Issue #298: Add the ability to use one of several preset banks 
* Canon EOS 5D Mark III Instruction Manual: 
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_5d_mark_
iii?selectedName=BrochuresAndManuals

Original issue reported on code.google.com by eduardo....@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:19

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Issue 135 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:21

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Issue 298 has been merged into this issue.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:22

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
I like this.

Just one addition which may be implemented in future: like in issue #46 we can 
make the configurations in text file (ini). I'm going to work on issue #46 
soon, since it's a bit irritating to have my settings file reset each time we 
change something. Other issue that I have in mind is issue #111, which may be 
used here too.

Original comment by fired...@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 3:55

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
My take:

This will take some serious thought as it is a big departure from current 
usage.  But if one can just imagine that their Auto Scene Modes are really just 
C1, C2, C3, C4, etc. or they are not changed at all then it makes a lot of 
sense!

# Introduction - Addressing limitations as the software gains features is a 
good thing.  You code what works and seems best at the time and later after 
plenty of use in the field by a larger user base - new and better ideas come to 
mind and improve the use of the software immensely.  I like!

# New name - I think the name "Custom Modes" is a fine idea.  "Presets" still 
also works just fine for me and is not confusing - just don't want to have the 
word "Settings" in there anywhere I suppose.

# A-DEP - I like what you propose - however I personally would never use the 
"Auto" or "No Flash" modes for a Custom Mode (personal reasons) so that would 
really only leave me with five (5) settings which is fine by me.  It seems 
A-DEP should at least have the option to be used for something else - it seems 
worthless (absurd as you say) as it is designed from Canon.

# Custom Banks - Seems rather complicated to me but maybe I just don't have my 
head wrapped around it yet since I have never seen such an implementation on 
another camera.  Could be I just need to see some screens of how it will 
eventually work.  Personally I have no interest in having more than the 
previous 9 modes (actually 5 is enough and realistic) but that is just me and 
lots of people use 400plus and will want more.

# Renaming - An Icon display associated to each scene mode would be great at 
Rename, or at least just a letter or indicator or something (P), (L), (M), (S), 
(N)...  Might as well keep the Rename feature since it is already coded and 
very nice to use - unless this interferes with obsolete settings after updates. 
I realize that C1, C2, C3 are all you get in higher end cameras but 400plus can 
be better than that using Rename.

# Auto-update - I am not particularly in favor of this myself unless the 
"Auto-Update" feature was a setting that I could enable/disable for Custom 
Modes.  Just seems too easy to make a quick change that I didn't want saved to 
a Custom Mode for a shot or two without moving the Mode dial, and then all of 
the sudden it is now permanent for that Custom Mode.  Others will like this 
though - so having an Auto-Update (Yes/No) setting would be a nice touch.  
Coding seems like it would be quite complex and risky for interval'ed saves.

# Menus - Looks nice to me - very structured as expected.

# Dependencies - n/a

# References - n/a

Original comment by mike.guf...@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 8:03

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
[deleted comment]
GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 9:08

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Issue #46: I do not plan to change the way we store presets / custom modes; so 
we can do #46 before or after this one, and there will be absolutely no 
interference.

Issue #111: Yes, we are going to create more files; we definitively need a 
separate folder. I'm marking this one as blocked on that one, too.

New name: Just using the same name as Canon, not so "new" after all. Also, 
presets are sometimes hard to explain to people; I think using the same name as 
Canon may help here.

Custom banks: Yes, probably most people will not use them; I'll make sure to 
make custom modes work without even entering the custom banks menu. Only those 
users who need custom banks should worry about them.

Renaming: I do not think we can easily add an icon to the menu, but I like your 
idea of using a letter.

Auto-update: definitively, if we ever code it, it will be optional.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 27 Nov 2012 at 9:28

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
An alternative approach:

We keep custom modes "separated" from scene modes: custom modes can be renamed, 
and are not assigned to any scene mode in principle. Then, users can "save" a 
custom mode from any creative mode, but can "load" them only into a scene mode; 
thus, the user can easily assign any custom mode to any creative mode.

In other words, we force (the equivalent of) our current "Use ADEP" option for 
presets, but instead of using onyl the ADEP position in the dial, we use all of 
the positions for scene modes. Obviously, each scene mode will have a different 
custom mode assigned.

