dcs-liberation / dcs_liberation

DCS World dynamic campaign.
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Total number of aircraft limitation per type and faction #1471

Open Wawar9 opened 2 years ago

Wawar9 commented 2 years ago

In order to have a better representation of the airwar pace in mid and long terms, I would be interresting to be able to limit the number of planes per model, per faction.

The point is to be able to simulate the "stock" of existing and posseded airplanes by a faction, at a specific period of time. It would adds a layer of depth in the "attrition" simulation, more natural/realistic than the classic income multiplier management.

1 : In the factions specifications, have the ability to set a max number of buyable specific plane. (Exemple, Russia 1990, Mig 31, max 500) 2 : Maybe simulate kind of a "faction production capibility", represented by a refill of that "stock" over time, at a configurable rate. (Exemple : +1 Mig 31 buyable every 2 turns)

Tinchus2009 commented 2 years ago

But why do this? by putting this kind of limits is how you would turn things not realistic. The limit to the number and type of aircrafts is already there: the money you can spent. It is the money that will put you a limit into buying the most expensive or better aircrafts or its numbers... if you buy planes, then you can buy ground units. It is the money the limit and I think that is the best way to put limits. Also you would affect strategy by putting hard limits.

Wawar9 commented 2 years ago

For realism, precisely.

With the actual income limitation, as long as you have the money, you can buy an infinite number of assets. But in real life, assets doesn't take ONLY money to be build, it takes times too.

Also, IRL a country have a LIMITED availability of assets, with which he has to deal. In the event of a total war, it is obvious that the production lines would run at full capacity, if the economic situation allows it, but it gonna be limited by his production lines capacity.

In a Liberation campaign that has been running for a while, after hundreds of air losses... The fact that a faction with a lot of money still can buy planes by tens may be unrealistic, depending on factors like : number of aircraft built per aircraft model at that time, production lines rate.

We are more in the "re-enactment" side, but I am convinced that this is a function that will interest anyone interested in reproducing / theorycrafting a conflict.

By trying to be brief : Country have limited stocks of airplane and a limited assembly speed. Money ≠ production rate.

A setting making it possible to set a maximum number of aircraft per aircraft model would be interesting. And why not allow the refill of that "stock" over time, at a configurable rate, to simulate a more realistic production line rate.

Slowdive1123 commented 2 years ago

Consider money an abstraction that represents the entire production capacity of a country. If you want their actual output to be lower, then just lower their money. Having said that, it could be interesting to give the AI hints in the faction file as to the proportions of aircraft to buy so in game we could see a scaled down version of the real world country. However, that could create issues with countries like the USA and Russia who have a large number of aircraft types and we could end up with fleets of aircraft with 1 of each type, which wouldn't be very realistic either.

A compromise might be something along the lines of defining a scenario where you specify a few types and ratios.

jchcommun commented 2 years ago

The choices made by the AI when it comes to buying planes or ground forces are an important concern for me too.

Especially in a counterinsurgency campaign, or in a campaign against "weak" countries, the enemy AI should mainly buy ground forces, but at the moment it seems to favor buying aircrafts even when it's strongly outnumbered on the ground.

For example, I made a counterinsurgency campaign in Syria, with a custom-made air-capable insurgent faction (I just added MiG-21s to the original faction). In this campaign, insurgents only own 1 airfield (Jirah).

At campaign start, if I cut down its budget to $500 M, I would expect the AI to buy enough ground forces to face a possible assault, and only a few aircrafts. Instead, it buys 28 aircrafts (= max number of parking spots at Jirah AFB), and only 13 ground vehicles. This ratio, particularly in an asymmetrical scenario, is not realistic at all.

So I think any means of tweaking the choices of the AI regarding its purchases of ground and air forces would be welcome: it could be ratio parameters, or number limits, or a combination of both, maybe.

Penco09 commented 2 years ago

And in any case, having more options to tweak allied and enemy resupply capabilities offers to have more scenarios. I think any option allowing for a more directed use of the money is beneficial.