Greater Blessing Threat

[TheTitan94]

I am posting here based on the issue of Greater Blessing of Kings and possibly other blessings threat meters during fights. The suggested value of one Greater Blessing of Kings cast should be 60 threat (based on the level the spell was learned) per target of the blessing, divided by each enemy in the fight. In practice, the meters seem to not be able to properly track the paladins threat generation based on having aggro when the meter says you are not at the top or even in the top 10. When testing and in a raid environment, it has been observed that the meters are not accurate, but for what reason. It can occur on single target bosses, so potentially the split threat between enemies is not a factor. The attached image clearly shows a paladin with 1140 threat pull aggro against a 1400 threat ally in melee. Greater Blessing of Kings was cast 10 times on 2 targets for 60 threat per target, multiplied by 1.9 modifier of Righteous Fury, divided by the two enemies. Based on the current understanding of threat generation, this should result in 1140 threat which it shows, but this seems to be inaccurate since the tanking paladin has pulled aggro of the enemies with the lower threat. In the image, multiple threat meters are shown, indicating that it is likely a library issue. Good reference of this happening are also found in Askalon and Holyfrog paladin raid tanking videos. They currently use a Greater Blessing tracker. The confusing thing about this is that the tracker simply calculates the number of blessing casts and the targets cast on and assumes 60 threat per target and multiplied by 1.9 for Righteous Fury, to result in 114 threat per GBoK target. This is confusing because the tracker clearly shows they are top threat, but the meter does not. I am not certain where this discrepancy comes from. I plan to do a few more tests to confirm that GBoK should in fact produce 60 threat and if in fact Righteous Fury should multiply the threat by 1.9 modifier. Then maybe additionally if the threat should be multiplied correctly per target.

Updates:

• (tests inconclusive) Judgement of Wisdom and suspected Judgement of Light procs generate more threat than is expected or depicted on threat meters. Expected 56 threat with RF from 59 mana proc, but ally pulled around 103.5 more threat than expected (318 instead of 214.5), this predicts my threat at 286, which is 91 extra threat from somewhere, possibly the mana regen.
• Casting Seals generate threat but do not according to meters.
• GBoK single target and single enemy pulls off when expected at 60 and 114 with RF.
• GBoK has pulled aggro of enemy at 1140 threat, when ally had 1400 threat, when there were 2 enemies. GBoK threat is also incorrect when on single target bosses in raid environment, so not only a multi target issue.
• The GBoK that you use that enters you into combat does not generate threat or pull the enemy from the current target.
• GBoK does not generate threat for targets hit who are not in combat with the enemy, but on the meter it does show as threat being generated.
• GBoK after many tests, 6 of which I discuss below, shows a behavior that implies it is not having its threat split between enemies in the open world that are around level 55.
• The meter does not track threat of GBoK properly in a single target raid environment. Chromaggus one target, buffing warriors while in melee range, does not show proper threat on the meter. I have a weak aura that simply shows threat per cast of GBoK, and all it does is count the casts of GBoK, and based on how many allies I cast it on, tells me my threat. Which was not being properly tracked by the meter. If the meter was counting each GBoK cast and multiplying it by allies, then it would show a much higher number than it did.
• I have observed a more accurate depiction of threat on trash in MC with split threat than on single target boss fights.

Look Below in comments for details of some of these findings.

[dfherr]

You can try out the new api with version 2.20 of threatclassic2 on the ptr. maybe that acually gives some insight (that we could use if they decide to disable the api again for whatever reason). You need to be infight to see any threat with the new api.

[dfherr]

So did any of you observe what the actual behavior of the blessing does, especially in multi target scenarios?

[mspk7305]

Seems to be full blessing threat per target. I ended up with all the majordomo adds tonight, threat at full values expected per cast.

On Thu, Jul 23, 2020, 1:34 PM Dennis-Florian Herr notifications@github.com wrote:

So did any of you observe what the actual behavior of the blessing does, especially in multi target scenarios?

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[mikekochis]

@mspk7305 do you have logs from your domo fight?

We had plenty of data, logs and experience from before the API even came out to confirm that blessings are split between targets. There is no reason that should not still be the case - and everything I've raided since the threat API being released continues to support that case.

The only nuance that remains is how exactly it is split. With the new API out, it's really moot to try to solve it, but the concern was whether threat was built on a target if the buffed friendly was not yet on the threat table of target.

[mspk7305]

I did not log last night, but this is not new behavior, and I have months of logs on fights like Domo, Gar, Jindo, and so on to back that up. The "confirmation" that threat is split has always been (in my opinion) based on user error, and I back that up with the fact that I have assisted many palains in correcting their AOE threat output with a few simple steps:

1. dont use pallypower to bless in combat. its not reliable and half the time it will do a single target regular blessing if it casts at all

2. make sure your buffed targets are all in range for your blessing and its chain

3. make sure your buffed targets are in combat - this really only applies in a few encounters but it makes a difference

4. dont expect to have all the threat in the world with a single cast, especially if you are out of melee range of the mobs you want- you have to overcome top melee threat by >30%

On Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 7:55 AM mikekochis notifications@github.com wrote:

@mspk7305 https://github.com/mspk7305 do you have logs from your domo fight?

We had plenty of data, logs and experience from before the API even came out to confirm that blessings are split between targets. There is no reason that should not still be the case - and everything I've raided since the threat API being released continues to support that case.

The only nuance that remains is how exactly it is split. With the new API out, it's really moot to try to solve it, but the concern was whether threat was built on a target if the buffed friendly was not yet on the threat table of target.

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[fusionpit]

I had tried recording threat splitting for GBoK specifically on the 1.13.5 PTR when it was new. On the same three mobs at the start of the exact same Stockades instance, GBoK would give either 2000, 4000, or 6000 threat to each mob per cast. The named mobs also had their own "bucket" of threat, in that a GBoK had threat split between them but not trash mobs. In addition, I saw a maximum of 23 mobs per "bucket" with remaining mobs in their own "bucket". Finally, mobs that had some sort of social aggro in the open world would split full threat between themselves but ones that don't (e.g., bears, crocs, spiders) each had full threat applied per cast.

[skeetro95]

I know I am late to the party, been pala tanking since P1 of classic and have spent tons of time trying to sort out a lot of inconsistencies. Just stumbled on this, but will post math after work today proving the point. Threat generation as a paladin is inconsistent, and I am not referring to RNG resists ect but actual threat values applied based on a same target (for this example, exorcism crit with RF on) Bonus points if any of y'all know the DM paladin glitch, where all your net threat becomes 0 constantly :D meaning anyone can come up and rip a mob with even a single tick of R1 consecration or any action when I have been wailing on a mob for any amount of time.

It's nice to discover the math behind this, what isn't nice is finding inconsistency only to be explained by "the blizzard god smiled favorably on me today"

Have reported these issues to Blizz mutiple times, they just ignore me tickets and bug reports though unfortunately xd

edit a majority of the time, threat does generate how it should. Your guys math is off because you arent considering melee/caster range of threat gen. The final ratio is a combination of your blessing targets' position in reference to the enemy mob (melee or caster) and your own position in reference to that mob. Will post my roughly year and a half of trying to figure it out math to support what I am saying