As we can have as many custom modes as we need with this method, custom banks 
will probably be redundant, or even hard to understand. Besides, this is way 
easier to code, and probably easier to understand for users too.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 4:34

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Does this mean that we will just have a list of custom modes available
(more than 9), seven of which can be assigned to and loaded from a scene
mode (after initially saving from a creative mode)? If so, I think that
this makes sense.

When I first thought of custom banks, the idea of loading all presets
through the scene modes did not occur to me. I thought of banks
administered in the same way as presets are administed currently, with the
addition of switching banks in and out as required. I hadn't considered how
an independent set of presets would be applied to the scene modes, as per
issue #135.

Now that we will be using scene modes as the sole method for selecting
presets, the custom banks make a lot less sense.

Original comment by colinban...@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 5:21

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
/**
An alternative approach:

We keep custom modes "separated" from scene modes: custom modes can be renamed, 
and are not assigned to any scene mode in principle. Then, users can "save" a 
custom mode from any creative mode, but can "load" them only into a scene mode; 
thus, the user can easily assign any custom mode to any creative mode.
**/

Let me present a Pseudo-Use-Case here and let me know if I understand what you 
are thinking:

Case #1 : I want a Custom Mode named "BIF" (for Birds in Flight) with the 
following camera settings: 

Shooting Mode - Manual Exposure (M)
White Balance - AUTO
ISO - 400
Shutter speed - 1000
Aperture - f/8
Image Quality - RAW
AF Mode - AI Servo
Drive Mode - Continuous Shooting
AF Point Pattern Selection - Right most 3 points (400plus only)
Metering - Spot (400plus only)
Exposure Compensation - +1
Safety Shift - Disabled (400plus only)
And whatever other settings the camera was currently set to - both in Canon and 
400plus settings...

Custom Mode:
So I would fire up my 400D with 400plus and turn the Mode Dial to "M" and make 
all the above camera settings (both in Canon and 400plus menus).  Next I press 
DP to load up the 400plus menu and go to the menu for "Custom Modes" and choose 
to "Save" this arrangement of camera settings to a new Custom Mode.  I now 
highlight/select the newly created Custom Mode and rename it to "BIF".  Upon 
returning to this menu I now always see a Custom Mode named "BIF" with the 
above settings plus whatever else the camera was set to at the time I created 
the Custom Mode.   IE: Let's say I currently had the Beeper silenced, AF set to 
a rear button instead of half pressing the shutter button, and "Review Time" 
set to "Off" when I created it.

Load a Custom Mode:
Now to "Load" (associate) this new "BIF" Custom Mode to my "Sports" Basic Zone 
mode dial position I would use the proper 400plus menu item to "Load" the "BIF" 
Custom Mode to that mode dial position (use of an icon or [S] or spelling of 
"Sports" or something to help choose it).  Or possibly I would just turn the 
Mode Dial to the Basic Zone "Sports" position first and then from a 400plus 
menu choose to save my "BIF" Custom Mode to it.

Use of a Custom Mode:
Now when I want to use my "BIF" Custom Mode I attach my telephoto lens and fire 
up the camera with 400plus and move the Mode Dial to the "Sports" position and 
all my camera settings for "BIF" are read in and set as I defined them and I am 
ready to shoot.

Other features of Custom Mode:
I would have the option to create multiple Custom Modes, rename them, and 
"Load" (assign) them to any of the Basic Zone dial positions and use them 
similarly.  Or  I could "Unload" a previously loaded Custom Mode from a Basic 
Zone dial position and then if selected it would act as Canon intended it to 
act.  And finally the number of Custom Modes available is not yet determined 
but I could create many, rename, and remove them as I please given whatever 
limitations are imposed. - would need to be careful in renaming, removing a 
Custom Mode possibly since it may already be loaded to a Basic Zone position 
(maybe 400plus could help out in this situation).

Questions:
Q.  Would the "use" of a Custom Mode in such way be sticky after camera power 
off?  Meaning after powering off camera and powering it back on the next day 
while set at the Sports dial position or moving the dial to the Sports position 
from another Mode Dial position - would my "BIF" settings be enabled 
automatically then or would I need to do something in a 400plus menu again 
first?

Q.  After the initial "Load" of my "BIF" Custom Mode to the Basic Zone "Sports" 
dial position (associating it) if I re-enabled the Beeper sound, reverted AF 
from a rear button press to half-press of shutter button, and set "Review Time" 
to 4 seconds  afterwards to shoot in let's say Av Mode for a while and then 
switched back to "Sports" for "BIF" because the birds started flying over would 
the Beeper, Rear button AF, and Review Time become re-enabled too (because 
really they are part of the "BIF" Custom Mode)?  Please ;)

Q.  Once I turn the mode dial to the "Sports" position - would there be a way 
to visually know (from the LCD, or somehow) that I am currently not using the 
Canon version of "Sports" mode but my "BIF" Custom Mode instead?

Sorry to be so long-winded here...

Original comment by mike.guf...@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 7:31

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Thanks for your use case, I think it may help others understand the concept; it 
explains quite accurately how I view custom modes.

Just one comment: to load a custom mode, I like the second approach (move the 
dial to a scene mode and then assign / load a custom mode to that scene mode) 
better; it feels more natural to me.

Q1: Yes, keeping custom modes after a power off is a must; mostly because the 
camera may auto power off in the middle of a session, and we do not want to get 
a surprise when it comes back on (this is already implemented in the current 
presets, by the way).

Q2: That is the auto-update feature I explained on the first comment. In 
principle, no: most changes made while the custom mode is active will not be 
restored if you leave such custom mode and come back; you would need to enter 
400plus' menu and update the custom mode. But I'll try to investigate how we 
could do what you comment.

Q3: Yes, rear display will show the camera as in M mode, an a small "BIF" will 
be displayed below the "M" (already implemented too, but not yet released).

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 8:18

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
> Does this mean that we will just have a list of custom modes available
(more than 9), seven of which can be assigned to and loaded from a scene
mode (after initially saving from a creative mode)? If so, I think that
this makes sense.

Yes, exactly.

> Now that we will be using scene modes as the sole method for selecting
presets, the custom banks make a lot less sense.

Only reason to use custom banks is for users who have a lot of custom modes, 
and need a method to assign them all to scene modes quickly. For example, you 
could have a "Party" custom bank, with custom modes "Indoor party", "Sunny 
outdoors party", "Party with fireworks", ...; then another custom bank called 
"Walk in the woods" with custom modes "Birds", "Threes", "Landscapes", "..."; 
then you need a quick method to change from "Party" custom modes to "Walk in 
the woods" custom modes. But I'm not sure this isn't going too far! Will 
probably not be implemented for a first version.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 8:28

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Awesome...

Original comment by mike.guf...@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 8:37

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
"Only reason to use custom banks is for users who have a lot of custom
modes, and need a method to assign them all to scene modes quickly. For
example, you could have a "Party" custom bank, with custom modes "Indoor
party", "Sunny outdoors party", "Party with fireworks", ...; then another
custom bank called "Walk in the woods" with custom modes "Birds", "Threes",
"Landscapes", "..."; then you need a quick method to change from "Party"
custom modes to "Walk in the woods" custom modes. But I'm not sure this
isn't going too far! Will probably not be implemented for a first version."

I actually had a statement to this effect in my previous response, but
removed it because of the coding complications I envisioned. In my case, I
have a few astronomy  presets on a separate card that would be useful to
use together. On the other hand, I can only use one preset at a time, so I
can use a single dial position and save each preset (custom mode) to that
position as needed. Not as efficient as switching between astro modes
loaded together, but good enough for now.

Original comment by colinban...@gmail.com on 29 Nov 2012 at 8:40

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
[deleted comment]
GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Current status:

 * Presets are loaded at AUTO mode, and cannot be loaded at any other mode; A-Dep is no longer special.
 * Issue 165 has been done: presets act now as separate modes, and do not interfere with normal modes.
 * Documentation has not been updated; I'll do that after all the changes have been finished.

Pending tasks:

 * Assign different presets to other scene modes.
 * Increase number of available presets.
 * Rename "presets" to "custom modes".
 * Document it all.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 18 Dec 2012 at 11:26

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Update:

 * Presets' sub-menus are now context sensitive: first option is "Save" in creative modes, and "Load" or "Free" in AUTO mode.
 * There are now 16 presets available.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 26 Dec 2012 at 12:36

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Update:

 * Presets can now be assigned to any auto mode; each auto mode can have a different preset assigned, or no preset assigned at all.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 26 Dec 2012 at 11:42

GoogleCodeExporter commented 9 years ago
Presets have been completely renamed to "custom modes", and the "User Guide 
Preview" updated; in my humble opinion, the work here has been finished, at 
least for the next release. In the future, we might raise the limit of sixteen 
custom modes, and investigate how to auto-update them.

Original comment by eduardo....@gmail.com on 2 Jan 2013 at 10:35